trumpet replay hypothesis

[chryss07]

Hello,

Please consider this interpretation hypothesis, based on the idea the Revelation's trumpets could be repeated in a matter of calendar days:

Trumpet Replay Hypothesis

I think the underlying theological arguments are strong enough to justify publishing this theory such as it will become known to the Adventist believers. This does not mean accepting it as a fact, but only publishing it such as it could serve as a reference point, awaiting the actual political developments.. which are predicted to be quite dramatic, between now and the advanced date for the Loud Cry Movement: 7-Oct-2014.

Please consider this prayerfully, and let me know what you think!

Blessings,

Christian

[chryss07]

Has anyone watched this material? I am very curious to hear your thoghts on it!

 

Blessings,

Christian

[Stan]

I think you will find, that unless someone has a hugh interest in a video, they will generally not watch more than 3 minutes.

 

Can you punch the message down to 3 minutes and then give the link to the longer one for those interested?

[Kevin H]

Yes, a brief synopsis would be useful. I believe that there is a point here. Miller had historical applications of the seals, trumpets and plagues over history. Mrs. White's writings tended to follow his views of the seals (although not dogmatic about it) but clearly placed the plagues at the end, and the statement "Trump after trump must sound, plague after plague must fall" indicates that she placed the trumpets at the end.

 

I've heard an interesting study based on the Chiasm of Revelation (and taking out that questionable interpretation that the first side is history the second side is prophecy) which suggests that the Trumpets are the FINAL trials and tribulations that either push us to selflessness and caring and character development or push us to character development of selfishness and looking out for number 1 that leads to the close of probation. And the Plagues are the results of the selfishness and how the selfless respond under the time of Jacob's trouble, the Job experience after the close of probation.

[hch]

Hello,

Please consider this interpretation hypothesis, based on the idea the Revelation's trumpets could be repeated in a matter of calendar days:

Trumpet Replay Hypothesis

I think the underlying theological arguments are strong enough to justify publishing this theory such as it will become known to the Adventist believers. This does not mean accepting it as a fact, but only publishing it such as it could serve as a reference point, awaiting the actual political developments.. which are predicted to be quite dramatic, between now and the advanced date for the Loud Cry Movement: 7-Oct-2014.

Please consider this prayerfully, and let me know what you think!

Blessings,

Christian

 

My ISP is to slow to watch videos, but the topic is worthy of consideration.

 

IMHO: The trumpets are like the Israelis marching around Jericho.

 

They compassed the city daily for 6 days and on the 7th, the went around 7 times.

 

Historically the first trumpets have sounded and in the endtime the trumpets will blast 7 times.

 

If that is a true analogy then we should be able to match the sounding of the trumpets with current events.

 

It worked for the pioneers and it should work in the endtime if trumpets repeat in the endtime.

[hch]

Yes, a brief synopsis would be useful. I believe that there is a point here. Miller had historical applications of the seals, trumpets and plagues over history. Mrs. White's writings tended to follow his views of the seals (although not dogmatic about it) but clearly placed the plagues at the end, and the statement "Trump after trump must sound, plague after plague must fall" indicates that she placed the trumpets at the end...

 

Revelation 8:5  "And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. [6]  And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound."

 

From these verses, it appears that:

 

1) Trumpets are for warning the people

2) This is an angel casting in the censer not Jesus declaring "It is done"

3) Voices

4) Thunderings

5) Lightnings

6) Earthquake

 

Voices?

Is the 3rd angel's message "Thundering" sounding the final warning?

Is there any "lightnings" shining on endtime events?

Any earth shaking events to waken God's people?

 

These are the warnings:

 

8:7 ¶  The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

 

1) Hail

2) Fire

3) Blood

4) Cast on the earth (literal or symbolic of America?)

5) Third part burned up

 

We have hail storms.

Fires are burning in America's west.

And ISIS is killing Americans (and everybody who does not agree with them)

 

Is any of that prophecy fulfilled?

 

8:8  "And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;"

 

1) Burning mountain into the sea

2) sea became blood

 

Mountain as I read it is from a root "to go up and to come down"

We have sent things up into orbit and they have come down

 

An American satellite as big as a school bus crashed into the Pacific a few years ago

And Russia lost contact with one of theirs that crashed into the Pacific shortly after that

 

And the Gulf Oil spill spewed the blood of "dead men" into the sea until we finally got it stopped

 

Does any of that remotely fit the prophecy?

Or are we to wait for something dramatic like the International Space Station crashing to earth like a flame of fire?

 

If the ISS like "a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea" would that fulfill the prophetic trumpet warning?

 

Should the ISS come down in a blaze of glory, many will argue that the trumpets are repeating.

 

Conversely many will argue that it is coincidental.

 

But the ISS could crash at any time even as soon as 22 October 2014.

 

We can speculate on possible prophetic scenarios, but until prophecy is fulfilled...

How can we match the prophecy with the fulfillment?

 

And when prophecy is fulfilled,

How will we know that the event is the fulfillment of Bible prophecy?

