A Lesson In SS

[Samie]

From SS Quarterly Lesson 4, 3rd Qtr, 2014, p32:

Quote:

Not only is the Father involved, but the Son also has a very active role in our salvation. He came with a definite mission. “ ‘The Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost’ ” (Luke 19:10, NKJV). Whenever we contemplate Him lifted up from the earth, He draws us to Himself (John 12:32).

Actually, here's what Jesus said:

Quote:

NKJV John 12:32-33 32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." 33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

Jesus was saying it was through His death that He will draw all to Himself. I wonder how our contemplation went into the picture that unless we contemplate, He can't draw us to Himself.

It appears that the lesson presents a works-based salvation. God made an offer. Unless one believes, he can't have it. God holds out a gift. Unless one accepts it, he can't have it.

The world is dead; spiritually dead. Jesus came to give it life. Unless the dead ACCEPTS Him, he remains dead, telling us that while spiritually dead, the sinner is required to do the spiritual act of ACCEPTING God's offer for him to become spiritually alive.

It paints a picture of the sinner being CAPABLE of doing a spiritual act while still spiritually dead, in opposition to Christ's own words: Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING (John 15:5).

Why NOT start with God MAKING us ALL - Adam & Eve and all their descendants - spiritually alive first, through Jesus death and resurrection? And NOW that we are alive, we can do all spiritual acts. How about that?

[Kevin H]

Samie: Although you might have a few ideas that sound too Calvinistic thrown in, I believe that you see something. Too often we have made Christianity be "Say the proper words about Jesus and give a history lesson and thou shalt be saved." This automatically excludes from salvation Jews and Muslims, and Buddhists and anyone else who does not become a conscious Christian.

I understand that upon the fall, where we developed our sinful nature, which is a disposition to think we are for ourselves by making less of the outside world; that in Genesis 3:15 God gave to mankind our deepest desire. It is NOT ONLY the promise of the Messiah, but that there is something in all of us that stands in opposition to our sinful nature, fighting it and is even stronger than our sinful nature. Our desire to be like and with Jesus.

The Holy Spirit works with everyone pointing to Jesus, whether they ever heard of his time on earth or not. Everyone is constantly choosing leading us more and more towards either putting our sinful nature in charge of our lives, or yielding to the Holy Spirit pointing to Jesus.

There is something about what Jesus did by being lifted up that transcends contemplating what he did. Granted this is very useful and knowing what happened and being conscious about who Jesus is gives us a deepening of this experience, and there is definitely a role for missionaries. But we need to balance this with the idea that the power of what Jesus did on the cross transcends our missionary work.

I once heard a Jim Ayers Sabbath School Lesson study, and if I understood him correctly, he pointed out that before Augustine that the church felt that what Jesus did on the cross was so powerful that it saved everyone except those who actively refused it and that mission work was sharing with people what Jesus did for them. However Augustine changed this into everyone being lost until they actively accept Jesus and that the church has since taught Augustine instead of the Bible.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

what Jesus did on the cross was so powerful that it saved everyone except those who actively refused it and that mission work was sharing with people what Jesus did for them.

I'm pretty much in agreement with this view. It seemsto be in linewith John 3:16-17 - "God so loved the WORLD"...

Wha about those who have nevr heard of Jesus or are to mentally broken or immature (like babies)to understand? They will have an oppotunity at their resurrection to make that choice.

[Samie]

Samie: Although you might have a few ideas that sound too Calvinistic thrown in, I believe that you see something.

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[Samie]

...

Wha about those who have nevr heard of Jesus or are to mentally broken or immature (like babies)to understand? They will have an oppotunity at their resurrection to make that choice.

[JoeMo]

Quote:

by sending His Son Who gave them life FIRST & FOREMOST, by attaching us all to His Body on the cross. When He died, we His Body died with Him and when He resurrected God resurrected us together with Him making us spiritually alive, born again into a living hope of life eternal. But only those who overcome evil with good while alive will not be blotted out from the book of life when they die.

Right on, Samie.

Question - are we saved if and only if we actively accept Jesus' free gift of salvation, or are we saved unless we actively reject Jesus' gift? There is a difference. I understand that this will be your opinion; and I'm sure people will agree or disagree with you. My opinion - I feel strongly both ways...

