The Trumpet

[LifeHiscost]

A National Sunday Law Means National Apostasy

To secure popularity and patronage, legislators will yield to the demand for a Sunday law By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness.... {LDE 132.4}

As the approach of the Roman armies was a sign to the disciples of the impending destruction of Jerusalem, so may this apostasy be a sign to us that the limit of God’s forbearance is reached.—Testimonies for the Church 5:451 (1885).{LDE 133.1}

We must take a firm stand that we will not reverence the first day of the week as the Sabbath, for it is not the day that was blessed and sanctified by Jehovah, and in reverencing Sunday we should place ourselves on the side of the great deceiver{LDE 133.2}

When the law of God has been made void and apostasy becomes a national sin, the Lord will work in behalf of His people.—Selected Messages 3:388 (1889).{LDE 133.3}

The people of the United States have been a favored people, but when they restrict religious liberty, surrender Protestantism, and give countenance to popery, the measure of their guilt will be full, and “national apostasy” will be registered in the books of heaven.—The Review and Herald, May 2, 1893.{LDE 133.4}

National Apostasy Will Be Followed by National Ruin

When our nation, in its legislative councils, shall enact laws to bind the consciences of men in regard to their religious privileges, enforcing Sunday observance, and bringing oppressive power to bear against those who keep the seventh-day Sabbath, the law of God will, to all intents and purposes, be made void in our land, and national apostasy will be followed by national ruin.—The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 7:977 (1888). {LDE 133.5}

It is at the time of the national apostasy when, acting on the policy of Satan, the rulers of the land will rank themselves on the side of the man of sin. It is then the measure of guilt is full. The national apostasy is the signal for national ruin.—Selected Messages 2:373 (1891).{LDE 134.1}

Roman Catholic principles will be taken under the care and protection of the state. This national apostasy will speedily be followed by national ruin.—The Review and Herald, June 15, 1897.{LDE 134.2}

When Protestant churches shall unite with the secular power to sustain a false religion, for opposing which their ancestors endured the fiercest persecution, then will the papal sabbath be enforced by the combined authority of church and state. There will be a national apostasy, which will end only in national ruin.—Evangelism, 235 (1899).{LDE 134.3}

When the state shall use its power to enforce the decrees and sustain the institutions of the church—then will Protestant America have formed an image to the papacy, and there will be a national apostasy which will end only in national ruin.—The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 7:976 (1910).{LDE 134.4}

Universal Sunday Legislation

History will be repeated. False religion will be exalted. The first day of the week, a common working day, possessing no sanctity whatever, will be set up as was the image of Babylon. All nations and tongues and peoples will be commanded to worship this spurious sabbath.... The decree enforcing the worship of this day is to go forth to all the world.—The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 7:976 (1897). {LDE 134.5}

As America, the land of religious liberty, shall unite with the papacy in forcing the conscience and compelling men to honor the false sabbath, the people of every country on the globe will be led to follow her example.—Testimonies for the Church 6:18 (1900).{LDE 135.1}

The Sabbath question is to be the issue in the great final conflict in which all the world will act a part.—Testimonies for the Church 6:352 (1900).{LDE 135.2}

Foreign nations will follow the example of the United States. Though she leads out, yet the same crisis will come upon our people in all parts of the world.—Testimonies for the Church 6:395 (1900).{LDE 135.3}

The substitution of the false for the true is the last act in the drama. When this substitution becomes universal God will reveal Himself. When the laws of men are exalted above the laws of God, when the powers of this earth try to force men to keep the first day of the week, know that the time has come for God to work.—The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 7:980 (1901).{LDE 135.4}

The substitution of the laws of men for the law of God, the exaltation, by merely human authority, of Sunday in place of the Bible Sabbath, is the last act in the drama. When this substitution becomes universal God will reveal Himself. He will arise in His majesty to shake terribly the earth.—Testimonies for the Church 7:141 (1902). {LDE 135.5}

The Whole World Will Support Sunday Legislation

The wicked ... declared that they had the truth, that miracles were among them, that angels from heaven talked with them and walked with them, that great power and signs and wonders were performed among them, and that this was the temporal millennium that they had been expecting so long. The whole world was converted and in harmony with the Sunday law.—Selected Messages 3:427, 428 (1884).{LDE 136.1}

The whole world is to be stirred with enmity against Seventh-day Adventists because they will not yield homage to the papacy by honoring Sunday, the institution of this antichristian power.—Testimonies to Ministers and Gospel Workers, 37 (1893).{LDE 136.2}

Those who trample upon God’s law make human laws which they will force the people to accept. Men will devise and counsel and plan what they will do. The whole world keeps Sunday, they say, and why should not this people, who are so few in number, do according to the laws of the land?—Ms 163, 1897.{LDE 136.3}

God saith! Archeology confirms!