 

Most folks seem to think their opinion is all they need

but they don't really know beans about prophecy because they do not study it

[chryss07]

It seems the predictions made for October 7th have been fulfilled. According to the trumpet replay interpretation, we were supposed to witness a symbolic act of capitulation of the anti-western forces: over the 4-6 October weekend, a North Korean delegation made a surprise visit to South Korea, trying to re-start the dialogue interrupted 5 years ago. This happened while Mr. Kim Jong Un had not been seen in public for about one month, fueling speculations about a possible coup:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/north-korean-officials-pay-surprise-visit-to-the-south/2014/10/04/383e76f1-f39c-4c10-9889-12bfce88e150_story.html

 

If indeed this proves to mark a turning point in the history of N. Korea, it will make for a remarkable prophecy fulfillment! It fits very well within the Trumpet Replay Hypothesis, as back in April 2013 just a few days prior to the Boston Marathon bombing, Mr. Kim made headlines all over the world when he threatened US with nuclear attack:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2303227/North-Korea-nuclear-weapons-attack-US-approved-Kim-Jong-Un-Chuck-Hagel-warns-clear-present-danger.html

 

Now, at the end of the period, his attitude seems to be very much softer..

[chryss07]

The fulfillment of the October 7th predictions comes in addition to the previous fulfillment on 9/11/13 represented by the following events:

 

A) capitulation of the American administration on 9/11/13 in connection to the chemical attack in Syria

the terror attack in Nairobi, Kenya on 9/21/2013

 

These events are practically independent of each other, so the probability of their conjunction is computed by multiplying the respective probabilities:

1/18,250 (1 in 50 years) * 1/180 (1 in 5 years allowing for a 10 days window) * 1/1,825 (1 in 5 years) = 1 in 6 billion, that is about 16,000 times more surprising than successfully predicting the fall of the Roman Empire on a specific day!! (the Roman Empire fell twice during the last 2000 years, so the chances for it to happen on a specific day are given as 1 in 365,000)

 

Supposing the predictions to have been fulfilled, I have developed the interpretation to reach the date of the Second Coming, after identifying the Abomination of Desolation spoken of in Daniel 12:11 with the pivot date of Trumpet Replay : 9/11/13 (whose disastrous numeric significance should be very clear!), based on the principle described in here: http://biblelight.net/brink-of-end.htm#12 . 

 

And here is the result:

 

Close of Probation: 2/22/2017

Special Resurrection: 3/24/2017

Second Coming: 5/8/2017

 

The date of the Second Coming allows us to draw a very interesting and deeply meaningful parallel between the Second World War (as May 8th is the Victory Day over Nazi Germany) and the final conflict:

 

i) during WWII, a beast-like political power (Nazi Germany) fights for global political domination, while seeking to destroy the Jewish people (the physical Israel) / during the final conflict, a spiritual power (the Revelation 13 Beast) seeks global spiritual supremacy, while trying to destroy spiritual Israel (the Adventist Christians)

 

ii) WWII can be considered to have started on 9/11/1941 when president F.D. Roosevelt ordered the American escort vessels to open fire on the attacking German and Italian ships.

 

iii) both Nazi Germany and the Revelation 13 Beast have a mortal wound but nevertheless seem invincible at the beginning of the conflict

 

iv) at the end of WWII most belligerent nations are almost completely devastated / at the end of the final conflict, the entire earth will be desolate

 

v) after the final victory, the war criminals are being judged: the Nuremberg tribunals in 1947 / the saints will judge the wicked in heaven during the millennium

 

The dates are also meaningful according to the Jewish calendar: the 4/16/2017 Passover Sunday commemorating of the resurrection of Jesus lies exactly in the middle of the proposed dates for the two resurrections: 3/24/2017 (Special Resurrection) and 5/8/2017 (General Resurrection).

 

So in short, the coincidences are just too many to explain away. But please let me know what you think about this! Is there something I am not getting right, or this thing is indeed very very big?..

 

The YouTube material can be accessed in here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbf1HYi0XN8

 

Blessings,

Christian

[CherylG]

I prayfully studied this topic last year. I don't claim to have all the answers or have all the little details sorted out or say I am right. Only time will tell as we see the world wrap up.

 

 

 

The 7 trumpets

 

Some of the trumpets I believe have had their place in history, however from the study I have been doing I believe the trumpets to have a dual meaning and occur not long before Jesus comes.  

The sounding of these trumpets are warnings and judgments 

The first four trumpets I believe are literal;

Before starting the trumpets lets look at Rev 7:1-3

7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 
7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 
7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees,  till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.          

These verses talk of 2 events : hurting earth,sea, trees & sealing the servants(144000) in their foreheads.

Verse 3 is interesting, as we will see later in the 5th trumpet.

Trumpet 1/  V7   Hail, fire mingles with blood- these were cast to the earth to burn up 1/3 trees and all green grass

Trumpet 2/ V8   A great mountain with fire is cast into the sea , 1/3 of the sea becomes blood ( or red in colour)

                V9   1/3 of the creatures in the sea ( fish, animal life in sea etc) that were alive, Die. 

