Mission Catalyst Network

[LynnDel]

Hey ya'll,

Is anyone here going to the Mission Catalyst Convocation in Redding this next weekend? I thought it would be an interesting event to check out.

LynnDel

[Jeannieb43]

Didn't know about it.

Please tell us more.

[LynnDel]

This is the info I have:

Awaken '05 - First Annual Convocation to Reaffirm Our Faith and Challenge Our Personal Spirituality

November 3-5 (Thursday morning through Sabbath afternoon)

Redding, California

Speakers:

John McLarty "Tools of Grace" - How do the unique doctrines that Adventists believe enhance our spirituality? They make sense in the head, but how about the heart?

Dennis Pumford - "Revelation Decoded"

Other Topics:

"The Rabbi's Dust" - Why did Jesus choose the guys He did? Would he choose us? Suppose He did. . .

"Focus on the 318" - Within ten years, God will raise up a Mission Catalyst church in each of the metro areas in the United States - and hundreds of churches elsewhere. How creative can we be in keeping this priority on the front burner?

"What's Next for Mission Catalyst?" - Shaping the future of mission in what we hope are the last days.

"Serving Redding" - If we are His hands and feet, why not show it?

Register by calling 1-360-835-8748 (there is no fee, but registration is needed)

Their website is: http://www.missioncatalyst.org/

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I know little about Mission Catalyst other than it is somewhat controversial to some people because of its organization (outside the denomination). I withhold my personal judgement until I know more.

LynnDel

[lazarus]

In my "Is this a threat" thread I tried to raise Mission C but I guess I bought it up in a kinda tangental way.

There is a pastor I know very well who is about to leave his congregation to join their network and plant a church.

[darlene]

I don't know much about them but, could this be similar to a GC session for their group?

[Jeannieb43]

I have duties here in my own church this Sabbath, but I'm very interested in what you learn at the meeting in Redding, if anyone here will be attending. I'd like to hear about it.

And Lazarus, I wonder what the motivation is for a pastor to leave his post and go church planting with Mission Catalyst? Do you know? Is he unhappy with the SDA organizational structure?

I'm favorably impressed by the M.C. goals and organization. They spend all their budget on the "end user" -- the local church -- rather than on "top-heavy" organizational expense. And I don't think they "leave the church" except for their payroll. I think they teach good doctrine.

I'm curious to know more.

[lazarus]

Jeannieb43 said:

Quote:

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And Lazarus, I wonder what the motivation is for a pastor to leave his post and go church planting with Mission Catalyst? Do you know? Is he unhappy with the SDA organizational structure?

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He has come to believe that the church structure is no longer currently configured to reach lost people. In fact it hinders the work of the church. The evidence is that we are not winning many lost people to the church.

I think if we are honest many of our churches are geared towards maintaining the status quo caterig to the needs of our members.

If you look at a church's budget and calendar you can see what its priorities are. This pastor friend feels that it is his caling to reach lost people and he can't do that eefectively in the SDA church as it operates now!

[K]

Mission Catalyst is not having a GC like get together. It is for renewal, and a way for Mission Catalyst people to network.

K

[Jeannieb43]

That pastor must be brave, to go without being on a salary. Don't they have to be self-supporting, when they start out??

I'm totally supportive of this effort, by the way.

[Fran]

Don't worry. Their salary should go WAY UP.

The congregation will set their salary. That will depend on if he preaches what they want to hear. He will of course bend, because his salary demands it! The congregation will say JUMP! Then the pastor will SMILE and say "OF COURSE, HOW HIGH DO I NEED TO JUMP? DO YOU WANT ME TO CLAP MY HANDS AND SHOUT GLORY TOO? HUH? HUH?"

At a church where I was treasurer, they received at the lowest $60,000-$90,000 for a given month of Tithe and Conference Funds. The Church Budget lowest received was $21,000-$25,000. $60,000 - $90,000 is sent to the conference. $21,000 - $25,000 stays and sustains the church. The Church Budget is usually not met for all 12 months, so there is usually a short fall at the end of the year.

MCN allows the church to receive the $60,000 + $21,000 = $81,000 and send MCN only 10% of the total received, or $81,000 X .10 = $8,100. The church keeps $81,000 - $8,100 = $72,900 per month if the least is received.

Now look at the high end of the least amount received. $90,000 (-10%) - $9,000 = $81,000 that stays in the local church instead of a mere $25,000. Of course the pastor wants a raise! They want all of world evangelism to stay in their local neighborhood. Their church will get a significant raise. Right?

Before, the church got 100% of the tithe. This fellow wants that tithe to stay with the local church. The $8,100 - $9,000 sent to MCN goes for the MCN and builds up to help build a new churches. And of course, Ron Gladden must receive his share of all of this. Who is it that sets his salary? Hum??? Let’s see; say 10 churches turn in $9,000 per month. ($90,000) 10 Churches send in $3,500 ($35,000) and 10 churches send in $1,500 ($15,000). That would be $90,000 + $35,000 + 15,000 = MCN gets $140,000. 10% of that is $14,000 per month. That isn’t so much income is it? In fact it is so low, I am not sure I could actually live on that. That is only $168,000 per year. Yes, we need more churches sending in 10%. Let us grow! I scratch your back, you scratch mine!

In the mean time the world missions and church plantings of the SDA church is being flushed down the toilet. I do not believe this is the solution that God would prescribe. (Disclaimer: Mind you, I do not always do what I feel I should do at times too, I live in a very glass house right now.)

Yes, I believe we need change as a church, but this is a very selfish way to keep the tithes in the local church, and in the pocket of Ron Gladden, so they never reach the World Church.

I am against MCN. I believe it is an apparent take over move. The greatest pyramid scheme I have ever seen. Just my opinion, mind you.