[Kevin H]

Samie, I agree. All I was saying was that your language in the first post had a couple of places that sounded a bit Calvinistic. I definitely saw that despite some of what some of the words sounded like, that you were certainly not being Calvinistic. Frequently we do not see eye to eye but I think you are seeing something here.

[Samie]

Quote:

by sending His Son Who gave them life FIRST & FOREMOST, by attaching us all to His Body on the cross. When He died, we His Body died with Him and when He resurrected God resurrected us together with Him making us spiritually alive, born again into a living hope of life eternal. But only those who overcome evil with good while alive will not be blotted out from the book of life when they die.

Right on, Samie.

Question - are we saved if and only if we actively accept Jesus' free gift of salvation, or are we saved unless we actively reject Jesus' gift? There is a difference. I understand that this will be your opinion; and I'm sure people will agree or disagree with you. My opinion - I feel strongly both ways...

Very good question. To answer it, let me again cite that Salvation comes in 3 tenses: past, present, future.

1. The Past Tense of Salvation is what God through Christ did for Man. This started BEFORE the foundation of the world when He chose Adam & Eve with all their descendants to be the children of God through Christ, wrote all our names in the book of life from the foundation of the world, and found its comprehensive fulfillment in the life, death and resurrection of our Lord. All Grace. ZERO human participation. All benefited. God's work FOR man.

2. The Present Tense of Salvation starts the moment one is physically conceived and ends at his physical death or at the 2nd Coming, whichever comes first. All benefit from it. Having been attached to Christ, all are EMPOWERED to overcome evil with good. When one sins, the sin committed, having been forgiven on the cross, is not counted against the sinner. In fact, God remembers our sins no more. But the act of sinning is proof one has not overcome the evil of sinning yet. But there's still hope while alive.

If one continues in disbelief till he dies, he will be blotted out for NOT overcoming the evil of disbelief. Each one has his OWN list of God's will written in his heart and mind. It is the Holy Spirit Who brings to remembrance what God wrote in each of us INDIVIDUALLY. It is the Holy Spirit Who guides and leads us. But WE OURSELVES decide whether to follow His leading or not. This is why we are each ACCOUNTABLE. This is why we will be rewarded according to what we have done. AT death, our names are either retained or blotted from the book of life. If I have overcome evil with good, my name is retained; otherwise, my name gets blotted out. God works IN man and man responds.

3. The Future Tense of Salvation starts when Jesus returns and continues till eternity. Only those whose names REMAIN written in the book of life will POSITIVELY benefit from it by inheriting life eternal and get ushered into the heavenly mansions. All others will be rewarded with the wrath of God. God rewards man.

Many get confused because they think SALVATION comes in one single piece.

[Samie]

Samie, I agree. All I was saying was that your language in the first post had a couple of places that sounded a bit Calvinistic. I definitely saw that despite some of what some of the words sounded like, that you were certainly not being Calvinistic. Frequently we do not see eye to eye but I think you are seeing something here.

I am just glad you think I am seeing something. Thank you, my brother, and I praise God for that.

[Samie]

Continuing with my response to Bro JoeMo:

1. "are we saved if and only if we actively accept Jesus' free gift of salvation"?

In the light of the 3 tenses of salvation, WE have been saved BEFORE we actively accept Jesus' free gift of salvation. Acceptance falls under the present tense of salvation. If a person had been taught about what Jesus did, then by all means the Holy Spirit had lead him to that knowledge as He did with the Ethiopian eunuch. If he persistently rejects that knowledge despite the Holy Spirit's leading, then his name gets blotted out when he dies and he will not positively benefit from the future tense of salvation.

For those who were not given the privilege of knowing about Jesus, they will NOT be held accountable for that. All of us will be measured in accordance with what God had written in our hearts and minds.

2. "or are we saved unless we actively reject Jesus' gift?" Rejection of Jesus' gift is one evil one has to overcome. Again, that falls under the present tense of salvation. If one persistently rejects Jesus despite the Holy Spirit's prompting until he dies, then he did not overcome the evil of rejecting Jesus. His name will be blotted out and he will not positively benefit from the future tense of salvation.

[JoeMo]

Thanks, Brother Samie.

I followed that; and the 3 tenses of salvation makes a lot of sense. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it all; but I think you are on to something.

[Samie]

That's gracious of you, Bro JoeMo.

A 3D view always provides a better view of anything. Same principle applies to the gospel of Christ. The 3 tenses of salvation easily translate to the 3 dimensions of the gospel.