Rev 11 - The Great City

[Aaron 1517]

The Great City

Revelation 17:4-6 (ESV)

The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.” And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I marveled greatly.

Revelation 17:18 (ESV)

And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 18:16 (ESV)

Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, adorned with gold, with jewels, and with pearls!

Revelation 11:7-8 (ESV)

And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

- In the Bible, God’s Church (His people, not a building) is represented by a Woman. See Rev 19:7-9, 2 Cor 11:2, Mt 9:14-15, Jer 3:14, Jer 6:2 with Is 51:16, Is 54:5-6, Is 62:5, Rev 14:4. Thus, a Harlot is a Corrupt Church (Hos 1:2, 3:1, 4:12, 9:1 & Jer 3:1-8, 3:20, 31:32, Ezek 23:1-49).

- The woman who is arrayed in purple and scarlet is called “Babylon the Great” (Rev 17:4-6). Nevertheless, “the great city” only spiritually refers to Babylon. The woman sits on seven hills (Rev 17:9) and the city of Rome is well known as the city on seven hills. The Roman Church has its seat in Rome and the Bishop of Rome is its leader. Vatican City is actually an independent city inside of Rome.

- The “woman” herself is called “the great city” (Rev 17:18). Therefore, this prophecy focuses on a church city. Even though Vatican City is much smaller than the city of Rome, her power is much greater.

- The great city is symbolically called Sodom. What was Sodom known for? (Genesis 19:1-11, Jude 1:7).

- The great city is symbolically called Egypt. What was Egypt known for? (Ezekiel 20:7-8, Isaiah 19:1).

- Ask yourself: Does homosexuality or idolatry have anything to do with a ‘church city’ in Rome?

- This prophecy says that “the great city” is where “their Lord was crucified.” The interpreters of the King James Bible used an error in one of their source texts to make their interpretation of this verse read “our Lord.” But, the other source texts clearly say “their Lord.” Jesus was not crucified in Rome Italy, but “their Lord” was. Every Pope is called “Lord Pope” and they claim that the first Pope was the Apostle Peter. Tradition holds that Peter was crucified at the site of the Clementine Chapel in what is now Vatican City.

[Gustave]

The Great City

Revelation 17:4-6 (ESV)

The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth's abominations.” And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I marveled greatly.

Revelation 17:18 (ESV)

And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 18:16 (ESV)

Alas, alas, for the great city that was clothed in fine linen, in purple and scarlet, adorned with gold, with jewels, and with pearls!

Revelation 11:7-8 (ESV)

And when they have finished their testimony, the beast that rises from the bottomless pit will make war on them and conquer them and kill them, and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified.

- In the Bible, God’s Church (His people, not a building) is represented by a Woman. See Rev 19:7-9, 2 Cor 11:2, Mt 9:14-15, Jer 3:14, Jer 6:2 with Is 51:16, Is 54:5-6, Is 62:5, Rev 14:4. Thus, a Harlot is a Corrupt Church (Hos 1:2, 3:1, 4:12, 9:1 & Jer 3:1-8, 3:20, 31:32, Ezek 23:1-49).

- The woman who is arrayed in purple and scarlet is called “Babylon the Great” (Rev 17:4-6). Nevertheless, “the great city” only spiritually refers to Babylon. The woman sits on seven hills (Rev 17:9) and the city of Rome is well known as the city on seven hills. The Roman Church has its seat in Rome and the Bishop of Rome is its leader. Vatican City is actually an independent city inside of Rome.

- The “woman” herself is called “the great city” (Rev 17:18). Therefore, this prophecy focuses on a church city. Even though Vatican City is much smaller than the city of Rome, her power is much greater.

- The great city is symbolically called Sodom. What was Sodom known for? (Genesis 19:1-11, Jude 1:7).

- The great city is symbolically called Egypt. What was Egypt known for? (Ezekiel 20:7-8, Isaiah 19:1).

- Ask yourself: Does homosexuality or idolatry have anything to do with a ‘church city’ in Rome?