Why?  Possibly because the great mountain (could be meteors,asteroid) fall into the sea and poisoning the sea water killing sea life.

                       1/3 of the ships ( real ships & boats) are destroyed.

WHY?  because the great mountain most likely causes a tidal wave or the impact causes destruction.

Trumpet 3 V10  A great star from heaven (called wormwood) burning, it fell on 1/3 of the rivers and streams. 

               V11 1/3 of the waters became wormwood/bitter.                                                                   Men/people died (WHY? because the water was poisoned/bitter). 

 

Trumpet 4 V12  1/3 of the sun was struck/smitten 1/3 part moon & 1/3 part of the stars.  1/3 of each of them (sun moon stars) are darkened so they did not shine.

V13 The angel fly's through the heavens saying woe, woe woe (3 more trumpets to sound) to the people who live on the earth.

Destruction has already been so great but the next three trumpets will bring great sorrow and distress.

 

 

 

 

The next 3 trumpets I believe are speaking in symbolic language.

“The wrath of Satan increases as his time grows short, and his work of deceit and destruction reaches its culmination in the time of trouble. God’s long-suffering has ended. The world has rejected His mercy, despised His love, and trampled upon His law. The wicked have passed the boundary of their probation, and the Lord withdraws His protection, and leaves them to the mercy of the leader they have chosen. Satan will have power over those who have yielded themselves to his control, and he will plunge the inhabitants of the earth into one great, final trouble. As the angels of God cease to hold in check the fierce winds of human passion, all the elements of strife will be let loose. The whole world will be involved in ruin more terrible than that which came upon Jerusalem of old.”                                      {White, Ellen G.; Maranatha, p. 275.}

Trumpet 5 chapter 9:V 1  A great star falls from heaven to earth - to HIM is given the key of the bottomless pit

This fallen star I believe is satan (rev 12:7-9 / Luke 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Stars are often symbols of angels (Judges 5:20, Job 38:7) 

note: rev 20:1 Gods angel has a key so this key is given to the great fallen star (satan) He has been given permission by God to torment, persecute and cause destruction.

                             V2-3  Satan opens the bottomless pit, smoke comes out of the pit and darkens the air and V3 shows how Locusts come out of the smoke and go upon the earth.

Darkness = Evil.  These Locusts have the ability to hurt with their scorpion like tails. The Locusts I believe are evil angels that have been given power/ permission (from God) to torment and persecute and deceive.  By both ungodly people and evil angels manifesting as man.                           

The bottomless pit is a place where evil angels are confined. 2 Peter 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;  

                           V4 They (the Locusts- evil angels/spirits) have been commanded (from God) NOT to hurt the grass of the earth,, any green thing or any tree. ONLY TO HURT who have NOT THE SEAL OF GOD IN THEIR FOREHEADS. The grass, green thing or trees, they are about people, not nature. The grass, green things and trees cannot be harmed. Why? They represent good people. They are contrasted with those who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads. Grass” is symbolic for people (Isaiah 40:3-8). “Trees” also represent people, especially leaders – some good (Psalms 52:8, 92:12-14; Jeremiah 11:16, 17:7-8), some bad (Psalm 37:35, Micah 7:4, Nahum 1:10). “Green things” is a general figure for mankind, living beings.

                           V5 The Locusts (evil angels) were not to kill them (people with no seal of God) they are tormented  for 5 months .

                           V6 These people will seek to die but will not find death.

                           V7-10 Describes the shapes of the Locusts (evil angels) They are pictured as prepared for warfare/battle. “The horse is prepared against the day of battle: but safety is of the LORD” (Proverbs 21:31).

Their deceptive mission is harm and destruction. 

                          V11 The king over them is the angel of the bottomless pit Abaddon = destroyer / Apollyon = I destroy.

This refers to satan.

Trumpet 6           V 13-21 The angels that are bound at the great river Euphrates are let loose.

The number of them is great (two hundred thousand thousand- John hears the number of them)

1/3 part of mankind (those who do not have Gods seal) are killed.

 

Trumpet 7  chapter 11 V15-19 Talks of the time that God will act and intervene for his people and his fury to be on those who hurt his people and destroy them & the earth.  The temple in heaven displays the ark of his testament (10 commandments)  and there is lightning, thundering and an earthquake & great hail (this coincides with plague 7 in  Rev 17-21)  and Jesus will now come.

[chryss07]

If the trumpets are going to be repeated just before Jesus comes, this would almost certainly apply also to the time periods associated with the 5th and 6th trumpets: 150 days and 591 days respectively, and this would give us a chronology of the end time events leading up to the Loud Cry movement. This chronology would actually constitute a repeat of the history leading up to the 1844 Adventist proclamation, only in a matter of literal days instead of calendar years:

 

Date0  -> (150 days - repeat of the 5th trumpet) -> Date1 -> (591 days - repeat of the 6th trumpet) -> Date2

 

Date0 would correspond to the violent attack against Nicomedia in 1299, so we would most probably witness a violent attack directed against Western interests.

