this is just kinda...

[bonnie]

Exactly Tom. The article right of the bat mentions "homosexual" in it. Now is that the article itself adding that or did they get that from any interviews they had with the school!!! That was my point to begin with. I have no problem with the school saying that she is going against the dress code and should find another school, but again, from what I've read the school has been working with her for a few years!! Now working with her can be lots of different things I would guess. It also seems to me a lot of peer pressure and probably the kids going home and telling there parents and who knows what there being told there. The school should be working on that problem as well.

Working with her would indicate that there was a problem and they were trying to correct it.

Who made the "homosexual comment" is debatable,just as easily

made by the writer of the article.

Do you have reason to believe that the school is not working on the problem of peer pressure?

Why send your child to a conservative christian school and then encouraging your child to break the rules?

There has been mention of deeper problems that they are not making public,Do you know what they are?

You still haven't answered. This little girl wants to wear boys clothing,different than the slacks they do allow. Should they allow little boys that like lace and frills to buy girls clothing and wear to school? If not,why not?

Does the child have the right to determine which rules she will follow? The grandparents?

Why not have her wear slacks to school and dress how ever she chooses at home and on weekends?

[Naomi]

Quote:

but again, from what I've read the school has been working with her for a few years!!

How many years can a school work with an 8 year old child? Have no doubts that they did not accept the tuition checks, which I understand are substantial.

The issue is not that they did not have every right to remove her from their school for not adhering to their dress code ... the issue, unless they have other evidences which have not been brought to the table, is calling her a homosexual or referring to her as exhibiting homosexual behavior.

And, that my friends,IMHO, would appear to be two separate and distinct issues

[Naomi]

....................

You still haven't answered. This little girl wants to wear boys clothing,different than the slacks they do allow. Should they allow little boys that like lace and frills to buy girls clothing and wear to school? If not,why not?

Does the child have the right to determine which rules she will follow? The grandparents?

Why not have her wear slacks to school and dress how ever she chooses at home and on weekends?

Bonnie, the answer is quite simple; if the rules for dress code were in place when she was accepted into the school, she should comply or go elsewhere. end of story

In the context of this issue, allowing boys to dress as you suggested is a non-issue

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

....................

You still haven't answered. This little girl wants to wear boys clothing,different than the slacks they do allow. Should they allow little boys that like lace and frills to buy girls clothing and wear to school? If not,why not?

Does the child have the right to determine which rules she will follow? The grandparents?

Why not have her wear slacks to school and dress how ever she chooses at home and on weekends?

Bonnie, the answer is quite simple; if the rules for dress code were in place when she was accepted into the school, she should comply or go elsewhere. end of story

In the context of this issue, allowing boys to dress as you suggested is a non-issue

There isn't anything to indicate that this was a new requirement suddenly sprung on the grandparents.

The grandparents should have known the rules and requirements

of the school they were placing their granddaughter in.

This little girl should not be determining which rule she is going to follow,neither should the grandparents.

No,I don't think it is a no-issue.If a little girl can say "I want to dress like a boy and do so,why can't a little boy claim to want to dress as a little girl.

It does not sound like this came out of the blue,with the grandparents being blindsided by a new,unknown rule.

They more than anyone are responsible for this and not directing a eight year old as they should

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The issue is not that they did not have every right to remove her from their school for not adhering to their dress code ... the issue, unless they have other evidences which have not been brought to the table, is calling her a homosexual or referring to her as exhibiting homosexual behavior.

that was my thought - why in the world put a label on an 8 year old little girl simply because she has short hair, and wears jeans and t-shirts??

I *do* prefer that girls look like girls and boys look like boys, but girls can look like girls even while wearing jeans and t-shirts. Most boys don't want to wear dresses. However, if the little girl was not being attired according to known school regulations, then certainly the school had the right to kindly ask she attend a different school.

It seems like the little girl is now being used as a pawn in some sort of "game" by a number of groups and individuals. According to reports now, she's being sent clothing and jewelry in "an outpouring of support." Support of what?

And the school is being demonized and receiving threats, so much so that deputies have had to be placed outside the school and church.

And people and groups around the world are all "het up" about the whole situation, while the grandparents are apparently "content" with where the girl is now enrolled.

source

[bonnie]

How many years can a school work with an 8 year old child? Have no doubts that they did not accept the tuition checks, which I understand are substantial.

