Divorce & Idolatry

[Raphael]

1.) Does SDA offer divorce (as in divorce protocols & procedures, as in the form of divorce papers & etc.)

2.) Moses declared the provision of divorce in very specific conditions of "as long as the divorced couple never 'remarry' each other, further applying the extreme word of 'abomination'. Will couples violating this declaration be in continual "abomination", until they return to their divorced states?

3.) Does the SDA beliefs acknowledge idolatry to be forgivable, as in Hosea's marital example and can extend the same forgiving attitude to divorce (to remarry each other, despite Moses declaration of abomination)? Is there a distinct seperate line of SDA doctrinal treatment between divorce & adultery?

[Raphael]

This seems to be a super sensi-touchy subject.. if objectivity sways, no one can become too sensitive..

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

1) the SDA church manual states:

Quote:

Grounds for Divorce -Scripture recognizes adultery and/or fornication (Matt. 5:32) as well as abandonment by an unbelieving partner (1 Cor. 7:10-15) as grounds for divorce.

2) the SDA church manual does not list OT Mosaic words as a description of those who have grounds for, and go through with, divorce...

Quote:

Unfaithfulness to the marriage vow has generally been seen to mean adultery [meaning extramarital sex] and/or fornication. However, the New Testament word for fornication includes certain other sexual irregularities. (1 Cor. 6:9; 1 Tim. 1:9, 10; Rom. 1:24-27.) Therefore, sexual perversions, including incest, child sexual abuse, and homosexual practices, are also recognized as a misuse of sexual powers and a violation of the divine intention in marriage. As such they are just cause for separation or divorce.

3) I'm not sure I understand your question, " Is there a distinct separate line of SDA doctrinal treatment between divorce & adultery?"

There are some here at C/A who are on their 3rd marriages. Many more who are on their 2nd. I'm of the opinion that any effort to stigmatize someone who has divorced his/her spouse is nothing but gossip. No one except those persons involved know the extent and circumstances of the divorce.

While, of course, marriage is meant to be permanent, even the SDA church understands that circumstances exist where, for the mental health and safety of the spouse, separation and/or divorce must occur.

I'm reminded of the status of women in the 1800's and earlier. They were considered as chattel of their husbands, having virtually no rights and no voice in the courts. Husbands could violently abuse their wives, and the law (and religion) looked the other way. It was seldom (but did occur) that wives divorced their husbands.

Men, as well, are sometimes subjected to abusive wives. Again, I do not believe God would have someone, man or woman, remain in a marriage where the spouse is continually abusive, physically, emotionally, or mentally. That includes adultery and abandonment. And abandonment can include a myriad of circumstances.

That's my 2¢.....

[CoAspen]

I will double your 2 cents!

[CoAspen]

Your words also make my mind go to the question of traditional views of divorce.....are they primarily 'a man interpretation' given the ancient views of women? Also do we interpret the Bible, based on those cultural models?

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

ADULTERY ---which is FORNICATION

They are not the same. Fornication may not be adultery. The Jewish people in the time of Christ did not consider them to be the same.

[Gregory Matthews]

Asked:

Quote:

1.) Does SDA offer divorce (as in divorce protocols & procedures, as in the form of divorce papers & etc.)

2.) Moses declared the provision of divorce in very specific conditions of "as long as the divorced couple never 'remarry' each other, further applying the extreme word of 'abomination'. Will couples violating this declaration be in continual "abomination", until they return to their divorced states?

3.) Does the SDA beliefs acknowledge idolatry to be forgivable, as in Hosea's marital example and can extend the same forgiving attitude to divorce (to remarry each other, despite Moses declaration of abomination)? Is there a distinct seperate line of SDA doctrinal treatment between divorce & adultery?

Response:

1) No, the SDA denomination is not involved in this as are some other denominations.

2) No, the SDA denomination does not prohibit divorced people from remarrying each other.

3) The SDA denomination does not distinguish between idolatry as forgivable and divorce as not forgivable. See # 2 above. In the actual application (how we treat divorced people) the issues become far more complex that can be stated here. Generally we attempt to be healing.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage.

O. K. Tell us.

[Gregory Matthews]

Quote:

ADULTERY is a type of FORNICATION

FORNICATION is any unlawful sexual intercourse including adultery.

Perhaps I was not clear: The Jewish people in the time of Christ did NOT consider them to be the same. They considered adultery to involve a married person and fornication did not involve a married person.

As to a modern definition: Yes, you will find modern definitions that include adultery in the word fornication. I acknowledge that. But, that modern definition is not the Biblical definition as understood by the Jewish people in the time of Christ.

Quote:

FORNICATION can also include worshiping idols.

Yes, you have a degree of correctness in the above statement. The Bible talks about spiritual fornication. In that context you are correct. My comment was limited to sexual fornication which is the common use of the word today.