 

"Date1" would correspond to the Fall of Constantinople in 1449/1453. This event represents the fall of a Christian nation into the hands of the unbelieving Muslim armies led by Mohammad II and therefore can be assimilated with the "Abomination of Desolation" spoken of by Jesus in Mathew 24:15 that had its first application to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD to the armies of pagan Rome. On this date we should see a political act of capitulation of the Western governments followed in a matter of days by a violent attack against Western interests, corresponding to the 1449 Byzantine capitulation and the 1453 fall of Byzantium to the Turkish armies.

 

"Date2" would correspond to the Turkish Ottoman capitulation in 1840, so we should witness an act of capitulation of the anti-Western forces. Only in a matter of days afterwards, the Loud Cry movement is supposed to start, representing a repeat of the 1844 proclamation:

 

"I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Revelation 18:1, 2, 4.

This scripture points forward to a time when the announcement of the fall of Babylon, as made by the second angel of Revelation 14 (verse 8), is to be repeated, with the additional mention of the corruptions which have been entering the various organizations that constitute Babylon, since that message was first given, in the summer of 1844. (EGW, "Last Warning" chapter from "The Great Controversy")

 

And now let us think about it for a moment: the 1844 movement was occasioned by W. Miller's prophetic interpretation of the 2300 days prophecy from Daniel 8 and had been supported by the 1840 fulfillment of Josiah Litch's prediction concerning the fall of the Ottoman empire; doesn't it look like the Loud Cry movement will similarly be occasioned by a time related prophetic interpretation? Otherwise, why would it occur according to this scheme just a few days after the "Date2" political event, if not for the reason that this event would come as a fulfillment of prophecy which would then help mobilize the church into the last Gospel call?..

 

Also, by assimilating the "Date1" events with the "Abomination of Desolation" we would get a precise timeline up to the Second Coming of Jesus, based on the time periods from Daniel 12:7,11-12:

 

Date1 -> (1260 days - period of persecution) -> Close of Probation -> (30 days) -> Special Resurrection -> (45 days) -> Second Coming

 

I think all this follows pretty much logically from the assumption the trumpets are being repeated just before the Second Coming of Jesus.

 

Now I think I was able to identify the precise moment of trumpet repeat:

 

Date0 = 4/15/13: the Boston Marathon attack

Date1 = 9/11/13 (please notice the disastrous numeric significance!) : American political capitulation in connection to the chemical attack in Syria, followed by the terrorist attack in Nairobi, Kenya

Date2 = 10/7/14 (please notice the positive numeric significance!): North Korean political capitulation

 

These four political events have got quite small probability of happening on a specific day (their frequency can be estimated at about once in 5 up to 50 years). As they are independent of each other, their probabilities will have to be multiplied to account for their conjunction, which gives us astronomic odds of it happening by chance. 

 

Assuming this is correct, we end with the proposed dates for the end time events:

 

Close of Probation: 2/22/2017

Special Resurrection: 3/24/2017

Second Coming: 5/8/2017

 

As I mentioned, this is corroborated by the very meaningful parallel that can be made between the final crisis and WWII. The dates are also significant according to the Jewish calendar.

 

Am I making any mistake in here, or is there any problem with my reasoning? I would like to hear what you think about this!

 

Blessings,

Christian

[Ted Oplinger]

Chryss07,

 

 

 

iii) both Nazi Germany and the Revelation 13 Beast have a mortal wound but nevertheless seem invincible at the beginning of the conflict

 

This is not the first time I have encountered a thesis which desires to draw parallels between WWII and the Great Tribulation - these are interesting, but forgive me if I am the skeptic here. I have seen the same dating from the 1920's doing the same with WWI. But I digress...Point noted with respect to quote above:

 

The parallel between Nazi Germany and the Beast is incomplete. The spiritual aspect of the parallel - the Beast not only receives a mortal wound by the sword...it recovers, and the world is amazed at what it calls a wondrous miracle. By contrast, your proposed physical aspect of the parallel -  Nazi Germany - received its mortal wound...but never recovered as a power in its own right. The Beast has 7 heads (only one of which is wounded mortally); Nazi Germany had but one Head of State, mortally wounded only when he committed suicide in a bunker at the end of the war.

 

If one should expand away from simple nations, and consider on a global basis the sum of the dominant politico-economic systems in play during WWII and after, such a parallel might be more complete. But...that might necessitate moving this thread to the political forum... 

 

I will posit, though, there have been not just one, but several "dry runs" of various aspects of the Tribulation I have noted through the last several decades - I would guess it would be the enemy of our souls moving events and peoples around to see what really works effectively in the Last Days, versus that which works, but not quite so well. Each successive attempt gets the world closer to the real thing. Our Lord did say it would be birth pangs - plural - in the end.

 

Interesting read, though.

 

Blessings,

[JoeMo]

Chryss 07 says:

"Assuming this is correct, we end with the proposed dates for the end time events:

Close of Probation: 2/22/2017

Special Resurrection: 3/24/2017

Second Coming: 5/8/2017

Am I making any mistake in here, or is there any problem with my reasoning?"