[Tom Wetmore]

I am thinking that this thread demonstrates that media attention seldom report all the facts and often get the facts they do report wrong. And then the sensationalists among certain media outlets spin a yarn on inadequate info to turn a mountain into a molehill or whip up their fan base into a frothing frenzy of fury. And a reasonable comparison of these various reports should give a clue to whether they are try to give you the facts or get you all worked up over nothing of great consequence, or skew the view to make you focus your fury in the wrong direct.

Seems little attention is paid to the facts that she was wearing the prescribed uniform of the school which for girls included the option of slacks. And as some schools with uniforms do, they had dress down, or casual day, when she apparently wore street clothes which she was allowed to do. At that age the cut of little boys jeans and little girls jeans are not so very different.

As for the hair, Bonnie you are splitting hairs. What difference does your point even make! Either way she did a good thing that showed a compassionate heart. There is zero allegation that the school prohibited girls from having short hair. I saw a picture of her with long hair. She was a cute little kid. And as typical of media coverage of this sort, the current pictures of her were taken at an unflattering angle that only enhanced their theory that she looked like a boy. Some girls with short hair look feminine. But then so do some boys. Some girls with long hair look like long haired little boys.

But what also seems to have left the media coverage bored was the apparent treatment of the other kids and what the school did or did not do about it. That kids tease each other and can be cruel seems to have not bothered anyone. Or is it that some kids deserve to be picked on in some folks minds? Since she might have been a bit different in a way that makes certain folk uncomfortable sort of makes it OK?

[Naomi]

[bonnie]

Seems little attention is paid to the facts that she was wearing the prescribed uniform of the school which for girls included the option of slacks. And as some schools with uniforms do, they had dress down, or casual day, when she apparently wore street clothes which she was allowed to do. At that age the cut of little boys jeans and little girls jeans are not so very different.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

the good folk at TCS were (in my opinion) way out of line in calling her homosexual!

Oh, you'll never guess what my daughters & myself wear almost every day ..........

"“A woman shall not wear man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God."

Deuteronomy 22:5 NASB

Is there someplace in time or custom when God changed His mind about this or has He out of mercy for a perverted world of people, decided to ignore the issue and get on with more important issues?

"So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment."James 2:12-13 NKJV

Jesus/God saves!

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

"“A woman shall not wear man’s clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman’s clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God."

Deuteronomy 22:5 NASB

Is there someplace in time or custom when God changed His mind about this or has He out of mercy for a perverted world of people, decided to ignore the issue and get on with more important issues?

Good advice from God which applies today.

It should be noted that an understanding of the culture in Biblical times gives importance to this counsel. In short, there were cross-dressers who dressed as part of their sexual expression.

Please note that society defines that is male clothing and what is female clothing. The application of the advice from God would be to dress within the definition as to what is male and what is female in the society in which one lives.

As one who has lived in other countries I am will aware of the differences that exist in different cultures.

In our society today, Jeans are neither specificly male nor female. Jeans are worn by both males and females. One cannot say today, with validity, that jeans are a specific male item of clothing.

This is especially true for an eight year-old female as opposed to a 35 year-old female.

A 35 year-old female can purchase jeans to fit her developed female figure which would not fit the typical male. Those Jeans would be female clothing. Whereas in dealing with an 8 year-old, a standard pair of Jeans would fit a female about as well as a female. Those Jeans would not be a specific male item of clothing. They would be neither male nor female.

[CoAspen]

Okay...could you describe the difference in clothing worn during the time Christ? Which wrap around cloth was for men and which was for women?

Do you really know/understand what the text was even talking about?

I will give you a hint, free of charge, check out the SDA Bible commentary on the verse. You have really got to stop this out of context posting. It does you no good!!

[Gail]

I like sarongs on men and don't think they look feminine wearing them. But that is me.

Like Naomi and Bonnie, I was also a tomboy and felt much more comfortable in casual wear when I was a teen. I have to admit that I wasn't really at home with my feminine identity until I became a mom. I have no idea why that was, though. I did enjoy adventure and sports, climbing, etc, typical "boy" activities. Yet I never had a desire to be a boy, that I can remember.

It's a mystery to me.

I am trying to imagine how I would have reacted if I had been treated like I was a freak for doing so.

[LifeHiscost]

Sorry, I didn't mean to steal your thunder, Greg, but I found the response couldn't have been better.

