Biblical Inspiration to Dress More Modestly

[phkrause]

By Peggy Bowes

In an era of low-cut tops, short skirts and tight clothing, dressing modestly can seem rather counter-cultural. Yet modest dress doesn’t have to mean denim jumpers or frumpy dresses. With a little creativity, it is possible to dress both fashionably and modestly. Prayerfully read the following Bible verses to find a little inspiration to think more carefully about the way you dress.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Gallerie..._term=yahoo.com

[Gregory Matthews]

Modesty is culturally determined.

I once lived in a country where the citizens were deeply offended at the American males who climb their mountains bare-chested.

Yet, in their public lives, they did a lot of things that we Americans would not understand and consider to be immodest.

[Green Cochoa]

Modesty is culturally determined.

While this may be somewhat true relative to society, it is not true relative to God's Word, nor to human nature.

If you live in Taiwan, you can practically see "live porn" just by walking/driving down the street. This "culture" does not make such behavior acceptable in God's sight.

There's no need to be bare-chested when it offends others. The Bible is clear about Christians not being stumblingstones for others. Furthermore, Christians should promote the highest standards of modesty in dress.

Where should Christians look to find their standards? to culture? or to God's Word?

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

Green said:

Quote:

There's no need to be bare-chested when it offends others.

Of course.

But, as cultures differ how would an American even know how offensive it was for a male climbing a mountain to be bare-chested.

Green, my comment was to illustrate the extent to which culture influences the term modesty.

[Gregory Matthews]

Green said:

Quote:

If you live in Taiwan, you can practically see "live porn" just by walking/driving down the street.

O.K. If you say so. I am not going to debate you on what you have said.

On the assumption that you are male, when walking down the street in Taiwan, God expects your, regardless of the live porn, to conduct yourself in a manner appropriate to that of a male follower of Christ. That is your responsibility. How you conduct yourself is not the responsibility of the live porn that you are looking at.

[Green Cochoa]

Green said:

Quote:

If you live in Taiwan, you can practically see "live porn" just by walking/driving down the street.

O.K. If you say so. I am not going to debate you on what you have said.

On the assumption that you are male, when walking down the street in Taiwan, God expects your, regardless of the live porn, to conduct yourself in a manner appropriate to that of a male follower of Christ. That is your responsibility. How you conduct yourself is not the responsibility of the live porn that you are looking at.

That is correct. The point I was making had little, however, to do with the live porn. It had much to do with the fact that "culture" should never be our criterion for dress standards.

The Bible gives us some good standards. We should follow those. I do not accept your view that modesty is culturally determined. In God's sight, modesty is rarely found in the cultures of today.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

Green, I clearly believe that Christians should live by Biblical standards and not those of the world. That applies to all rules/principles of living.

But, right or wrong, the world has standards which are culturally determined. Christians should not offend the standards of the world that are not in conflict with the Bible. For and example, my comment about bare-chested males climbing a mountain, which you agreed with me on that.

Let me give you another example: There once was a SDA Conference, [NOTE: I do not know if what I say is its present position.] that would disfellowship members who wore blue jeans in public.

Was that a Biblical position? You tell me. Yes, you might say that it was due to cultural issues? Or you might not? I do not know.

But, notwithstanding culture, is that a Biblical position?

[Green Cochoa]

Gregory,

It might be a biblical position if it were related to genders. You did not specify any details. But the Bible is clear that a woman should not wear that which pertains to a man and vice versa. Unfortunately, the world's custom has blurred the gender lines and made it "cultural" for any woman to wear men's clothing. (Most men still do not run around in clearly feminine attire, but the reverse is hardly true nowadays.) Jeans were initially men's clothing, and they are still more suitable to the kind of work more often associated with men. (This forum has had vigorous discussions on related topics before.)

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

Green: I stated that the bare-chested people were male.

I stated that the Conference would disfellowship members.

That statement was clear: Any SDA seen in public, wearing blue jeans would be disfellowshiped. No gender needed to be stated.