 

IMO, Yes; you are making a mistake.  You are setting dates. Jesus Himself warned against doing that. The Millerites tried it 175 years ago; and it didn't work out well.  

 

Following your methodology, the 1260 days should have started about the time of US capitulation in connection to the chemical attack in Syria, followed by the terrorist attack in Nairobi, Kenya.  In my wildest dreams, I can't see any interpretation of prophecy that would even vaguely hint anything about US capitulation in Syria. There are many other events prophesied that precede the 3.5 (or 7) years of tribulation; and they ain't happening yet.

[chryss07]

 

 

The parallel between Nazi Germany and the Beast is incomplete. The spiritual aspect of the parallel - the Beast not only receives a mortal wound by the sword...it recovers, and the world is amazed at what it calls a wondrous miracle. By contrast, your proposed physical aspect of the parallel -  Nazi Germany - received its mortal wound...but never recovered as a power in its own right. The Beast has 7 heads (only one of which is wounded mortally); Nazi Germany had but one Head of State, mortally wounded only when he committed suicide in a bunker at the end of the war.

 

The Beast we are talking about is the Beast of German imperialism, defeated at the end of WWI, but recovered its power under the shape of Nazi Germany. After the initial military successes, the beast was looking invincible, and the world was amazed and looking after it, but people were forgetting that it already had a mortal wound (received during WWI). 

 

The parallel between Nazi Germany and the Revelation 13 Beast does not need to be perfect in all respects. Nazi Germany is just a type of the Beast and WWII is just a type of the final conflict, supposed to give us a certain idea as to how the real thing will look like. Namely, we are talking about a merciless totalitarian system relying on the resources of an advanced industrial nation, that will condemn to complete annihilation all its opponents. Of course, we do know more specifics about the identity of the industrial nation who will play a role during the final conflict: the second beast of Revelation 13 represents none other than the USA, and its rise to global domination is very unmistakable in the world we live in right now. We can also draw a very interesting parallel between Germany and the USA: despite the different geographical location, the two countries are pretty similar after all, from an ethnic (both are white dominated nations) and religious (both have meaningful Protestant traditions but with a strong Catholic influence) point of view. The drift towards fascism in the nowadays USA should again be pretty unmistakable for an unbiased observer, but this is maybe the subject of another discussion..  

[chryss07]

 

 

IMO, Yes; you are making a mistake.  You are setting dates. Jesus Himself warned against doing that. The Millerites tried it 175 years ago; and it didn't work out well.

 

Date setting should not automatically disqualify an interpretation.. Arguments based on Matthew 24:36 and other similar verses are not decisive, as the same reasoning was used back in 1840s against Miller's message which was actually authentic, coming directly from Jesus as we all now believe. On the other hand, even if the SOP contains many apparently very strong injunctions against time setting in general, Ellen White refers during her first vision to a moment when the people of God will come to know the day and the hour of the Second Coming:

 

Soon we heard the voice of God like many waters, which gave us the day and hour of Jesus' coming. The living saints, 144,000 in number, knew and understood the voice, while the wicked thought it was thunder and an earthquake. When God spoke the time, He poured upon us the Holy Ghost, and our faces began to light up and shine with the glory of God, as Moses' did when he came down from Mount Sinai. (EGW - "Early Writings").

 

 

 So I think the Adventist theology has got place for another time interpretation as the theological arguments against it are actually not that strong as people usually believe. And it makes pretty much sense when you think about it, as it seems the Adventist history makes a circle, ending the way it began. We find here the spiritual significance of the conflict with Islam we are witnessing nowadays.. back in 1840s Islam was an important part of Miller's message, through the agency of Josiah Litch's interpretation of the 5th and 6th trumpets (foretelling the precise date of the fall of the Ottoman empire) that played a key role in the Adventist movement. Similarly, nowadays Islam comes to prepare the way for the Loud Cry message, given by the 4th angel of Revelation 18 that repeats the words of the second angel of Revelation 14:

 

1. And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. (Revelation 18)

 

So the Adventist history is repeating itself and because it started with a time prophecy, there are very good reasons to believe it will also end with a time prophecy! (as incredible as this might sound to many people!..)

[chryss07]

 

 

Following your methodology, the 1260 days should have started about the time of US capitulation in connection to the chemical attack in Syria, followed by the terrorist attack in Nairobi, Kenya.  In my wildest dreams, I can't see any interpretation of prophecy that would even vaguely hint anything about US capitulation in Syria. There are many other events prophesied that precede the 3.5 (or 7) years of tribulation; and they ain't happening yet.

 

At this moment, I do agree the initial dates I proposed based on the analogy with WWII are faulty. In the meantime, I have discovered the Orion message where I think my interpretation fits very well. Using 168(=7*24) years / days periods as proposed by the Orion message we can very clearly understand the bigger time periods of the Christian era: 12 cycles of 168 years each, beginning in 5 BC at the birth of Christ and ending in autumn 2012 (27-Oct-2012). The last of these 168 years period is the Adventist history between 1844 and 2012. And counting between 27-Oct-2012 and 13-Apr-2013 there are exactly 168 days. Between 1844 and 2012 the Orion message is giving us the precise time moment of the repetition of the first four Revelation trumpets, but also the first four seals and churches. Starting with 15-Apr-2013, I think I have seen the repetition of the 5th trumpet, followed by the 6th trumpet from 9/11/13 until 10/7/14.

