Another indication____________

[LifeHiscost]

_______________of the roar of the devil. The sad thing as evidenced by comments under the article is that many seem enthralled by the enemy of souls.

Quote:

Satanic group reveals crowdfunded monument for Oklahoma State Capitol

By Dante D'Orazio on May 3, 2014 05:21 pm Email @dantedorazio

http://www.theverge.com/2014/5/3/5678782...a-state-capitol

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Gregory Matthews]

Under U.S. law, government cannot favor one religion over another. Thus, if government appears to place a symbol on government property that seems to be a religious symbol, it gives others grounds to request that a symbol of their religion also be placed nearby on government property.

[Naomi]

Personally I would prefer total separation of church & state. That means {please don't crucify me} no prayer in public schools, no 10 commandments in public places, etc. This is not a new belief which I hold, but a life-time belief. Anyway, the 10 Commandments in public arenas are abbreviated, especially the 4th. If one is permitted to pray, then so is another and we might not like the other prayers which will be permitted.

What adds to the shock & awe of this particular statue is the grotesque representation (again perhaps only in my eyes) lovingly portrayed with the sweet young children. On a deeply personal level I find this subtle message offensive.

Is Satanic Worship considered a religion?

[M. T. Cross]

I find their usage of a pentagram to be offensive.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Is Satanic Worship considered a religion?

In general terms, one might say yes.

However, in more specific terms, one might say maybe. There is more than one so-called satanic group. Whether or not a specific group would be called a religion would depend on the beliefs and practices of the group.

[Naomi]

Quote:

Is Satanic Worship considered a religion?

In general terms, one might say yes.

However, in more specific terms, one might say maybe. There is more than one so-called satanic group. Whether or not a specific group would be called a religion would depend on the beliefs and practices of the group.

As I am certain you also read, and I also checked other sources, they call themselves the Satanic Temple from New York and are newly formed. The largest Satanic group that I am aware of are the Wicca.

M.T. I can appreciate your objection to the use of the pentagram, however it is widely used in many groups which is not surprising that it is also used by the members of the Satanic Temple. I know for sure that the WICCA use it in almost all, if not all, of their observances.

[Naomi]

Gregory has indicated a group's criteria for being considered a religion would be

Quote:

Whether or not a specific group would be called a religion would depend on the beliefs and practices of the group.

This sounds like a reasonable definition.

There is a great deal of information on the web. The following is a portion of one:

Greaves — also known by his legal name, Doug Mesner — was mentioned last year in a Vice magazine article, which revealed that the formation of the Satanic Temple was part of a bid to use public stunts to challenge conservative Christian groups. A documentary was in the works, but Greaves said it has been scrapped.

“This is not a finite project for a film. This isn’t for a documentary now. Now it’s not even something we’re working on. We are legally incorporated now,” Greaves said. He added that the organization chose not to apply for religious designation out of a belief that all U.S. entities should pay taxes and “because we are against churches’ having government-approved status.”

Reference: Satanic Temple unveils plan to bring sympathy for the devil ...

america.aljazeera.com/articles/.../2/satanist-monument.html

[M. T. Cross]

As I am certain you also read, and I also checked other sources, they call themselves the Satanic Temple from New York and are newly formed. The largest Satanic group that I am aware of are the Wicca.

M.T. I can appreciate your objection to the use of the pentagram, however it is widely used in many groups which is not surprising that it is also used by the members of the Satanic Temple. I know for sure that the WICCA use it in almost all, if not all, of their observances.

I find it interesting that you would call Wiccan's satanists. I spent a period of time studying Wicca and have many wiccan friends. While I find it to be a rather unsubstantial religion I am unaware of any Satanic elements to it.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

The largest Satanic group that I am aware of are the Wicca.

Wiccans are a long way from being worshipers of Satan. They have been called such by people who do not understand their beliefs, but they are not even close to worshiping Satan.

Here is a more accurate statement:

Quote:

Wiccans are, in many ways, directly opposite to Satanists:

Most Wiccans worship a Goddess and her consort, a God.

They do not recognize Satan or any other all-evil supernatural entity.

Their prime symbol is the exact opposite to the symbol used by Satanists. It is the upright pentagram -- a 5-pointed star with two points downward and one up. Sometimes it is enclosed by a circle to form a pentacle.