[Green Cochoa]

Gregory,

The word "any" that you just added made the statement clear. That word was not originally present in your post, leaving things rather unclear--at least to me. I'm sure it was clear in your mind.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

O. K. Green. I will give you that.

Green: You are OK!

[debbym]

Quote:

Modesty is culturally determined.

And God sees and understands each culture and what is significant in that culture as he reveals himself to individuals within each different culture. he sees every difference in language, experience, and every kind of pain we are in or not in.

He is able to consider the circumstances of our birth, where our parents came from what their sins and the sins of their parents were.

God is good to all, he pours compassion on all of His creation. He always keeps His promises, and is gracious in everything he does. Psalms 145.

He understands how men may struggle with their imagination and impure thoughts, and how women may not grasp this, or indeed grasp this and how it may effect how they dress.

He knows how when individuals are surrendered to Him His Spirit fills them and men under the influence of the Holy Spirit are able to keep themselves pure minded whatever they are exposed to. The Spirit is able to lift us above our flesh.

And He also knows the masses who do not know Christ often live in culture wars, enforcing and expanding the rule of their own culture. And his grace is poured on them also.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

But the Bible is clear that a woman should not wear that which pertains to a man and vice versa. Unfortunately, the world's custom has blurred the gender lines and made it "cultural" for any woman to wear men's clothing. (Most men still do not run around in clearly feminine attire, but the reverse is hardly true nowadays.) Jeans were initially men's clothing, and they are still more suitable to the kind of work more often associated with men.

Women have worn trousers for just as long (or longer) than men. This is an artifact made ca 470 BC (as determined by the British Museum), and depicts a woman wearing garments including trousers. It can be seen at the British Museum Upper floor, room 69: Greek and Roman life, catalog vase B 673.

[debbym]

Quote:

Women have worn trousers for just as long (or longer) than men. This is an artifact made ca 470 BC (as determined by the British Museum), and depicts a woman wearing garments including trousers. It can be seen at the British Museum Upper floor, room 69: Greek and Roman life, catalog vase B 673.

and men have been wearing robes and skirts through all ancient times, and still in various places, without being considered wearing woman's garb.

[M. T. Cross]

Kilts are the win!

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Women have worn trousers for just as long (or longer) than men.

For you men, who tell us that women should not wear men's clothing, I have a challenge for you:

Take a pair of trousers that have been tailored to fit the female figure and attempt to put them on. Oh!

I will grant you that there are probably a few exceptions.

But, as a general rule, trousers tailored to fit a female do not fit a male.

Try it if you wish.

[pierrepaul]

Unfortunately, the world's custom has blurred the gender lines and made it "cultural" for any woman to wear men's clothing.

I've been on this planet for almost 50 years and have lived in 8 countries, and have never seen a culture where women wearing men's clothing was common. In North America today, if you went out onto the streets of any city, I doubt more than 1 in 10,000 women dressed like a man.

[bonnie]

I've been on this planet for almost 50 years and have lived in 8 countries, and have never seen a culture where women wearing men's clothing was common. In North America today, if you went out onto the streets of any city, I doubt more than 1 in 10,000 women dressed like a man.

How many men would be willing to do chores on a farm in a dress?

Try a MN winter at 20 below at 2:00 a.m to check for livestock births in the barn and having to remain for an hour or two in a dress. Jean,long pants and more look very attractive.

[fccool]

Originally Posted By: Green Cochoa

Unfortunately, the world's custom has blurred the gender lines and made it "cultural" for any woman to wear men's clothing.

I've been on this planet for almost 50 years and have lived in 8 countries, and have never seen a culture where women wearing men's clothing was common. In North America today, if you went out onto the streets of any city, I doubt more than 1 in 10,000 women dressed like a man.

I'm with you on that one. It's an incredibly ignorant statement... I can't emphasize it enough.

Even though pants are pants, women's pants are not the same as men's pants. To say that women wearing pants is an indicator of them wearing men's clothes is actually indicative of male chauvinism IMO. Men don't claim exclusivity over any clothing items. It's like claiming socks as a "male wear". It's fairly ridiculous. Any male wear can be feminized.