Thank you for allowing me to clarify my comment.

[Gregory Matthews]

Please be aware that I am NOT saying one is not a sin. Both adultery and fornication are a sin and both were considered a sin by the Jews in the time of Christ. It is just that those Jews considered them to be two different sins. Adultery was quite specific and fornication was much more generalized.

[8thdaypriest]

The word "fornication" means unlawful sexual practice.

In order to find out what was UN-lawful, you had to go back to THE LAW.

Which brings "the law" into the New Testament.

Which means you have to rethink just what Paul meant when he wrote that "we are not under the law".

I heard a very detailed commentary on divorce in Matthew. The teacher explained that Christ was saying that an Israelite could not marry a woman who had left her husband without the legal "certificate of divorce". That would render the new "marriage" invalid, and thus make the woman guilty of adultery.

The lecture was by a teacher named Ryan, at "Wisdom in Torah Ministries". I don't know if it would be accessible by non-members.

[Gregory Matthews]

The application of the Jewish laws on divorce varied from sect to sect within the Jewish religion:

Quote:

. . .Jesus agrees with neither the School of Shammai nor with the School of Hillel about the matters of divorce. The Mishnah in question reads "The School of Shammai says: "A man may not divorce his wife unless he has found unchastity in her, for it is written, {Because he finds something obnoxious in her--Deut. 24.1.}' And the School of Hilel says: "He may divorce her even if she spoils a dish for him, for it is written, {Because he finds something obnoxious in her.} Rabbi Akiba says, {Even if he found another more beautiful that she, for it is written {she fails to please him.} Both schools interpret the phraase "Ervat davar" Something Obnoxious, the former as adultery, the latter either as a general expression of something displeasing or odious, or this enigmatic phraase might mean that she does not please him sexually.

The above was written by Rabbi Samuel Tobias Lachas, in: A RABBINIC COMMENTARY ON THE NEW TESTAMENT: THE GOSPELS OF MATTHEW, MARK AND LUKE. KTAV Publishing House, New Jersey and The Anti-defamation League of B'Nai B'Rith of New York. 1984,page 99.

[Raphael]

Qoute:

1) No, the SDA denomination is not involved in this as are some other denominations.

2) No, the SDA denomination does not prohibit divorced people from remarrying each other.

3) The SDA denomination does not distinguish between idolatry as forgivable and divorce as not forgivable. See # 2 above. In the actual application (how we treat divorced people) the issues become far more complex that can be stated here. Generally we attempt to be healing.

I thought i knew everything about SDAism.. Thanks Gregory Matthews

[Gregory Matthews]

How we treat divorced people: In general, the SDA Church attempts to be healing. In actual practice, sometimes people fall short. There are probably people reading this thread who will testify to that. But, there will be others who will testify to an attempt at healing.

In dealing with SDA clergy, an important factor is often whether or not that pastor involved will be able to successfully continue to pastor a congregation. In my experience, often times the pastor involved will not believe that they can continue as a pastor and will resign.

Some SDA congregations will be willing to accept a divorced/single/never married pastor. Other congregations may have problems due to personal dynamics. E.G. When one of the involved persons is a relative (or has a strong personal relationship) with a congregational member. Also, it is a real problem when one person has been sexually involved with a congregational member.

NOTE: The SDA denomination has a strong stand when a pastor has been involved in an illicit sexual relationship with another person.

[Raphael]

Quote by Rudywoofs

Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:08 PM

1) the SDA church manual states:

Quote:

Grounds for Divorce -Scripture recognizes adultery and/or fornication (Matt. 5:32) as well as abandonment by an unbelieving partner (1 Cor. 7:10-15) as grounds for divorce.

The word "abandonment" can be quite broad in meaning.. Can this apply to sexual/intimacy abandonement?

[Raphael]

By the way, just to clear up:

What I mean by adultery..

Is all acts of infidelity.. Minus 1 exception: legal divorce

What I mean by divorce.. Is legal binding legal divorce as in binding to governing laws n statutes

[Raphael]

The adultery case is exemplified by the story of prophet Hosea, who was divinely commanded to marry a [censored], who kept returning to her [censored] ways but kept being forgiven by Hosea on God's command.

The divorce state is defined by Moses' laws.. Upon the first time issue of "legal divorce" in Biblical history.. And exhorted "abomination" to any daring to "undo" this divorce

[joeb]

Jesus said that they only reason Moses was told to allow divorce was because of because of "the hardness of your hearts".   I don't think the SDA church, or any of Christianity, is immune to that.  

 

I believe, but can't verify this right now, that the root Greek word translated as "hardness of heart" is the same as that for scleroderma which is the hardening of the skin and connective tissues so that they are no longer pliable.  This inability to be pliable with our mates is the at the very heart of divorce.  Another word for it is selfishness.