[Gregory Matthews]

Fran:

Where do you get information that supports you illustration as to the salary of Ron G?

[Stan]

When any group follows this formula - - - then watch out

1) A passionate and inspiring "justification by faith sermon"

2) We belong to a great Church BUT.... then they explain why it is not... and why they are so much better

3) Send me your tithe...

Stan

I have posted this before... it is not something i created for this...

[LynnDel]

I went, Stan, and I didn't see that focus. It was a very spiritual, positive weekend (no criticism of the church), and I am praying that God will be with them in their endeavors. They are supportive of the SDA denomination, but they want to focus on reaching the unchurched in a way that may work better than has been tried so far; they do not want to just move Adventists around, from denominational churches to Mission Catalyst churches. They want it to be a parallel, supporting ministry of the SDA church, if only the church would let it happen. They do not expect to be draining SDA coffers.

Acts 5:38, 39 - "If their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God."

LynnDel

[lazarus]

Fran said:

Quote:

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The congregation will set their salary. That will depend on if he preaches what they want to hear. He will of course bend, because his salary demands it! The congregation will say JUMP! Then the pastor will

SMILE

and say

"OF COURSE, HOW HIGH DO I NEED TO JUMP? DO YOU WANT ME TO CLAP MY HANDS AND SHOUT GLORY TOO? HUH? HUH?"

---

I am inclined to hope that you were perhaps being ironic by making the above statement. My gut feeling is that you are quite serious. Many congregational churches have enough spirtual integrity to allow the preacher to preach what he feels God is leading him to preach. Your characterisation does not do justice to the many churches accross the world who pay their own preachers!

How do we account for the fact that some SDA pastors do the same things that you describe. To dismiss Mission Catylist in the way you do is unfortunate.

[wicklunds]

Stan's and Fran's posts speak volumes. My question to you if you plan on attending with an "open" mind is, Do you plan on remaining in the Seventh-day Adventist Church with all the shaking going on? We must remain faithful to the post the Lord has placed us in. We must dig in our heels and strengthen that which remains.

The MCN has started a new training program called Launch Ticket. http://www.launchticket.org

This training program is rooted in PDL concepts and is an overall compromise with the historic message and mission of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. In fact, graduates of this program are encouraged to enter the ministry advantage program, of which Bill Hybels, Chairman of the Board of the Willow Creek Association, is a proud endorser. read more about this here...

http://www.launchticket.org/article.php?id=12&PHPSESSID=ae2ce9c5e06c2ae4b5e639b568d62300

Here is a quote from SOP which begs all honest SDA's to do a little reflecting before they join with a movement...

The Lord has pronounced a curse upon those who take from or add to the Scriptures. The great I AM has decided what shall constitute the rule of faith and doctrine, and he has designed that the Bible shall be a household book. The church that holds to the word of God is irreconcilably separated from Rome. Protestants were once thus apart from this great church of apostasy, but they have approached more nearly to her, and are still in the path of reconciliation to the Church of Rome. Rome never changes. Her principles have not altered in the least. She has not lessened the breach between herself and Protestants; they have done all the advancing. But what does this argue for the Protestantism of this day? It is the rejection of Bible truth which makes men approach to infidelity. It is a backsliding church that lessens the distance between itself and the Papacy. {ST, February 19, 1894 par. 4}

Dennis

[Gregory Matthews]

Well, Dennis, I see that you are back, and posting again. We welcome you back. We do not wish for any people to leave.

When we learned that you had become employed again, we rejoiced. Many had been praying for you, and were quite concerned about you.

I hope that this time, you can be happier in comming to Club Adventist.

I wish you well.

[cricket]

Thank you for these links, Dennis. Increasingly, I've become more and more interested in the happenings of the Willow Creek church. Your links have helped in my search for truth as to where we are headed as a denomination.

~Chrys

[swisskris]

There is one very important point that no one seems to have considered. If you go to the homepage for Mission Catalyst you will notice that they have compressed the 27, now 28, fundamental beliefs of SDA's into only 10. It is difficult to be considered a "supporting ministry" of an organization when all the basic beliefs are not shared in common.

We heard Ron Gladden speaking at an SDA church in northern CA about 2 years ago. At the Friday evening meeting he asked those present to break the 27 beliefs down to just the essential 10. People started answering, and then an old saint in the back row piped up and said, "WHY?" "These are the basis of our beliefs as supported by Scripture and each one of them is important." Gladden replied that it was to make the church "more culturally acceptable" to a broader spectrum of people. If memory serves me correctly, isn't that how the whole corruption the early church became Catholicism ---making their beliefs "more culturally acceptable" to a broader spectrum of people? To put it in a nutshell: we were not impressed by Gladden's reasoning. Afterward we stayed, and asked more questions so that we could be better informed. The consensus we came to is that in time he would be out of the church starting his own ministry.

It is becoming easier and easier to see how "whole churches" will leave the denomination in the last days.

"Lost people" can be reach by the our church, but it takes the commitment of each one of us individually. We need to personally reach out to our neighbors, our co-workers, or non-Christian family and friends. The pastor is just one person and can only do so much. Rather than complaining that the church is doing nothing, each one should look to himself and ask, "What am I doing to reach 'the lost'?" For are we not all the church. It is the responsibility of each church member to particapate in personal evangelism.

In the first world, relatively few are won to the Gospel. In the second and third world it is a completely different story. Huge numbers of people are accepting Christ. The difference: a commitment to personal evangelism.

Here in the German speaking part of Switzerland, the majority of the current growth in the Latino church (second world values). Latino Adventists have moved to Switzerland for better jobs. They meet other Latinos and share the Gospel with them and invite them to attend church: personal evangelism. They socialize together, they in turn become SDA's and the cycle repeats its self.

Jesus said, "The harvest is great, but the workers are few."