Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 14, 2014 Members Posted January 14, 2014 I get a daily email with a scripture from netAdventist (I believe that's a software program which belongs to the SDA church). Today's scripture was I John 4:20-21 NIV: "If someone says, 'I love God,' but hates a Christian brother or sister, that person is a liar; for if we don’t love people we can see, how can we love God, whom we cannot see? And he has given us this command: Those who love God must also love their Christian brothers and sisters." My first reaction was "whooooaaaaa.....that's not how I remembered it!" What do you all think of the NIV version? Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 14, 2014 Administrators Posted January 14, 2014 I think someone has taken some liberties with the NIV. I looked it up in my NIV and that's not how it reads. However the Amplified Bible adds similar modifying words in brackets to "brother" [believing] or [in Christ]. It may be implied that the ones we call brother and sister are fellow believers. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Administrators Naomi Posted January 14, 2014 Administrators Posted January 14, 2014 In comparison 1 John 4:20-21 King James Version (KJV) 20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also. ~~~~~~~~~~~`` 1 John 4:20-21 New International Version (NIV) 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister. ~~~~~~~~~~ Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 14, 2014 Author Members Posted January 14, 2014 I went back to the email. I misread the version. It was the NLT (New Living Translation). sorry 'bout that... Still, it makes me wonder...in the New Testament references to "brothers" and "sisters," were the authors only referring to *Christian* ones? I just can't buy that... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
LifeHiscost Posted January 14, 2014 Posted January 14, 2014 What if we took KJV really literally and make it one's blood-brother? He who wants to follow Jesus must hate his parents and (blood) brothers. Maybe John really meant Christian fellow-believer 'brother'? OTOH we have this, "Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away. “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,"Matthew 5:42-44 NKJV Since I count no man my enemy, it appears I've not been tried with enough severity to exercise that level of control. It will not be long before that amount will be essential for anyone choosing to serve Jesus, in my opinion, and already is in other parts of the globe as well as other geographical locations of the U.S., than that which I live. That's why I rest in these promises. "This day the Lord will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you and take your head from you. And this day I will give the carcasses of the camp of the Philistines to the birds of the air and the wild beasts of the earth, that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel. Then all this assembly shall know that the Lord does not save with sword and spear; for the battle is the Lord’s"1 Samuel 17:46-47 NKJV "For we are not fighting against flesh-and-blood enemies, but against evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against mighty powers in this dark world, and against evil spirits in the heavenly places. Therefore, put on every piece of God’s armor so you will be able to resist the enemy in the time of evil. Then after the battle you will still be standing firm." Ephesians 6:12-13 NLT God blesses! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 14, 2014 Administrators Posted January 14, 2014 I went back to the email. I misread the version. It was the NLT (New Living Translation). sorry 'bout that... Still, it makes me wonder...in the New Testament references to "brothers" and "sisters," were the authors only referring to *Christian* ones? I just can't buy that... I think it is implied from the context because of the long tradition of referring to fellow believers as brother so-and-so or sister so-and-so. That seems to have been the custom in the NT church to be brothers and sisters in Christ. But I also don't think it was intended to exclude anyone or basically give permission to hate someone not a believer. In that light it is not unreasonable to read more broadly that if we are all God's children we are all brothers and sisters in God's eyes. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
LifeHiscost Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Quote: In that light it is not unreasonable to read more broadly that if we are all God's children we are all brothers and sisters in God's eyes. "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not." 1 John 3:2 KJV This above would seem to indicate not all are considered as God's children. The info below indicates a father excluding many from the family of God, unless they find repentance. "Yes, I realize that you are descendants of Abraham. And yet some of you are trying to kill me because there’s no room in your hearts for my message. I am telling you what I saw when I was with my Father. But you are following the advice of your father.” “Our father is Abraham!” they declared. “No,” Jesus replied, “for if you were really the children of Abraham, you would follow his example."John 8:37-39 NLT "You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." John 8:44 NASB God cares! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Administrators debbym Posted January 15, 2014 Administrators Posted January 15, 2014 the devil and his followers are no less God's loved creation. this does not mean what they make of themselves was God's doing, but he created them, and has a love for them that will never cease to exist. Love is eternal. so children do reflect their parents, and God's children are his as far as they reflect their parents. there is not one human being that by nature does not reflect sin, and father of sin. it is only by the new birth, and miracle of God that we do anything else. but those who believed they were holy and privileged children of God who had not been born again were shocked with this news. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
CoAspen Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Agree, so I wonder why we spend so much time trying to exclude people?? Quote
LifeHiscost Posted January 15, 2014 Posted January 15, 2014 Agree, so I wonder why we spend so much time trying to exclude people?? Didn't know anyone was trying to do that, but here is the record from the beginning of the battle between those who will be and those who won't be around eternally, not my opinion or spin, and some words from Jesus directly. That doesn't mean one doesn't have to make up their own mind whether they fit into the categories described. It is written one only needs the faith of a mustard seed to eliminate the same slavery as the son of perdition chose. God gives the warning. We have the freedom to heed it or not. "After this I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven! And the first voice which I had heard addressing me like [the calling of] a war trumpet said, Come up here, and I will show you what must take place in the future."Revelation 4:2 AMP brackets theirs' LHC "And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days. And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."Revelation 12:6-8 KJV "Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me."John 8:43-45 NASB "“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing."John 15:5 NKJV God andJesus care and save!! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
CoAspen Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 As usual, not on topic.......>....but here is the record from the beginning of the battle between those who will be and those who won't be around eternally, not my opinion or spin, and some words from Jesus directly.< John 4:20-21 New International Version (NIV) 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister. This above is the topic...... Looking for exclusions, as I mentioned! Quote
LifeHiscost Posted January 16, 2014 Posted January 16, 2014 Quote: "You don't want to know the Truth, you want to know the truth as you understand it." " While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled."John 17:12 KJV Jesus saves! God cares! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
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