God of Isrelites

[whbae]

In Old Testaments, there are stories after stories that God demanded to kill and destroy all beings including women, children and animals in the land where Israelites invaded. For instance David did the same thing when invaded the neighboring countries. Nowadays, we cringe when we hear some nations invade other country and kill women and children. First of all, why the Israelite invade other nations without being provoked(not all) and kill off so cruelly while Jesus is so forgiving? Anyone can help me to understand this God of the Old Testament?

Won

[M. T. Cross]

Its the same as any other pantheon in my opinion Won. There are demanding and angry God(desses)s), there are war God(desses)s, there are protective God(desses)s and there are God(desses)s that are gentle and loving and kind.

I think in the old testament one of the more prominent Gods of the pantheon was a war God.

[whbae]

I believe that our God of the Christians is only one God of Love, not of many Gods.

[M. T. Cross]

So then explain the answer to your own question.

There is really no love shown in the old testament.

[whbae]

The reason I have posted this question is that I do not have a logical answer. I am seeking someone's reply that I can believe.

[M. T. Cross]

So you want an answer that you can be comfortable with and does not challenge what you already believe?

[Kevin H]

While the Bible emphasizes the violence, there are verses that fill out the picture. The reason for emphasizing the violence is that the Deuteronomic history was either edited by Jeremiah or a close associate to Jeremiah. They were dealing with both the Josiah reform and the possibility of elimination by the Babylonians. Since God delivered Judah from the Assyrians people were expecting it again. Jeremiah was encouraging reform by pointing out that they were not being faithful to God and reminding the people that there was once a people living there who was not faithful to God and that those people were wiped out. Jeremiah was telling the people to either repent or they will be wiped out. Jeremiah was more focused on applying the history to their current crisis than being focused on all the details of the historical facts.

The Canaanites were the most violent people at the time. They lived at what was the crossroads of all the caravan trades, but were a danger to the world economy due to passing through Canaan was like passing through some of the worst slums with the highest crime rate at night time.

Second, they thought to unite their life forces with the gods of life that they had to have orgies including having sex with their children and their neighbor's children and giving their children to their neighbors. This had caused a large amount of psychological scaring.

Third, what you had was the walled cities that housed the elite, the rulers, religious leaders, soldiers etc. Then you had the common people in the unwalled area, the daughters of the cities. These common people were enslaved and abused by those living in the cities. When the Hebrews came it was the oppressive violent leaders from the walled cities that was killed. The "daughters" were liberated and incorporated into the Hebrews. There was more evangelism going on than killing going on and you can find verses that indicate this. The only walled people who joined with were the Gibbionites and Rahab and her family...

Now names represented character. Rahab was one of the names of the great sea monster, the leviathan, how they understood the devil. Rahab was the worst Canaanite. She was one who the deprived, wicked, cruel Canaanites would look upon and say "at least I'm not as deprived, wicked and cruel as this person is" But that God was able to save the worst of the lot and there was no reason that if the worst one of the bunch could be saved, that God wanted to save and would have been willing to save the others if only they would let him.

These were the issues. Again, in the editing of the history in Jeremiah's time they were wanting to focus on the violence because the Hebrews were now facing the annihilation.

[Gail]

The civilisations of the time were far more violent as a way of life than today, I found. We certainly have incidents which make headlines but can you imagine that violence being a common occurrence? And violence involving slaying your own children in an act of worship? Impaling, mutilation and beheading everywhere...

We read about horrible murders but for the most part the horror is still "out there". For those who lived then it was their reality.

This was what God was dealing with. It was rough medicine for a barbaric time. The God who is presented in the Bible as hating divorce and pleading the cause of widows and orphans was as inflamed against tyranny as we are against apartheid and Taliban and female genital mutilation and slavery.

[whbae]

Thank all of you! So far, I have best answers from three of you, above. Even the well known SDA tv evangelists would not give me reasonable answers. They just beat around the bushes just like a typical politician. Thanks, again.

Won

[LifeHiscost]

Thank all of you! So far, I have best answers from three of you, above. Even the well known SDA tv evangelists would not give me reasonable answers. They just beat around the bushes just like a typical politician. Thanks, again.

Won

I'm satisfied that since God is omniscient as well as Love, even the destruction for which He takes responsibility is born of the fact that any action He calls for or performs is the best possible solution, carried out to protect His followers. Since He can see into the future He knows what would be brought about by those whose lives were forfeited, had they continued to live.

"He who does not love does not know God, for God is love."1 John 4:8 NKJV

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever."Hebrews 13:8 NKJV

"I and My Father are one.”"

John 10:30 NKJV

God blesses! Jesus saves!

[Aliensanctuary]

Ultimately, although those unfortunate people ordered destroyed by YHVH had no place in the Kingdom of Israel, they will be resurrected, presented with the Three Angels Messages, and given the opportunity to join his Kingdom. Those who submit to his rule will be loved and well-taken care of, but those who continue to rebel will, in the end, be irrevocably destroyed.

[Gail]

Ultimately, although those unfortunate people ordered destroyed by YHVH had no place in the Kingdom of Israel, they will be resurrected, presented with the Three Angels Messages, and given the opportunity to join his Kingdom. Those who submit to his rule will be loved and well-taken care of, but those who continue to rebel will, in the end, be irrevocably destroyed.

A second chance?

[JoeMo]

Quote:

A second chance?

I believe that also. My view of a "fair and just" God would be one who gave everyone a fair chance to make an informed and conscious choice on whether or not to follow Him. People whose view of God has been distorted by culture or denominational religion, or those who never even had a chance to hear about YHVH deserve to hear about and experience His love, patience and mercy; and then - based on their response to that love - can choose eternal life or eternal oblivion.

