SDARM and 144 000?

[Sojourner]

I came across this statement on the Doctrine section of the SDA Reform Movement site, I checked out the full version as linked and no further mention was made of the subject. Cleary from this however the SDARM believe that the Three Angels Message, plus that from a subsaquent Angel is meant only for 144 000 people to prepare them for the coming of Christ?

So how do they work that out? Seems a little unrealistic to me that the 3 Angels Message would be limited to 144 000 people or am I missing what they are saying?

Present Truth

The three angels' messages of Revelation 14:6-12, together with the message of the other angel of Revelation 18:1-4, are present truth. These messages are to prepare a special group of people, 144,000 in number, for the second coming of Christ.

Expanded edition

References: Ezekiel 9:1-7; Revelation 7:1-4; 14:1-12; 18:1-4.

http://www.sdarm.org/about-us/beliefs

[chryss07]

I think I have an explanation for the meaning of the group of 144,000 mentioned by Revelation 7 chapter. At first sight, it seems strange there are two groups of people in Revelation 7: the 144,000 and the great multitude dressed in white clothes, both groups being saved. This mystery can be understood in my opinion if we think about the different phases of the investigative judgement: first are being judged the professed Christians, and when judgement is done with this group, it begins with the non-religious, worldly people.

Now the different phases of the investigative judgement correspond to real tests of faith confronting people living on earth: judgement of the professed Christians corresponds to renewed persecution directed against the church and the professed followers of Christ, which will oblige every believer to take a stand, either on the side of the Lord or on the side of the persecuting apostate earthly religious authority. At a certain point, the judgment ends for the professed believers, and begins with the worldly people. I believe this is precisely the moment of the "Loud Cry" movement, represented by the mighty angel in Revelation 18 - the last Gospel call addressed to mankind, asking everybody to reject the Sign of the Beast and stand up for the Lord.

The point is the professed Christians are being judged prior to the Loud Cry message - those that side with the Lord will remain forever on His side (as for them judgement is closed when the Loud Cry begins) and will constitute that elite spiritual group who will spear head the spiritual resistance during the final battle. On the contrary, the professed Christians that are not on Lord's side when the Loud Cry begins will be forever lost. During the final battle we have therefore two groups of people making up the Remnant Church: those that have been in the church for years and rely on their many years of spiritual experience, and those that come from the world: their hearts are moved and they take a stand for the Lord by joining the remnant church but still they lack the spiritual experience of those from the first group. I think this is the best explanation for this apparently mysterious distinction made by Revelation 7 between the two groups of saved people.

Related to this question, here you can find a presentation providing a possible chronology for the end time events:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIkrZZupGw4

I know giving precise dates is controversial, but leaving aside the dates for the moment, I think the proposed scenario for the end time events is consistent and in harmony with the known principles of Bible interpretation and in particular clarifies the question of the meaning of the 144,000 group from Revelation 7.

Please have a look at the above presentation and let me know your thoughts!

Blessings,

Christian

[Gregory Matthews]

Seventh-day Adventist Reform Movement:

Just a comment for information, The background for these people dates back to about 1914, with more issues during the time of Hitler, or to put it another way, to WW I and WW II.

Over the years, those who constituted this group have split and exist now in several different organized groups each of which has some variation of the name at the top of this post.

[Samie]

Hi Cristian;

Quote:

Related to this question, here you can find a presentation providing a possible chronology for the end time events:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIkrZZupGw4

...

Please have a look at the above presentation and let me know your thoughts!

You discussed the 7 trumpets, the events under the 5th trumpet having occurred in the past. Can you please give more clarification on this:

Quote:

ESV Revelation 9:

5 They were allowed to torment them for five months, but not to kill them, and their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it stings someone.

6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.

Is there any historical evidence that there was a period in time when for 150 years nobody died?

[Stan]

There are several SDARM, not all came out of Germany. This is not a forum to promote any one of the dying groups.

[chryss07]

Hi Samie,

Was there ever a period when nobody died, except before Adam and Eve sinned? And will there ever be such a period, except after Jesus comes back to earth? This means in my opinion Revelation 9:6 has to be interpreted symbolically and not literally. And I think the traditional interpretation of it referring to the 150 years between 1299 - 1449 when the Byzantine empire continued to exist, despite the Turkish aggression and territorial expansion makes perfect sense. The 1449 symbolic act of political capitulation signaled the end of this period, and indeed only a few years afterwards, in 1453, Constantinople was finally conquered by the Turkish forces led by Mohammad II, effectively ending the history of the Eastern Roman Empire. This signaled the beginning of the 6th trumpet, that has different dynamics:

ESV Revelation 9:

15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour, the day, the month, and the year, were released to kill a third of mankind.

I hope this answers your question..

Blessings,

Christian

[Samie]

Hi Bro. Christian,

If symbolical, please explain the meaning of: Rev 9:6 And in those days people will seek death and will not find it. They will long to die, but death will flee from them.

Also consider, Rev 22:18,19 in your explanation. Thanks.

[chryss07]

It seems you suggest to interpret literally Revelation 9, that is literal locusts as battle horses, while the language of this chapter contains so many symbols that are made clear by referring to the rest of the Bible: the star, the sun, the air, the green grass, the trees etc.? I am not trying to add anything to the words of the Bible, just trying to understand them. I don't think there are many serious commentators who could suggest a literal interpretation for this chapter, but please explain your position!

 

Blessing,

Christian