Stan Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 When I was become an Adventist is seemed to me at the time, that the pass/fail bar was based on if you smoked or drank... At the time knew smokers who were among the most generous compassion people. It seemed weird to me.. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 20, 2014 Members Posted July 20, 2014 when I was young, not only was it smoking and drinking, but also included dancing, jewelry, and movies... It was weird to me as well, as those activities precluded 90+% of my relatives...and they were all nice people... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
JoeMo Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 There are a lot of people in the church that still discretely smoke, drink, eat pork and shellfish, etc. Flash - there are even closet gays within the church. They are good and generous people; just "discrete" ( or hypocritical - depending on your point of view). Quote
Administrators debbym Posted July 20, 2014 Administrators Posted July 20, 2014 yes as i was growing up smoking and drinking was demonized. but it was ok to yell, and beat, and ridicule. Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar.
bonnie Posted July 20, 2014 Posted July 20, 2014 There are a lot of people in the church that still discretely smoke, drink, eat pork and shellfish, etc. Flash - there are even closet gays within the church. They are good and generous people; just "discrete" ( or hypocritical - depending on your point of view). Sounds like we should be grateful for those good,generous and discrete members.Without them it doesn't sound like much of a denomination with to much to offer. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
LifeHiscost Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Quote: Sounds like we should be grateful for those good,generous and discrete members. Without them it doesn't sound like much of a denomination with to much to offer. My brother died of heart failure at about the age of 70, gradually suffocating to death from emphysema as a result of smoking all his life. At the price of cigarets today, I have the opportunity to support one family of four, for about 30 days in a 3rd world country as a result of trading the habit of smoking in place of their welfare. Seems like a fair trade to me. Especially in the light of this counsel. "Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 KJV Not to mention the fact that if he hadn't lost his life to health problems caused by an unnecessary habit, his family and friends could have enjoyed his company for many more years than they had with him. He was a friendly and generous person whom I expect to meet in heaven as he met Jesus before he died and evidence was found in his personal effects indicating he was heading in the right direction. God is love. Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted July 21, 2014 Moderators Posted July 21, 2014 Quote: There are a lot of people in the church that still . . . . The SDA denomination is dealing with a fundamental issue here which is: What is the function of membership in a congregation? Is it to be a so-called "hospital for imperfect sinners?" Or, is it to be a refuge for people who have attained a certain level of behavioral living? Here in North America are often struggling with this issue. Pastors and Church Boards are dealing with it. Conference Presidents are finding that it is often not easy to formulate an answer. If you recall previous article in denominational magazines, written by leadership, innovative approaches have come into play as people have attempted to come to a Biblical position on this issue. In the meantime, people are not always happy. Quote Gregory
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 21, 2014 Members Posted July 21, 2014 I'm not sure that some remember that church *membership* doesn't equate with church *attendance*... but should "I'm trying to stop [insert your favorite vice]" be considered when asking for church membership? or must one be an "already overcomer" in order to be a bona fide church member? (It's interesting that I was never asked any doctrinal questions when I was baptized. And nobody asked if I wanted to be a member of the SDA church.) Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
pierrepaul Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Smoking is an easy one since it can usually be answered by a yes or no. It is both unnatural and addictive, such that most non-smokers are "perfect" non-smokers in that they never smoke and aren't ever tempted to smoke; while smokers are often addicted and struggle with quitting. Thus it is easy to classify people as smokers or non-smokers; there is little "gray" area. But if one were to ask "are you a gossiper", "do you commit the sin of pride", "do you commit the sin of gluttony", the answers by most would be more nuanced. Quote God never said "Thou shalt not think".