 

Using 168 days cycles, I revised my calculations for the key dates in the end-time chronology as follows:

 

10/22/2016: Close of Probation

 

10/29/2016: start of the 168 days plague cycle

 

4/15/2016: end of the plague cycle: the Second Coming of Jesus and the General Resurrection

 

Using the 168 days cycles it is possible to compute accurately the precise dates for the plagues that will fall after the Close of Probation until the Second Coming. But more importantly, we can compute dates for the trumpets that will sound before probation closes. Each 168 days cycle brings with it actually 6 trumpets, and when the 7th trumpet sounds, the cycle restarts, precisely according to the pattern shown in the fall of Jericho: the seventh trumpet contains a repetition of the 1-6 trumpets leading up to the Loud Cry:

 

15 And it came to pass on the seventh day that they rose early, about the dawning of the day, and compassed the city in the same manner seven times. Only on that day they compassed the city seven times. 16 And it came to pass at the seventh time, when the priests blew with the trumpets, Joshua said unto the people, “Shout! For the Lord hath given you the city. (Josiah 6)

 

Here are the past 168 days cycles with the relevant political events happening near the predicted time moments:

 

 i) the preparatory cycle before the actual Judgement begins. During this time we see the main political and ecclesiastical actors who will play a part during the final crisis occupying their positions:

  

  start: 10/27/2012, end: 04/13/2013

 

  throne lines (11/17/2012 - 11/18/2012): Barack Obama is re-elected as 44th US president

      11/6/2012: election day

      12/17/2012: electoral college formally elects Obama as president

 

  red star - Betelgeuse (1/5/2013):

1/6/2013: The President of the Senate formally announces the results after the Electoral Votes are counted before a joint session of Congress. 

 

  Bellatrix (1/27/2013):

1/28/2013: John Kerry is voted to succeed Hillary Rodham Clinton as the United States Secretary of State

 

  throne lines (2/9/2013 - 2/10/2013):

2/11/2013: pope Benedict resigns

 

  Rigel (3/18/2013):

3/13/2013: pope Francis is elected

3/17/2013: pope Francis delivers his first Angelus prayer and blessing

 

 

ii) this is the first cycle of the actual Judgement of the Living. The forces of darkness start the offensive and this brings about Islamic terror accompanied by political advances of the papacy:

 

  start: 04/13/2013, end: 9/28/2013

 

  white star Saiph (04/15/2013):  Boston Marathon terrorist attack marking the start of the 1260 days of the Judgement of the Living

 

         4/18/2013: terror attack in Waco, Texas as revenge for the 1993 massacre of Branch Davidians

 

  throne lines (5/4/2013 - 5/5/2013):

          5/5/2013 - 10 people are killed in a church attack in Njilan, Nigeria

          5/7/2013 - 55 people are killed by a Boko Haram attack in Nigeria

 

  red star Betelgeuse (6/22/2013):

          6/21/2013 - 15 people are killed and 20 are injured after a suicide bomber attacks a mosque in Peshawar, Pakistan

          6/23/2013 - 9 tourists and 1 tour guide are killed after gunmen storm a hotel near Nanga Parbat, Pakistan

         

  throne lines (7/27/2013 - 7/28/2013):

          [22-29 Jul 2013]: pope Francis visits Brazil - World Youth Day celebration on Copacabana beach

 

The third cycle brings about further political turmoil:

 

iii) start: 9/28/2013, end: 3/15/2014

    9/28/2013: 27 villagers are killed by Boko Haram in northeast Nigeria

    9/29/2013: 42 people are killed by Boko Harem in a college attack in Gujba, Nigeria

 

    white star - Saiph (10/1/2013):  US Government shutdown

 

    throne lines (10/19/2013 - 10/20/2013): 

                    10/26/2013: SDA Church celebrates "Creation Sabbath"

                    10/27/2013: Holy Mass for the Family Day, Vatican

 

    red star - Betelgeuse (12/7/2013):

                    - 72 years anniversary of the 1941 Pearl Harbor attack

                    8-10 Dec-2013: Ukrainian revolution: 1/2 million people rally in Kiev; statue of Lenin is toppled

 

    Bellatrix (12/29/2013):

                  12/29/2013: terrorist attack on train station in Volgograd, Russia, kills 14 people

 

During the fourth cycle, political trouble escalates in Ukraine. The Islamic State is proclaimed in the Middle East:

 

iv) start: 3/15/2014, end: 8/30/2014

 

    white star - Saiph (3/17/2014):

           16-Mar-2014: Crimea votes to secede from Ukraine

           17-Mar-2014: The Republic of Crimea is declared

           21-Mar-2014: Russia formally annexes Crimea amid international condemnation

 

   throne lines (4/5/2014 - 4/6/2014):

           7-April-2014: The protesters in Donetsk declared a "People's Republic of Donetsk" and unification with Russia.