Their groups are generally called covens, not grottos or temples.

Their rule of behavior is called the Wiccan Rede: "An it harm none, do what thou wilt." i.e. do whatever you wish, as long as it harms no one, including yourself. Wiccans are not allowed do dominate, manipulate, control, or harm others.

Wiccans believe that they worship neither the Christian God nor the Christian devil. They worship a Goddess and a God. Neither is at all similar to Satan. Wicca, and other forms of Neopaganism, are as different from Satanism as Hinduism is from Christianity.

See: http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_sata.htm#

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Greaves — also known by his legal name, Doug Mesner — was mentioned last year in a Vice magazine article, which revealed that the formation of the Satanic Temple was part of a bid to use public stunts to challenge conservative Christian groups.

There is an important point here: Just because they call themselves the Satanic Temple does not actually mean that they are worshipers of Satan.

I know nothing about this group. So, I do not comment as to whether or not they worship Satan. But, I do know that a name does not make one a member of a religion.

One may call oneself a Messianic Jew, but that does not make one a Jew.

One may call a book a Satanic Bible. But, that does not make that book either Satanic or a Bible.

The history of religion clearly reveals that there are groups that took upon themselves names that did not accurately represent their beliefs, practices and associations.

Quote:

Satanism consists of one main faith group -- The Church of Satan -- and many smaller religious groups. Many of the latter tend to be very short lived.

We have concluded from studies of Satanism by specialists in new religious movements and from discussions with individual Satanists that the vast majority of Satanists do not recognize Satan as a deity. They are, in fact, Agnostics, Apatheists, or Atheists.

•Agnostics believe that one cannot prove either the existence or the non-existence of a god or gods.

•Apatheists regard the existence of god(s) or supreme being as a relatively meaningless and irrelevant question. Even if a proof for a god or gods existed -- or for that matter, a proof that no god existed, -- they wouldn't really care.

•Some Atheists simply have no belief in any deity; others actively assert that there is no deity.

One illustration of this is that the largest Satanic group, the Church of Satan was founded by Anton LaVey, an Agnostic. After his death, it is now led by two Atheists.

Satanists generally regard Satan as a pre-Christian symbol, representing pleasure, virility, and strength. He is not viewed as a living entity.

Their prime symbol is the Sigil of Baphomet. This is a goat's head, drawn within an inverted pentagram (5-pointed star with one point downward and two up). It is surrounded by a circle. Some Satanists conduct individual rituals; some meet together in grottos.

Various behavioral codes are followed by Satanists, including:

•Aleister Crowley: "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law."

•Anton LaVey: ◦"Responsibility to the responsible," and

◦"Do unto others as they've done unto you."

They permit Satanists considerable freedom of action. Some occasionally engage in black magic rituals with the goal of retaliating against those who have previously hurt them. Turning the other cheek is not their style.

See:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_sata.htm#

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

I know for sure that the WICCA use it [pentagram] in almost all, if not all, of their observances.

Whether or not the Wiccans use the Pentagram in their observances in not a issue I am commenting on at this time.

My point is: So what? The Pentagram is widely used and by groups that are not worshipers of Satan.

I happen to know for a fact that yesterday I attended SDA services on a day dedicated, by name, to the pagan Roman god Saturn. However, that fact that Seventh-day Adventists generally worship of a day dedicated by name to a Roman god does not make the SDA Church pagan, and neither does it make me a pagan.

Here is an interesting statement on the Pentagram:

Quote:

Many religions, even those involving a variety of symbols, hold one above all others to represent the religion. For Jews it is the star of David. For Christians it is the cross, although they employ dozens of variations of the basic design. For Wiccans, it is the pentagram.

The pentagram has existed for thousands of years through a variety of cultures. It has been ascribed numerous meanings, but mostly it has been a symbol of protection and invocation.

As a symbol of our religion, the pentagram is always depicted point-up, and many Wiccans will rabidly insist it is only used in this orientation, thus further distancing ourselves from Satanists, who identify themselves was a point-down pentagram. However, there are in fact some Wiccans (and witches) who use pentagrams oriented in both directions, representing a variety of different meanings.