[Bravus]

Is it only women who need to dress modestly?

[Gregory Matthews]

In the 1800s when EGW wrote much, what was the common meaning of the word "modest."

Note: You will not find the answer to this in a traditional dictionary. To find the meaning in the 1800s one must use a historical dictionary.

[fccool]

Modesty is a fairly relevant term IMO, and has to be contextualized by the culture that's in question.

There are principles of modesty, but conservative legalism takes it a bit too far, and I'm not talking about merely Christian legalism. EG White took it a bit too far with the reform dress. It's one of the ugliest outfits I've seen in my life, and if you are talking about clothing not being deterrent of looking at you as a person... you can achieve the same thing by having people thinking "What in the world what he/she thinking"

Clothes these days is a way of communicating who you are, or the way you want to be perceived.

I think that moderation is a better principle in this instance. You can find the extremes and adhere somewhere in the middle.

Here's a good example:

[LifeHiscost]

Modesty is a fairly relevant term IMO, and has to be contextualized by the culture that's in question.

There are principles of modesty, but conservative legalism takes it a bit too far, and I'm not talking about merely Christian legalism. EG White took it a bit too far with the reform dress.

Clothes these days is a way of communicating who you are, or the way you want to be perceived.

I think that moderation is a better principle in this instance. You can find the extremes and adhere somewhere in the middle.

If culture were the motivating reason for dress then perhaps going back to the days of the barbarians would reveal the more proper dress code.

Some 20 years ago shortly after moving to our present location, two states removed from our previous home, my wife and I were walking past a beach area located by a river where numerous individuals normally went swimming, especially in the hot summer. It was right about that time when removing the tops of the bikini was, when sunbathing, becoming the act of bravado for the most daring of young women. Since this was a smaller town removed more northerly, it hadn't caught on yet. However, considering the amount of male observers who found reason to meander over to the best platform for close observation, I would suggest the principle for dressing without quite enough to go around is not based on modesty seen as a necessity.

I'll leave a Word later to show the best place to find what meets a higher order of decorum.

God cares! Jesus saves!

[fccool]

Quote:

If culture were the motivating reason for dress then perhaps going back to the days of the barbarians would reveal the more proper dress code.

I don't understand how you come to that conclusion, and I really can't come up any logical explanation as to why you would think that's the case. Care to explain?

1) Cultures evolve their collective morality and preferences. Our present culture would find barbarian dress as ridiculous as they would find ours. Of itself it doesn't call for any particular culture to step outside of itself and dress like the other.

Arabic culture is extremely modest in their dress. If you dress like an Arab in US, many people may find it odd and disturbing.

Their idea of modesty is relative to their culture, just like your idea of modesty is relative to yours.

2) There's no indication that dress of barbarians were immodest . How do you figure that it was?

Quote:

Some 20 years ago shortly after moving to our present location, two states removed from our previous home, my wife and I were walking past a beach area located by a river where numerous individuals normally went swimming.... I would suggest the principle for dressing without quite enough to go around is not based on modesty seen as a necessity.

What does this story about daring young people has to do with dressing modestly? Swimming is in a totally different realm when it comes to dress. Needless to say that most people on this planet don't swim, or do that very rarely.

How do you jump from relevant and culture-driven dress expectations ... to a nudist beach? Is that even a relevant example in a context of our cultural expectation of modesty?

Quote:

I'll leave a Word later to show the best place to find what meets a higher order of decorum.

That can be a problem with fundamentalism - the worst case scenarios can be conflated with "the world". If you think that in US culture it's acceptable to swim topless then you should really get out more often.

In my 3 years of life living in Miami... I went to the beach 100s of times. Do you know how many times I've seen topless women swimming - Zero . I'm sure there are, but it's a lot less common than you think it is.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Welcome to Club Adventist Nudist Colony.... where folks just let it all hang out...