Idolatry begets?

[Gail]

I encountered this thought today:

"Idol worship begets other sins that debase human dignity, and we may confidently guess that the excessive indulgence of idolatry was the source of Sodom and Gomorrah's great depravity." -Rufus Randeniya, Mother Mary, p.12

How does idolatry do this?

I have often wondered about the prevalence of condemnation of the practise of idolatry in the Old Testament. Was god so against it because He is a jealous God or is there something negative that idolatry actually does to people?

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

is there something negative that idolatry actually does to people?

Anything that has a tendency to cause humans to remove their companionship and dependence on God/Jesus, if allowed to continue leads to death and a victory to the enemy of souls.

"Enoch lived 365 years, walking in close fellowship with God. Then one day he disappeared, because God took him."Genesis 5:23-24 NLT

"And all this assembly shall know that the Lord saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the Lord's"1 Samuel 17:47 KJV

God cares! Jesus saves!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

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Idol worship begets other sins that debase human dignity...

I'm not convinced that the above is necessarily true - it would depend on one's definition of "idol worship"... if by it, it's meant overt and all-consuming worship of mere reflections of Deity, then I might agree with it.

[Gail]

Here is another one... I bumped into this today:

Paul's letter to the Romans, in chapter 1, verses 18 and onward, talks about God's wrath against "godlessness and wickedness" of men. In verses 22 and 23 he talks about idolatry then links it in the next verses (24, 25) with sexual impurity.

I don't know the answer to this, just pondering why that would be.

[Kevin H]

Well, in some of the religions, such as the Baal Religion, the Canaanites believed that they needed to help Baal and the gods of life during certain cycles in fighting the Leviathan and gods of death. They believed that they helped out by uniting life forces.

They would go to temple and mix different textiles in their garments. They would mix different grains in their food, and everyone; man, women, children and pets, would all have sex with each other. They believed that if there was a famine that Baal did not have enough help.

Also, from that understanding of life forces, people would want to have kings that showed what they understood as having signs of a lot of life force that his people can have by having them as king. And also a what we know now is a completely worthless way of robbing people. But they believed that if they raped someone that they were stealing some of that person's life forces. They honestly believed that if they raped a man that some of the food that would have grown in that man's garden will now grow in their garden. That kids born to that man's flock will now be born to their flocks. That children that would have been born to that man's wife will now be born to their wife. This is what happened in Sodom.

These were part of the works that people would do trying to participate in the blessings of the gods. A righteousness by works that included cutting and suffering and human sacrifice.

Moloch was a god where they made the image out of metal and heat it until it was red hot then place their children into his open arms as a sacrifice to him.

You have a fierce looking god and you do all you can to try to please him and he still looks fierce and you are in an endless cycle of trying to please him. You have a happy looking god, and no matter what you do he looks happy at you so what ever you find to do is fine with him, so everything is right.

Yahweh offered a religion where he is all powerful and thus did not need anyone's help, only their trust in him. You don't see him so you don't see that one look or the other, but he tells us what pleases and displeases him and offers forgiveness.

[Gail]

That makes sense... Kevin, have you got any insight as to Paul's time? I'm thinking that it is no longer concerning Baal and Moloch but the religion of the Greeks and Romans. Apparently there is STILL a connection between idolatry and sexual immorality. I know about the temple prostitutes, but did that connection also permeate into the people's daily living?

This was such a strong topic in Bible times. Again and again idolatry is condemned and results in God's wrath.

I am also wondering about a possible modern counterpart.

[Kevin H]

Have to get to work, but there are a couple of other things. I am not sure just how it was for Paul. Now it was noted in the riot in Ephesus that Paul never blasphemed Artimus/Diana. Instead of attacking he just shared what enriched his life.

(a little historical note that shows Paul's growth: In Corinth there were people complaining about what he was teaching in the Synagogue and Paul said some very unkind and mean words as he left in a huff and started to teach elsewhere. However a large number of the members of the Synagogue, including the Rabbi, came to the new place Paul was teaching to learn about him. When we find the same thing happening in Ephesus, we don't find him leaving in a huff with unkind words. Instead he has an attitude that he is not there to cause problems. If his teaching was causing people to be uncomfortable that he would no longer teach in the Synagogue. He would teach someplace else where those interested could come and learn from him)

Now even in the Old Testament, a big issue was the Hebrews (by birth or conversion... both Joshua and David had a lot of conversion in their conquests) worshiping idols. The commandment was to not have any gods before Yahweh and for the Hebrews to only worship the king of the gods directly. The other nations were encouraged to just worship the god who they saw as their national god and to use that worship to be kinder people and to treat others better. The 70 nations in the table of nations was because the ancient world believed that there were the 70 national gods with El being the king god. The Hebrews came to understand that El was not only the King God but that he was the one non-created who created the others and could keep them alive or take away their lives.

A number of scholars understand the story of Sodom and Gomorrah as the 2 others being the gods in charge of Sodom and Gomorrah and related to the psalm, I think it's 110, but where Yahweh is sitting in the mist of the gods telling them to judge rightly or he will kill them. And that the issue with Sodom and Gomorrah was that they had become ungovernable and that the visit by the Lord was an investigative judgment on the gods to see if they were not doing their jobs.

In Jonah, we find him getting the sailors to worship YAHWEH. But Nineveh (Assyria) to worship God. And in history we find that around this time Assyria became monotheist, but they were worshiping the god who they saw as the national god and their behavior had remarkable improvements.

[M. T. Cross]

Kevin, I would be really interested in seeing your sources for your information. Just curious is all.

[Kevin H]

Kevin, I would be really interested in seeing your sources for your information. Just curious is all.

For which one? Some are just the books of Deuteronomy or other Biblical passages. Others are archaeology and history books and lectures. So I'll try to get more specific for where I got them. M. T. you are quite a thinker and I enjoy your comments.

[JoeMo]

Remember there is a difference between pagan gods and idols. I think pagan gods - like Baal, Dagon, and Moloch were (are?) real spiritual beings - just like Jesus is real. Idols are simply the statues that represent them. In Christianity, Jesus is real. A crucifix or a plastic jesus on your dashboard can be an idol - especially of you think having it in your car will actually protect you from accidents ot tickets. Don't roll your eyes - people actually believe that kind of stuff.

[M. T. Cross]

Originally Posted By: M. T. Cross

Kevin, I would be really interested in seeing your sources for your information. Just curious is all.

For which one? Some are just the books of Deuteronomy or other Biblical passages. Others are archaeology and history books and lectures. So I'll try to get more specific for where I got them. M. T. you are quite a thinker and I enjoy your comments.

I would like to see the archaeological sources and history book references.

The reason I ask, is often I hear (read) Christians going on about how ancient pagans did stuff, which is odd to me since for the most part modern pagans have little actual information on how ancient pagan ritual were conducted.

[Kevin H]

Ok M. T. Some have been college lectures but the major books I've used have been John Bright's "A History of Israel" and the works of William Foxwell Albright, and the Anchor Bible Commentaries.

[M. T. Cross]

Thank you Kevin, will have to have a look at those