Quote:

Good advice from God which applies today.

It should be noted that an understanding of the culture in Biblical times gives importance to this counsel. In short, there were cross-dressers who dressed as part of their sexual expression.

Please note that society defines that is male clothing and what is female clothing. The application of the advice from God would be to dress within the definition as to what is male and what is female in the society in which one lives.

As one who has lived in other countries I am will aware of the differences that exist in different cultures.

In our society today, Jeans are neither specificly male nor female. Jeans are worn by both males and females. One cannot say today, with validity, that jeans are a specific male item of clothing.

This is especially true for an eight year-old female as opposed to a 35 year-old female.

A 35 year-old female can purchase jeans to fit her developed female figure which would not fit the typical male. Those Jeans would be female clothing. Whereas in dealing with an 8 year-old, a standard pair of Jeans would fit a female about as well as a female. Those Jeans would not be a specific male item of clothing. They would be neither male nor female.

_________________________

Gregory

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Aliensanctuary]

Some girls, and women, are girly-girls, while some are tom-boys, and as adults refuse to wear dresses, even to church or weddings. Back when I was young, men were men and women were women. Today, men are women and women are men.

I married a girly-girl who wears dresses to church and special occasions, but slacks and jeans to her Post Office job. I personally don't care much for the looks of women with very short hair. Maybe men in general are just programmed to appreciate long hair on women.

[bonnie]

Please note that society defines that is male clothing and what is female clothing. The application of the advice from God would be to dress within the definition as to what is male and what is female in the society in which one lives.

As one who has lived in other countries I am will aware of the differences that exist in different cultures.

In our society today, Jeans are neither specificly male nor female. Jeans are worn by both males and females. One cannot say today, with validity, that jeans are a specific male item of clothing.

This is especially true for an eight year-old female as opposed to a 35 year-old female.

A 35 year-old female can purchase jeans to fit her developed female figure which would not fit the typical male. Those Jeans would be female clothing. Whereas in dealing with an 8 year-old, a standard pair of Jeans would fit a female about as well as a female. Those Jeans would not be a specific male item of clothing. They would be neither male nor female.

If you check out a few of the pics of this girl,this isn't about a pair of jeans.She is dressed as you would anticipate a boy being dressed.

Having dressed both boys and girls of the same age,there is a difference between boys and girls clothing besides frilly dresses.

The school dress code did not allow for either boy or girl jeans for girls. Girls slacks are not boys jeans.

While those responding here may not agree with the dress code,the ones important to this story did.

The grandparents voluntarily enrolled this child in this conservative christian school and then let an eight year old determine whether she would comply or not.

When the little girl was denied the right to write the rules as she wanted them to read,they ran to the media claiming victim.

[Tom Wetmore]

As usual Bonnie, you seem to have fallen for the limited media snapshot of this story that insists it and she can only be seen from one perspective, the one most closely resembling your own worldview or confirming your own perception of reality. You just seem stuck in a narrow rut on this story.

I read a number of different news and commentary on this before I commented. They were not all the same.

And I also have looked at all the available pictures and news videos of her that show up on the internet coverage of this story. 90 percent of the pictures were obviously taken of her on the same day or two of her life, at home wearing casual clothes. None of them show what she was wearing at school, because they were not a school uniform described in several of the news stories. And no, she wasn't wearing distinctly boys clothes. A T-shirt, a sweatshirt, a hoody are unisex garments, commonly worn by boys and girls. The same for her pants and footwear. (not visible except in a few pictures)

The few pictures of her at younger ages, even with short hair, she looked like a girl. And in the more current pictures of her she appeared to have gotten a bit pudgy which I think contributed to a unflattering appearance in photos that some might see as less feminine, unless she was wearing a dress, and maybe contributing to her being less inclined to wear dresses and more feminine clothes. At a glance, I might not have been certain if it was a little boy or a little girl. But that is not uncommon with pre-pubescent children. Maybe at that awkward age where growth is uneven and disproportionate and not yet taking on a more distinct gender form. Again not unusual for little girls and boys at that age.

To have made an issue of this at all is a shame.

[bonnie]

As usual Bonnie, you seem to have fallen for the limited media snapshot of this story that insists it and she can only be seen from one perspective, the one most closely resembling your own worldview or confirming your own perception of reality. You just seem stuck in a narrow rut on this story.