- This prophecy says that “the great city” is where “their Lord was crucified.” The interpreters of the King James Bible used an error in one of their source texts to make their interpretation of this verse read “our Lord.” But, the other source texts clearly say “their Lord.” Jesus was not crucified in Rome Italy, but “their Lord” was. Every Pope is called “Lord Pope” and they claim that the first Pope was the Apostle Peter. Tradition holds that Peter was crucified at the site of the Clementine Chapel in what is now Vatican City.

Here,

Rev 11,8

And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, WHERE ALSO our Lord was crucified

.

Our Lord was crucified in Jerusalem...

...Which Scripture historically classified as a 'great whore'.

Isaiah 1,21

How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

Jer 2,20

For of old time I have broken thy yoke, and burst thy bands; and thou saidst, I will not transgress; when upon every high hill and under every green tree thou wanderest, playing the harlot.

Jer 2,30

In vain have I smitten your children; they received no correction: your own sword hath devoured your prophets, like a destroying lion. O generation, see ye the word of the Lord. Have I been a wilderness unto Israel? a land of darkness? wherefore say my people, We are lords; we will come no more unto thee? Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire? yet my people have forgotten me days without number. Why trimmest thou thy way to seek love? therefore hast thou also taught the wicked ones thy ways. Also in thy skirts is found the blood of the souls of the poor innocents: I have not found it by secret search, but upon all these.

Jer 3,1

They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the Lord.

Jer 3,6

The Lord said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.

Eze 16,14

And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God. But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them. My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, and oil, and honey, wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them for a sweet savour: and thus it was, saith the Lord God. Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,

That thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them? And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood. And it came to pass after all thy wickedness, (woe, woe unto thee! saith the Lord God;) That thou hast also built unto thee an eminent place, and hast made thee an high place in every street. Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms. Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger. Behold, therefore I have stretched out my hand over thee, and have diminished thine ordinary food, and delivered thee unto the will of them that hate thee, the daughters of the Philistines, which are ashamed of thy lewd way. Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied. Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied therewith. How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord God, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman; In that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire; But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom. And the contrary is in thee from other women in thy whoredoms, whereas none followeth thee to commit whoredoms: and in that thou givest a reward, and no reward is given unto thee, therefore thou art contrary. Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the Lord:

This next one you should pay attention to

Eze 16,55

When THY SISTERS, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate. For THY sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride, Before thy wickedness was discovered, as at the time of thy reproach of the daughters of Syria, and all that are round about her, the daughters of the Philistines, which despise thee round about. Thou hast borne thy lewdness and thine abominations, saith the Lord. For thus saith the Lord God; I will even deal with thee as thou hast done, which hast despised the oath in breaking the covenant.

Those are all references to Jerusalem prior to it being an apostate religion....

...Today they "deny the Father & the Son".

...Which according to Scripture is the doctrine of Antichrist.

If you need more I have more for you.

[Aaron 1517]

Hi Gustave,

Thank you for listing those scriptures. I believe that a bias which came from those scriptures is the very reason why an error was produced in that certain source text which was made to say "our Lord." Multiple source texts say "their lord" with only one saying "our lord."

If the angel was talking about Jesus he should not have said "their lord." Saying "their lord" means "not your lord" and "not my lord" but "their lord."

There are two cities in Revelation 11. There is the "holy city" in verse 2 and the "great city" in verse 8. Jerusalem was a great city, but if Jerusalem was being talked about in verse 8 then why not just say "the holy city" instead of saying "the great city" and then giving a bunch of clues? It would have been better just to say "their dead bodies will lie in the street of the holy city." We certainly wouldn't need any more clues after that.

I think that we both believe that the woman riding the scarlet beast in Revelation 17 is "the great city." And, that we both believe that a woman represents a church. The great city being the Vatican would point at the Roman Church and the great city being Jerusalem would point at the Jews.

The next topic that I am working on concerning Revelation 11 will be called "Killing the Witnesses." I have a full interpretation of this prophecy from Rev 10:8 through 11:13. Hopefully I will be able to successfully communicate my interpretation of this prophecy so that it can be easily understood, even though you may not believe it.