[JoeMo]

Not a single scripture in your whole post, bud! No archeology indicating a national Sunday law. Nothing in current local, national or international politics even vaguely pointing to a national Sunday Law. Is it possible that EGW had the vision correct (the final test would be about worship); but interpreted it wrongly because of the extreme bias against Catholicism in her day?

Moe than SDA's will be persecuted in the end; it will be all Christians (maybe even other faiths, too) that refuse to bow to the Beast power. If it were just SDA's (less than 0.5% of the world's population) it wouldn't be much of a Great Tribulation. The slaughter of Jews and other minority ethnic groups comprised a greater percentage of the population than SDA's today; and it wasn't the Great Tribulation. The flood killed 99.99% of all the people in the world and it wasn't the Great Tribulation. The plague in the Middle Ages killed about 30% of all the people in Europe and Asia; and it wasn't the Great Tribulation.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Archeology confirms!

Please support.

I fail to understand.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Archeology confirms!

Please support.

I fail to understand.

I should have made it clear that archeology confirms the biblical historicity of biblical prophetic utterances.

Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

I see no reason that He wouldn't be continuing the same way for the present and last generation.

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."Luke 21:32 KJV

"Believe in the Lord your God, so shall ye be established; believe his prophets, so shall ye prosper."2 Chronicles 20:20 KJV

"Commit thy works unto the Lord, and thy thoughts shall be established."Proverbs 16:3 KJV

"But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little"Isaiah 28:13 KJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Nothing in current local, national or international politics even vaguely pointing to a national Sunday Law.

I would suggest you access AmazingDiscoveries.com and Walter Veith to help clarify your conclusion stated above.

God cares! Jesus saves!

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Not a single scripture in your whole post, bud!

I'm wondering what you would do if you were to run into any of these.

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen."John 21:25 KJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[Gregory Matthews]

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I should have made it clear that archeology confirms the biblical historicity of biblical prophetic utterances.

In your post your cited more than a dozen references to Ellen White. Then, at the end of your post you say:

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God said. Archeology confirms.

A reasonable person would believe that in your 1st post, you were citing EGW because you believed that God had spoken through her. By saying "God said. Archeology confirms." a reasonable person would believe that you were telling us that archeology confirms what EGW had said.

Now you tell us that archeology confirms prophetic utterances.

Tell me: When has archeology ever confirmed a prophetic utterance that has not yet come to pass? Yes, one can cite cases where a prophecy that has already come to pass is confirmed by archeology. But, archeology is the study of the past. Archeology is not the study of the future. I will ask you again: When has archeology ever confirmed something that has not yet happened?

So, in your listing of EGW comments regarding a future Sunday law, how can those statements, in any way, be related to your closing comment that "God says. Archeology confirms."?

[LifeHiscost]

I don't have time or inclination at the moment, to pursue the vein of your questions, Greg. It isn't out of any disrespect for you, but I've found the effort to answer questions on the forum usually proves unfruitful. And OTOH,

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A reasonable person would believe

, whoever said I was a reasonable person? However, because of this."Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."Isaiah 1:18 KJV, it is something the Lord and I are working on.

Considering my age, much of what needs to be resolved will probably be resolved in the Kingdom, maybe in the thousand years we will be reigning with Christ.

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."Revelation 20:6 KJV

One thing I have reasoned is that for any discourse to dissolve into nothing more than a, "me/you against/for you/me",

is the least desirable thing I can imagine. I'm far more inclined toward being a "seed sower" than a "cultivator", which I might add, you give a very good example of the latter, depending on who you wish to serve.

Again I would like to say, any opportunity I have to sow the seed, where so inclined, is very rewarding to someone, maybe not you or even me.

"So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."Isaiah 55:11 KJV

HOPE YOUR DAY IS A GOOD ONE. One day at a time.

P.S. I'm listening to a program right now which indicates very clearly, the effort among very many individuals seen as very successful human beings in the media, who give subtle, sometimes not so subtle, influences the archenemy is using to disestablish a generation's trust in the Creator God and the Word.

Even so, come, Lord Jesus!

God cares! Jesus saves!

[CoAspen]

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....... but I've found the effort to answer questions on the forum usually proves unfruitful.

That would be a cop 0ut, to put it bluntly! When asked for clarification and the supporting data, that is something you should be able to do, if you want to be taken seriously. To insinuate that a person will dismiss the data as a reason for not answering, does you no service.

You could simply say,'in my opinion' and then people will understand better where you are coming from.

[Gregory Matthews]

Often when I question to Life I have one of the following in mind.

1) I am not certain that I understand what he said and I want to know if I am correct.

This was a major reason for my recent question. I simply could not believe that he actually meant what I thought that he said.

Frankly, I often find that I an uncertain as to what Life has actually meant.

2) I think that he has made a factual error. So, I am giving him a chance to respond.