Modern Symbolism

The pentagram symbolizes the union of the five basic elements. Spirit is ascribed to the uppermost point, with the implication that Spirit surmounts the physical elements. When the pentagram is inverted, the physical world supplants the Spirit as supreme, hence its association with Satanism. Personally, it seems to me a certain point is lost when you focus on the position of any one element among a unity.

"The Satanists stole our emblem!"

Actually, we both largely borrowed the pentagram from ceremonial magic, where it has existed for centuries before the advent of Satanism or Wicca, which are both fairly new movements.

"The Christians perverted our emblem!"

See above. This claim presumes that the pentagram was first associated with Satanism due to claims of the Christian church, during its persecution of pagans. But no mention of the pentagram oriented in either direction can be found in witch-hunt documents.

In my experience, I have generally seen Satanists use a pentagram with the point down. But, this is due to the fact that much (not all) of my knowledge about Satanism comes from the CHRUCH OF SATAN and Anton LeVey.

The following will give much more than I have stated above:

http://wiccansage.hubpages.com/hub/Wicca-for-Beginners-What-is-a-Pentagram-or-Pentacle

[M. T. Cross]

The pentacle or pentagram is used both ways by a number of groups. Some people get worked up about it being used upside down and others don't. In my belief system it is used both ways.

I find most of the symbolism used by wanna be "evil satanists" to be offensive cause they appropriate from wherever they want, including Christianity. I think the one thing that bothers me the most is their usage of the Catholic depiction on any horned God as the Devil.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Quote:

The largest Satanic group that I am aware of are the Wicca.

Wiccans are a long way from being worshipers of Satan. They have been called such by people who do not understand their beliefs, but they are not even close to worshiping Satan.

Here is a more accurate statement:

Quote:

Wiccans are, in many ways, directly opposite to Satanists:

Most Wiccans worship a Goddess and her consort, a God.

They do not recognize Satan or any other all-evil supernatural entity.

Their prime symbol is the exact opposite to the symbol used by Satanists. It is the upright pentagram -- a 5-pointed star with two points downward and one up. Sometimes it is enclosed by a circle to form a pentacle.

Their groups are generally called covens, not grottos or temples.

Their rule of behavior is called the Wiccan Rede: "An it harm none, do what thou wilt." i.e. do whatever you wish, as long as it harms no one, including yourself. Wiccans are not allowed do dominate, manipulate, control, or harm others.

Wiccans believe that they worship neither the Christian God nor the Christian devil. They worship a Goddess and a God. Neither is at all similar to Satan. Wicca, and other forms of Neopaganism, are as different from Satanism as Hinduism is from Christianity.

See: http://www.religioustolerance.org/wic_sata.htm#

That's a fairly good representation of Wicca, however, there *are* those factions which go beyond the "feel good" mainstream Wiccan practices, into the darker arts. While they don't believe in "the devil," they may take up with one of the more sinister gods or goddesses...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Interesting that this topic has reared its head so close to Beltane...

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Wiccans are a long way from being worshipers of Satan. They have been called such by people who do not understand their beliefs, but they are not even close to worshiping Satan.

Perhaps one could be excused from the specific intent to worship satan as a result of ignorance that when one divorces themselves from Jesus as Lord, there is only one other noted god of this world left to acknowledge.

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV

God/Jesus cares!

[M. T. Cross]

Quote:

Wiccans are a long way from being worshipers of Satan. They have been called such by people who do not understand their beliefs, but they are not even close to worshiping Satan.

Perhaps one could be excused from the specific intent to worship satan as a result of ignorance that when one divorces themselves from Jesus as Lord, there is only one other noted god of this world left to acknowledge.

"In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them."2 Corinthians 4:4 KJV

God/Jesus cares!

Actually LHC there are a lot of "noted" Gods

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Perhaps one could be excused from the specific intent to worship satan as a result of ignorance that when one divorces themselves from Jesus as Lord, there is only one other noted god of this world left to acknowledge.

One other option is to not worship any god.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Personally I would prefer total separation of church & state. That means {please don't crucify me} no prayer in public schools, no 10 commandments in public places, etc.

I have some major agreement with the above, but probably not 100%.

The 1sts Amendment to the Federal Constitution has a couple of clauses that impact on this issue:

1) Government cannot establish a religion.

2) Citizens have the right to freely exercise their religion.