There used to be a person on CA named 8thdaypriest that presented this topic very well.

God, as the Creator, has taken responsibility for all good and evil that takes place in the universe (See Isaiah 45:7). In a sense, He accepts the blame for all bad things. Most of the time, the visitation of evil upon any people group mentioned in the Bible has been at the hand of other people. Couple that with the possibility that - since the OT was a book by written by Jews for Jews from a Jewish point of view - some stories about the "wrath of God" are in reality an excuse that "God did it" to present themselves in the best possible light (helpless bystanders rather than the progenitors of ancient genocide as presented by some secular historians).

[CoAspen]

Who recorded the history of the OT Bible? What was their perception of God?

The depiction of the Israelite God was no different than the God/s of the nations surrounding them.Cultural perceptions. Some people don't like that answer because it requires more than a literal understanding of history.

[Kevin H]

We develop our characters. Sometimes we are part of a culture that has become so lost, but remember the studies and discussions we have given about what (or rather who) Hell Fire is.

While the culture was out of control, as individuals facing the Judgment they either have a spark that will end up yielding to the overwhelming power and beauty of Jesus and find it heaven to be with him, or else they will refuse to yield and be in the same hell as everyone else of wanting to come to him yet refusing to...

[whbae]

Aliensanctuary,

Do you really believe you "2nd chance" theology? It is a strange theology to me.

Once person dies one's destiny is sealed!

Won

[Sojourner]

Another way that I view the opening question is this. God is the giver and first cause of all life. God sustains all life on our planet. If God removed His presence from the earth all life would be lost and the earth would become barren. Whilst we put life up on a pedestal, God does not see it that way. The earth is temporal life whereas life in His kingdom is eternal. As hard as it is for us to understand and I am one of those, the facts are that life is God’s to give or to take away as he sees fit.

I also agree with the response above about the fact that the sheer violent intent of people in those times was a factor in the fact that their lives were taken because there was no other way to stop the violence. This is in a time before the ministry of Jesus Christ and a word where Christian grace in its post New Testament form did not exist at all.

The question raised here by whbae is a very important one for Christians to be able to address. Various atheist writers like Dawkins and so forth use this premise to discredit the existence of God. – What I find interesting is that they state that the Bible is a myth and a bunch of stories, yet when they find instances of killing, these are suddenly factual accounts to them, wheras the rest of the content is not. Christians do however need to be able to answer these questions despite that.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Once person dies one's destiny is sealed!

I know that's what we as SDA's are supposed to believe; buy I have a hard time believing that God would simply terminate those - who through no fault of their own - never ever heard of Him; or - because of false education that God was vindictive and needed to be feared - never had a chance to make an informed choice for or against Him. I am persuaded that the resurrection of judgement at the end of the millennium will judge people by their acts once they have the opportunity to see how He really is rather than the twisted things (if anything) that the were taught about Him through secular or denominational education.

But He is God, and He will do whatever is best for His Bride. We'll know in 1,000 years or so. Regardless, I don't think it's a salvational issue.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Once person dies one's destiny is sealed!

I know that's what we as SDA's are supposed to believe; buy I have a hard time believing that God would simply terminate those - who through no fault of their own - never ever heard of Him; or - because of false education that God was vindictive and needed to be feared and appeased - never had a chance to make an informed choice for or against Him. I am persuaded that the resurrection of judgement at the end of the millennium will judge people by their acts once they have the opportunity to see how He really is rather than the twisted things (if anything) that the were taught about Him through secular or denominational education.

But He is God, and He will do whatever is best for His bride. We'll know in 1,000 years or so. Regardless, I don't think it's a salvational issue.

[JoeMo]

Sorry about the double-post. My computer became temporarily possessed.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

"they will be resurrected, presented with the Three Angels Messages, and given the opportunity to join his Kingdom."

That is second chance theology. If Jesus is bringing His rewards with Him at His second coming, and some haven't made up their mind yet, what would be the reason for resurrecting those who might not choose the Truth?

Does that square with this Word?

“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. Revelation 22:12 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[phkrause]

Sorry about the double-post. My computer became temporarily possessed.

Don't worry, dgrimm's computer does that all the time. LOL

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

who through no fault of their own

Is that not a misapprehension of reality, except of course for those who haven't reached the point of ability to reason.

"...because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. "Romans 1:19-21 NKJV

God/Jesus saves!

[JoeMo]

I

Quote:

s that not a misapprehension of reality

I can only speak of my own reality, LHC. That reality is that for more than half of my life, I struggled with fear of God - actually being afraid of Him - because I didn't and couldn't measure up. I saw the immense power of God in nature, but I never saw the love until recently. The view I have of my Papa is that He will want everyone who ever lived to have an equally fair chance of experiencing who He really is - not who others say He is - before deciding on their ultimate destiny.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

He will want everyone who ever lived to have an equally fair chance of experiencing who He really is - not who others say He is - before deciding on their ultimate destiny.

Forgive me if I've contributed to any thought that I could assume to know your personal experience. As far as reality is concerned, what I accept as reality is only true as long as it agrees with God's revelation of Himself through His Son, Jesus. And I've found hope for anyone who sees the righteousness of Christ as fully satisfying all the requirements for eternal salvation.

Jesus' prayer on the cross I believe makes it clear that ignorance alone will not keep anyone out of Heaven. It is only after refusing to admit to one's own lack and subsequent unwillingness to repent, that our destiny is any other place than the Kingdom of heaven.

"Then Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do."Luke 23:34 NKJV

There is no place in the Word where it is pointed out our names are placed in the book of life, only of those taken out. Therefor to follow the Master as He enables us is a key to salvation.

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." 1 John 1:9 NKJV

"These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God."1 John 5:13 NKJV

God cares! Jesus saves!