If Life does not want to respond that is his right. But, such increases the potential that he will not be understood.

[LifeHiscost]

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This was a major reason for my recent question. I simply could not believe that he actually meant what I thought that he said.

I need to leave to fix lunch for my wife and I just now, but I would be interested to know what you could not believe if it were what I was perceived to have meant.

Jesus/God saves!

[Gregory Matthews]

Very simple. As I read your post, you were saying that archeology confirms that there will be a national Sunday law in the United States.

I could not believe that you actually said that, so I responded in an attempt to understand you.

That is in part what JoMo was about in his response to you. In part, he read it just as I did.

I generally have a problem in reading your posts. Most of the time I do not understand what you have said, at least in part. Sometimes I just ignore it. I simply let it go. At other times, as with this one, I will respond in an attempt to understand what you are saying.

I do not point any finger of blame at you for my lack of understanding. The problem may be with me. In any case, I often have a problem in understanding what you have said. This was one time when I did not ignore it. I responded in an attempt to understand.

[LifeHiscost]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQKCRvzTJyc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhoPTvXn_t0

I'm suggesting this might be worth your time, although there have already been others who have verbally made effort to discredit this information, not surprising. Doesn't really concern me re: those that choose to disdain me, especially when I see how Jesus was scoffed at when He made effort to reveal Truth.

"This is my command: Love each other.

“If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first. The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you."John 15:17-19 NLT

"For all that is secret will eventually be brought into the open, and everything that is concealed will be brought to light and made known to all."Luke 8:17 NLT

God cares! Jesus saves!

[CoAspen]

Again, not unusual, you avoid answering really simple questions by redirecting!

Do you really understand what you are posting?

You post a couple of videos about conspiracy and discredited persons as if that gives support to your position! What position?? Greg asked you for an answer and you could not do that!!

Then you fall back on comparing yourself to Christ. You still didn't answer the question!!

You flunked the exam.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

Can you think of any other entity other than popery that has thought to change the time of one of the commandments and is in existence at the time of the end?

Shia Islam. Their holy day is Friday. They already proclaim their goal is a world-wide caliphate where everyone complies with Sharia Law - including keeping Friday as a holy day. Islam was responsible for the martyrdom of an estimated 250,000 Christians worldwide in 2013. Islam in general fits the description of denying that Christ came in the flesh way better than Catholicism.

I

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say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. (2john 1:7-8)

Couldn't find any statistics on how many non-Catholics that the Catholic church martyred in 2013 (probably because they don't do that any more).

"Popery" is sort of a purjorative term. I think most people find '"the papacy" more appropriate.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The Roman Papal Church claims its "mark" of authority is Sunday sacredness! In a letter written by Cardinal Gibbons, chancellor, on November 11, 1895, this leading Roman Catholic prelate wrote:

“Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change (from Sabbath to Sunday) was her act. It could not have been otherwise, as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything in matters spiritual and ecclesiastical and religious without her. And the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things.”

Cardinal Gibbons did not write that. But it has been attributed by SDA church members to 1) Cardinal Gibbons, 2) C.F. Thomas, supposed chancellor to Cardinal Gibbons, and 3) William Rewday, supposed secretary/chancellor to Cardinal Gibbons.

C.F. Thomas was never chancellor to Cardinal Gibbons. He was Rector of the Baltimore Cathedral where Cardinal Gibbons had been Archbishop. He was never the Cardinal's chancellor.

Catholic records never list William Rewday as being "secretary" to Cardinal Gibbons. In fact, there is no record of *any* William Rewday in the Baltimore area EVER, according to US govt documents.

It's interesting that the earliest report of this quote was in the Australasian Union Recorder of 1902, attributed to Rewday. Then it pops up in 1914 in an SDA book, "The Sabbath," by WA Westworth, 1914, Battle Creek MI.

It again pops up in the Signs Feb 9, 1918 issue, again, attributed to "William Rewday, Secretary to the Cardinal."

At some point, again in SDA literature, the author was changed to "C.F. Thomas, Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons." Again, C.F. Thomas was only the rector of the Baltimore Church - never secretary to the Cardinal.

(In 1895, the secretary to Cardinal Gibbons (who was Archbishop of Baltimore) was Rev. W.T. Russell.)

Then, in some more recent online publications on the Sabbath by SDA's and other sabbatarians, the quote is being attributed directly to Cardinal Gibbons. There's no indication whatsoever that the Cardinal wrote it, authorized it, or that it was ever written by anyone in the Catholic church.

(It doesn't, however, preclude the fact that the Catholic church fully acknowledges the fact that she changed the day of worship to Sunday.)

[CoAspen]

Don't you just love folklore, never let reality get in the way of a good quote!

Good work Pam!

[Gregory Matthews]

Even if it were true, it is poor scholarship, in this case, to clam that a document more than 100 years old is conclusive.