8-April-2014: Separatists in Luhansk occupying the SBU building declared themselves the "Lugansk Parliamentary Republic"

 

   red star - Betelgeuse (5/24/2014):

           25-May-2014: Petro Poroshenko is elected President of the Ukraine

           (Poroshenko will soon adopt a tough stance against Russian separatists, leading to bloodshed and military confrontation)

 

   Bellatrix (6/15/2014):

           6/14/2014: 49 people are killed after an Ukrainian Ilyushin Il-76 airlifter is shot down

 

  throne lines (6/28/2014 - 6/29/2014):

            29-Jun-2014: ISIL announced the establishment of a new caliphate and changed its name to the "Islamic State"

            1-Jul-2014: Cease-fire ends and Ukrainian military renews attacks against pro-Russian separatists

 

   During the 5th cycle, the fighting in Ukraine scales down and an armistice is signed. However, we see renewed Islamic terror and the papacy expands its diplomatic offensive into the Muslim world:

 

v) start: 8/30/2014, end: 2/14/2015

   white star Saiph (9/1/2014)

                9/5/2014: Ukraine and pro-Russian rebels sign a truce in Minsk.

   throne lines (9/20/2014 - 9/21/2014):

                9/21/2014: ISIL Official spokesman Abu Mohammad al-Adnani released a speech encouraging Muslims around the world to kill non-Muslims.

 

    red star Betelgeuse (11/8/2014):

                 11/9/2014:  United States lead air strikes in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul against Islamic State (IS)

 

    Bellatrix (11/30/2014):

                 [28-30 Nov-2014]: pope Francis visit to Turkey

 

    throne lines (12/13/2014 - 12/14/2014):

                 [15-16 Dec-2014] the Sydney hostage crisis

 

    Rigel (1/19/2014):

                 1/22/2015: Saudi King Abdullah dies

                 1/22/2015: Yemen President Hadi resigns

 

    cycle end: 2/14/2014:

                  02/14/2015: terrorist attack in Copenhagen, Denmark against a free-speech seminar

                  02/15/2015: start of new truce between Ukrainian forces and pro-Russian rebels

 

 I think a 6th cycle has begun on 22-Nov-2014 (i.e. after 1/2 cycle = 84 days since the beginning of 5th cycle) that partially overlaps the 5th cycle. This overlap is needed in order to explain the 7.5 X 168 days = 1260 days period for the total Judgement duration. 

 

  vi) start: 11/22/2014, end: 5/9/2015

   white star Saiph (11/24/2014): 

              11/25/2014: pope Francis visits European Parliament

 

   throne lines (12/13/2014 - 12/14/2014):

              [12/17/2014]: pope Francis' birthday

              [12/17/2014]: US and Cuba announce plans to restore full diplomatic relations (deal mediated by Vatican)

 

   red star Betelgeuse (1/31/2014): 

              1/31/2014: peace talks between Ukrainian government and Russian separatists fail in Minsk; in East Ukraine, fighting intensifies

               2/3/2014: video emerges showing captive Jordanian pilot being burned to death by ISIL militants; Jordan vows revenge

               2/5/2014: dozens of Jordanian jets hit ISIL targets in response to pilot killing

 

 

And here are the important time moments in the future that will mark the progress of the Judgement of the Living until the Close of Probation:

 

2/22/2015: 6th cycle Bellatrix (persecution)

3/7/2015 - 3/8/2015: 6th cycle throne lines (spiritual developments)

4/13/2015: 6th cycle Rigel (ecumenism / religious compromise)

 

5/9/2015: end of the 6th and beginning of the 7th cycle

 

10/24/2015: end of the 7th and beginning of the 8th cycle

 

4/9/2016: end of the 8th and beginning of the 9th cycle

 

9/22/2016: end of the 1260 / 1290 days periods

 

9/24/2016: end of the 9th cycle

 

10/22/2016: Close of Probation

 

10/29/2016: start of the 168 days plague cycle

 

4/15/2016: end of the plague cycle: the Second Coming of Jesus and the General Resurrection

 

This is certainly a lot of material to be digested (I will recommend starting with the Orion Message and the other fundamental interpretations of the HSA movement). But even if maybe complex, I certainly believe the Lord will enlighten us in order to understand clearly the meaning of these interpretations, that I personally believe are supposed to play a key role during the Loud Cry message that will enlighten the entire world with its glory!

 

Blessings,

Christian

[Samie]

I am amazed at your tenacity, Christian.

 

But just by way of suggestion, have you ever considered our Master Teacher's statements in Matt 24:15-31? In those verses He plainly described the rapid succession of events culminating in His Second Coming.