Woody Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Best solution is to just do away with official 'membership' so that we don't have to keep judging the saints. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 21, 2014 Members Posted July 21, 2014 Best solution is to just do away with official 'membership' so that we don't have to keep judging the saints. the church would dissolve like slug sprinkled with salt... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Woody Posted July 21, 2014 Posted July 21, 2014 Many nondenominational church flourish with no membership/judging. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 21, 2014 Members Posted July 21, 2014 the SDA church is *not* "non-denominational"... big difference. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Moderators Bravus Posted July 21, 2014 Moderators Posted July 21, 2014 Matthew 25 Quote Truth is important
Woody Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 the SDA church is *not* "non-denominational"... big difference. Interesting. What differences do you see? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Woody Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 Matthew 25 Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted July 22, 2014 Members Posted July 22, 2014 if some who are SDA are keen on not having their membership in the SDA church or any other denominational church, perhaps it would be helpful to their psyches to have their membership dropped... they can still support the church monetarily if they so choose...but they can't vote (nor should they).. and their free subscription to the NPUC Gleaner will need to be changed to a paid subscription. Denominational membership is a way to communicate to church members in a wide sphere. Even nondem churches keep a membership list for organizational and communication purposes. (yes, they *do* have memberships - they couldn't plan or function without it) Perhaps Stan should make C/A "free" and have no membership... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Sojourner Posted July 22, 2014 Posted July 22, 2014 I suspect that there are a number of good non denominational churches, yet the reverse can also be true. Sometimes it occurs that a church becomes Non Denominational because the leadership are unwilling to submit to the Elders of their respective denomination and leave, often it is over some trivial issue and they then have delusions of grandeur of setting up their own non denominational group or denomination that has no calling at all from God to exist. Often these places then continue to splinter in membership and can get into false theology being that they are unwilling to be accountable to anyone for their actions. My experience with two such groups was that Heavy Shepherding and the Prosperity Gospel both went pretty much unchecked and either of them are in existence any more after repeated splintering and fighting amongst the congregation. Sometimes the grass may well appear to be greener, yet that is not always the case either. Quote
M. T. Cross Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Smoking is an easy one since it can usually be answered by a yes or no. It is both unnatural and addictive, such that most non-smokers are "perfect" non-smokers in that they never smoke and aren't ever tempted to smoke; while smokers are often addicted and struggle with quitting. Thus it is easy to classify people as smokers or non-smokers; there is little "gray" area. So I have not had a smoke in 3 months. Not one. But I still want them at times, still crave them, and still addicted. I could have one before this day is over. Or maybe never again in my life. I would say there is some grey area there. Quote
Administrators Gail Posted July 24, 2014 Administrators Posted July 24, 2014 Checklist again... Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
JoeMo Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Quote: So I have not had a smoke in 3 months. Not one. But I still want them at times, still crave them, and still addicted. I could have one before this day is over. Or maybe never again in my life. Good for you, MT! Great testimony (if it's OK with you to call it that)! Quote
JoeMo Posted July 24, 2014 Posted July 24, 2014 Quote: I suspect that there are a number of good non denominational churches, yet the reverse can also be true. Sometimes it occurs that a church becomes Non Denominational because the leadership are unwilling to submit to the Elders of their respective denomination and leave What about Jesus? He refused to submit to the "elders" (aka Sanhedrin) and the killed Him. One of the churches I attend became non-denominational because the "elders" (Conference) threatened to kick us out. So we left quietly rather than subject ourselves or the conference to undue drama. Quote
Administrators Gail Posted July 24, 2014 Administrators Posted July 24, 2014 So I have not had a smoke in 3 months. Not one. But I still want them at times, still crave them, and still addicted. I could have one before this day is over. Or maybe never again in my life. I would say there is some grey area there. Another milestone! Keep up the good work :) Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
Moderators Bravus Posted July 24, 2014 Moderators Posted July 24, 2014 Based on the words of Jesus, only one thing matters: The Kingdom of Heaven. It starts right here, right now. If you're in the Kingdom of Heaven, neither being a member nor not being a member of any other group or denomination means a thing. If you're not in the Kingdom of Heaven, likewise. Quote Truth is important
Administrators Gail Posted July 24, 2014 Administrators Posted July 24, 2014 Based on the words of Jesus, only one thing matters: The Kingdom of Heaven. It starts right here, right now. If you're in the Kingdom of Heaven, neither being a member nor not being a member of any other group or denomination means a thing. If you're not in the Kingdom of Heaven, likewise. Great starting point for anyone spiritually-minded, as well as a returning point! Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
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