Does Gods glory always consummate sin & sinners?

[Raphael]

We have been taught (among others from EGs writings on (among others) Moses witnessing Gods presence) that if Gods glory was revealed to us, sinners, we would be instantaneously obliterated. Is that literal truth? or maybe analogous to Gods word that the penalty of sin is death (not always instantaneous)?

Love & forgiveness,

Raphael

[bevin]

Consume, not consumate

/Bevin

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

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bevin said:

Consume, not consumate

/Bevin

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I wonder how that response fits into the observation about Jesus' efforts to mingle among men as desirous of their good, meeting their needs, and then asking them to follow Him?

[:"red"] "...be wise as serpents and harmless as doves." [/] Matthew 10:16 NKJV

Keep looking up!

[Ron Lambert]

Isaiah 33:14, 15 poses this surprising question and answer: "...'Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?' He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly, He who despises the gain of oppressions, Who gestures with his hands, refusing bribes, Who stops his ears from hearing of bloodshed, And shuts his eyes from seeing evil:" (NKJV)

Get it? The ones who will dwell with everlasting fire are the righteous! They can dwell with the devouring fire of God, and not be harmed.

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Ron,

I like that verse I'm glad you posted it. It should behoove us all to make our calling and election sure. I certainly don't want or wish anyone to be in a selfish rebellious state when Jesus returns.

Norman

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

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Norman said:

Hi Ron,

I like that verse I'm glad you posted it. It should behoove us all to make our calling and election sure. I certainly don't want or wish anyone to be in a selfish rebellious state when Jesus returns.

Norman

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Nor I, Ron.

Keep the faith!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

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Ron Lambert said:

The ones who will dwell with everlasting fire are the righteous! They can dwell with the devouring fire of God, and not be harmed.

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Which indicates to me there is a supernatural change yet to be experienced by all.

[:"red"] "All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all." [/] Isaiah 53:6 NKJV

Keep the faith!

[Raphael]

Satan as an arch sinner met and had this nonchalant and leisurly like conversation with God concerning Job, and survived ... not blasted into oblivion by Gods holy presence. How does that fit with our common understanding that Gods glory would surely obliterate instantly sin and sinners into kingdom come?

Love & forgiveness,

Raphael

[Ron Lambert]

Raphael, it was God the Son who talked with Satan. God the Son is also the member of the Godhead that has always appeared and talked to humanity. Note 1 Cor. 10:4--It was Christ who led ancient Israel through the Wilderness. It was Christ who gave the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai. It was Christ who appeared to Moses in the burning bush and declared "I am that I am."

Otherwise there is no way to harmonize these two passages of Scripture:

"No man hath seen God at any time." (1 John 4:12)

"Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink." (Ex. 24:9-11)

This same resolution of the apparent contradiction is indicated by John 1:10: "No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

It is God the Father whom no man has ever seen. The Son is the only face of divinity man has ever beheld. This likely is true for other creatures like Satan and the angels, as well.

[Raphael]

Comentaries on Daniels experience in witnessing Gods presence (God the son) beside a river as depicted in the book of Daniel from EG (among others, if I'm not wrong) state Daniels weakened physical state caused by the vision or Gods presence was due to the presence of sin in Daniel as no man is free from sin; which is present in all humanity except for God the son. The description of the being Daniel met beside the river most theologians agree to be God the son. The question is, this presence of sin which is so offensive in the sight of the Lord could entertain such an "intimate" discourse that happened between arch sinner satan and God (which is one three; the Trinity) and not be reduced to consumption (as the word consume would apply) on the subject discourse of Job My faithful servant ... how does that fit our common taught understanding that Gods glory or presence, would not tolerate any presence of sin and would consume (not consumate, some say) the sin and its bearer.

God is love,

Raphael

[Kevin H]

It is not an instantianious distruction, which is why some of the lost suffer longer than others. Satan who stood as the covering cherib and the one who will be doing the most self justification and coming up with excuses for his actions will thus suffer the longest.

However, as pointed out, but I'd like to modify if I can, to keep sinners from dieing until the issues of the great controversy, the trinity took the results of sin upon themselves and Jesus was already taking our death at the foundation of the world and God distanced himself from creation to keep us from the natural consequences until the issues were seen.

An additional point that I've heard lately, but which I have not been fully convinced of yet, but find intreguing: It was John Milton who place the fall of Satan before the creation of the world, and it has become Christian tradition since and we take it for granted. However, the idea originated with Milton, prior to him the church did not have a set time. While not directly confronting Milton, Ellen White does throw in some ideas, first that when Lucifer had to leave his poision, that he was not once cast out but God bore long with him, trying to win him back. She also has the universe, except for humanity, close their probation at the cross. Revelation 12 has the war in heaven and Satan cast to the earth after the assension of Christ, and it is the New Testament that talks about Satan coming down. Could it be that in Job's day that Satan still had not closed his probation and God was still working with Satan?

Third, to the ancient world and first readers of Job, they would not have seen Satan as we do. The term "Satan" would simply mean the same as "Distric Attorney" the member of the heavenly court who makes sure that both sides are fairly represented to the judge. They would understand the devil in the Leviathan and understand what was happening in Job by what the Lord said out of the whirlwind about the Leviathan (which we do not recognize and therefore stupidly say that Job never understood what happened).