[chryss07]

Here is the fulfillment of Cycle 6, 7 and 8 trumpets as I can see it at this moment:

Cycle 6:

    22 Feb 2015 (Bellatrix - persecution): Hundreds of Christians are being kidnapped by Islamic State in Syria

    7-8 Mar 2015 (throne lines - spiritual developments): Nigerian Boko Haram pledges allegiance to Islamic State

    13 Apr 2015 (Rigel - ecumenism): on April 12th, pope marks the 100th anniversary of Armenian genocide

 Cycle 7:

     9 May 2015: (cycle start, white star Saiph): 70 years anniversary since end of WWII; massive military parade in Moscow

     30-31 May 2015 (throne lines, spiritual developments): papal encyclical "Laudato Si" calls for environmental protection

     18 Jul 2015 (red star Betelgeuse - war): ISIS claims car bomb that killed more than 100 people in Iraq

     9 Aug 2015 (Bellatrix - persecution): ISIS abducts dozens of Christians in Syria

     28 Sept 2015 (Rigel - ecumenism): pope Francis visits Cuba and USA, speaks before UN

Cycle 8:

     24 Oct 2015 (cycle start, white star Saiph): false End of Probation prediction by the High Sabbath Adventists

     14-15 Nov 2015 (throne lines): ISIS terror attacks in Paris kill hundreds of people

      2 Jan 2016 (red star Betelgeuse): war

      24 Jan 2016 (Bellatrix): persecution

      6-7 Feb 2016 (throne lines): spiritual developments

      14 Mar 2016 (Bellatrix): ecumenism

I think we have here a pretty good match between the predicted dates and the actual political / spiritual developments. Overall, the proposed chronology accounts for practically all major events for the last two years: the March 2013 change in papacy, the terrorist attacks, the creation of the Islamic State, the crisis in Ukraine, the papal diplomatic offensive etc. and this can give us confidence the predicted future trumpets will also have a good fulfillment.

As you might know, the High Sabbath Adventists (John Scotram's group in Paraguay) have recently produced a false prediction by giving 24 Oct 2015 as the End of Probation. This is certainly a very serious mistake that is sufficient to disqualify their chronology. Personally, I see on the contrary the actual events lining up pretty well with the revised chronology this thread is trying to present. If anybody else is of the same opinion, I will invite you to join in a prayer & study group aiming to clarify the remaining theological problems and produce an accurate chronology for the final events, with the purpose of empowering the remnant church during the final period of persecution. Please take time to address this problem in a spirit of prayer!

Blessings,

Christian

 

P.S. Attached you can find the overall timeline as I can see it at this moment, from Day of Atonement 2012 to the Second Coming on 4/16/2017

[chryss07]

Here is an update on the fulfillment of Cycle 8 milestones:

     24 Oct 2015 (cycle start, white star Saiph): false close of probation prediction by High Sabbath Adventists (Cycle 8 Saiph)

      14-15 Nov 2015 (throne lines): ISIL terror attacks in Paris

      2 Jan 2016 (red star Betelgeuse): execution of Shia cleric leads to renewed tension between Saudi Arabia and Iran, already engaged in proxy wars in Syria and Yemen

      6-7 Feb 2016 (throne lines): Glow 1 Million evangelistic action occasioned by the San Francisco Super Bowl draws a strange parallelism to the ISIL terror attacks in Paris. Situated at diametrically opposite points on Cycle 8, both are religiously motivated actions that impacted the lives of many people: while hundreds of people were killed by the satanic Paris attacks, we can hope hundreds of people have been led towards salvation by the Christ inspired evangelistic action.

     20 Mar 2016 (Bellatrix): president Obama’s visit to Cuba is a very clear correspondent to pope Francis’ visit to both US and Cuba almost exactly 168 days before, on Cycle 7 Rigel. This historic reconciliation moment represents another diplomatic breakthrough for the papacy who mediated between the two nations.

 

  And here are the projected dates for the last seven trumpets (Cycle 9), that should bring about global calamities about the same level of intensity as ever reached in human history:

  9 Apr 2016 : (Cycle start — 1st Trumpet) The character of the event on this date should be very relevant as to the nature of the entire cycle.

  30 Apr 2016–1 May 2016 (throne lines — 2nd Trumpet) The lives of many people will be impacted and this will happen in consequence to a command originating from the very throne of God. This can be either a satanic action similar to the Paris terror attacks, or a Christ inspired action similar to the San Francisco Glow 1 Million evangelistic event.

  18 Jun 2016 (red star Betelgeuse — 3rd Trumpet) Moment of war. This could very well be the start of World War III.

  10 July 2016 (Bellatrix — 4th Trumpet) Persecution against the true followers of Christ and keepers of the Ten Commandments including the Seventh Day Sabbath.

  23-24 Jul 2016  (throne lines — 5th Trumpet): Another action reflecting a command originating from the very throne of God in response to the satanic New World Order being imposed upon the earth. Its content can be either satanic terrorism or evangelistic counter-attack.

  29-Aug-2016  (Rigel — 6th Trumpet): Moment of ecumenism: world religions unite around the papacy.

  24-Sept-2016 (Cycle end): The seventh trumpet begins to sound, marking the liberation of God’s people from their persecutors. After 30 days of grace, probation will close on 22-Oct-2016, the anniversary of October 22nd 1844 Cleansing of the Sanctuary and start of Investigative Judgement.

Please have a look at the blog containing the proposed chronology and let me know what you think!

Blessings, --Christian