The 2nd may require the government, under some circumstances, to provide religious ministry to its citizens. E.G. When the government sends its men and women into other countries, in defense of the nation, those men and women cannot reasonably be expected to receive religious ministry from the citizens of that country. Therefore, the government has an obligation to provide on some levels and this has been upheld by the Courts.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Actually LHC there are a lot of "noted" Gods

I was only referring to the "Truth".

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."John 8:32 KJV

"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."

John 14:6 NKJV

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart."Jeremiah 29:13 KJV

Happy hunting!

God cares! Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

Considering the OP, this probably fits here, especially as it refers to a subtle "roaring lion", who doesn't ask for permission as opposed to the "Lion of Judah" Who offers the gift of freedom.

http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2014/05/12/3436712/daytona-beach-feeding-homeless/

Quote:

Of Feeding Homeless People"

Chico and Debbie Jimenez were fined by Daytona Beach police for feeding the homeless.

CREDIT: Youtube account ChicoandDebbie Jimenez

After feeding the hungry in a Daytona Beach park every weekend for more than a year, it’s just as easy to imagine Chico and Debbie Jimenez given a ticker-tape parade as what they actually got: a slew of citations and a permanent ban from the park.

Chico and Debbie Jimenez, a husband and wife team, aren’t handing out food in the Florida heat every Wednesday because of a court order or for a paycheck. They do it because they believe helping the poor is their religious duty. The pair run a Christian outreach group, Spreading the Word Without Saying a Word Ministry, that gives food to the needy every week, pointing to Jesus’ words in Matthew 25:40: “Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.”

Every Wednesday, the Jimenezes feed more than a hundred people a hearty lunch with dishes of chicken patties, macaroni salad, and fresh vegetables, among others. The meals are entirely funded by private donations and staffed with volunteers.

However, Daytona Beach is one of a handful of cities that enacted ordinances barring individuals from serving food in public. Last week, nearly a half-dozen police officers showed up at Manatee Island Park, where a long line of people had queued to get a meal, and served citations to the Jimenezes and volunteers.

According to the group’s Facebook page, Chico and Debbie, along with four volunteers, were each given multiple 2nd degree misdemeanor citations. The fines totaled $373 per person, $2,238 for the group. The police also permanently banned the group from Manatee Island Park. “We both have made a lot of good friends in the park and are devastated that we are banned the Manatee Park forever,” Debbie wrote. “I am heartbroken.”

Police Chief Mike Chitwood commented about the incident to the Daytona Beach News-Journal: “The ordinance is there, so if we catch you, we’re going to cite you.” He went on to add, “If you want to feed people, and you want to do a good, Christian act, we encourage you to coordinate with the social service agencies.”

Daytona Beach is just the latest city to crack down on groups that feed the poor in city parks. Other recent examples range from Birmingham to St. Louis to Raleigh to Philadelphia to Orlando. A 2010 report from the National Law Center on Homelessness & Poverty identified more than a dozen other cities with restrictions and found an uptick in the number of new ordinances.

The Jimenezes, who both left jobs more than a year ago to focus on ministry full-time, were upset about the developments, but told the News-Journal that they planned to challenge the citations rather than pay them. “We are ‘ NOT Criminals ‘ and feeding ‘ Hungry folks ‘ is not a crime,” the couple said.

This is a problem developing in the town of which we live in close proximity, not yet established by law.

"We ought to obey God rather than men."Acts 5:29 KJV

How many of us are prepared to take that stand?

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

If you want to feed people, and you want to do a good, Christian act, we encourage you to coordinate with the social service agencies.

They were not told that they could not feed the homeless.

1) They were told to coordinate.

2) They were told to do it in an approved location.

3) They were probably told to do it with people who are not likely going to transmit disease to the people they served.

Does not the Bible say something about obedience to Cesar?

Each of the above could be reasonable.

If the enforcement was not reasonable, then litigate.

[LifeHiscost]

Have you known any historical examples of enforcement by civil authorities re: religious activity that turned out well?

http://www.gotquestions.org/middle-ages.html

Some interesting facts are contained here to indicate historical precedence for religious activity when civil and religious authorities get together to insure all are doing what the human government determines is needing to be enforced.

Quote:

Those who forget the lessons of the past are doomed to make the same mistakes.

author unknown

God cares! Jesus saves!