Your brother in Christ,

Aaron.

[Gustave]

Hi Gustave,

Thank you for listing those scriptures. I believe that a bias which came from those scriptures is the very reason why an error was produced in that certain source text which was made to say "our Lord." Multiple source texts say "their lord" with only one saying "our lord."

If the angel was talking about Jesus he should not have said "their lord." Saying "their lord" means "not your lord" and "not my lord" but "their lord."

There are two cities in Revelation 11. There is the "holy city" in verse 2 and the "great city" in verse 8. Jerusalem was a great city, but if Jerusalem was being talked about in verse 8 then why not just say "the holy city" instead of saying "the great city" and then giving a bunch of clues? It would have been better just to say "their dead bodies will lie in the street of the holy city." We certainly wouldn't need any more clues after that.

I think that we both believe that the woman riding the scarlet beast in Revelation 17 is "the great city." And, that we both believe that a woman represents a church. The great city being the Vatican would point at the Roman Church and the great city being Jerusalem would point at the Jews.

The next topic that I am working on concerning Revelation 11 will be called "Killing the Witnesses." I have a full interpretation of this prophecy from Rev 10:8 through 11:13. Hopefully I will be able to successfully communicate my interpretation of this prophecy so that it can be easily understood, even though you may not believe it.

Your brother in Christ,

Aaron

The 'holy City' is the New Jerusalem that comes down...

...The existing 'great city' is apostate Jerusalem.

...Which contains the blood of the prophets.

Matthew 23,34

Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Matthew 23,36

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Luke 13,32

And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected. Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

In other words the heathen don't kill prophets, Jerusalem and her religious officials do...

...This is what Christ is saying here.

...The woman represents a "religious system" who has a track record of being a whore.

It describes Jerusalem or better put Judaism - no other system could qualify to be a great whore....

...Scripture contains proof of that.

[8thdaypriest]

The eagle was called an "abomination" in Lev. 11:13.

The woman who gave birth to the "man child" was given "two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times and half a time".

The eagle was the ensign of the Roman armies.

In Jer 48:40, Babylon is portrayed as the eagle who would destroy Moab and Edom (Jer 49:22).

ASV Hosea 8:1 Set the trumpet to thy mouth. As an eagle he [babylon] cometh against the house of Jehovah, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law.

The tribal symbol of Judah was a LION.

If the LION is given "wings of an eagle" what does that mean?

Daniel sees a LION with two wings of an EAGLE.

So the WOMAN (Judah) is carried into the wilderness by two wings of an EAGLE.

Could this symbolize that Rome caused the diaspora?

When Daniel sees his "latter days" vision, the woman is now a LION with two wings of an eagle.

But the wings are torn off.

Then she has to adapt, and she allows herself to be taken under the protection of the Vatican. She compromises on her Covenant with the LORD - thus becoming a Harlot.

The Vatican has wanted the City of Jerusalem ever since the crusades. She wants to move the center of worship to the Temple Mount, thus giving her greater legitimacy.

Jerusalem is ALSO a City of 7 hills.

Daniel 11:45 "And he shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas, in the glorious holy mountain." KJV

We've been thinking that it's Jerusalem OR Vatican City.

What if they morph into ONE "great city" because Israel accepts Pope-ish rule in order to buy "peace"?

The Pope [he is anointed prince] then makes "a covenant with many for one week" but breaks the covenant after 3.5 years, then setting up the "abomination that makes desolate".

Just my thoughts,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Aliensanctuary]

Rev 21

Quote:

9 Then one of the seven angels who held the seven bowls containing the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come with me! I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

10 So he took me in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and he showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

Jer 6

Quote:

2 O Jerusalem, you are my beautiful and delicate daughter—but I will destroy you!

Isaiah 62

Quote:

1 Because I love Zion, I will not keep still. Because my heart yearns for Jerusalem, I cannot remain silent. I will not stop praying for her until her righteousness shines like the dawn, and her salvation blazes like a burning torch.

2 The nations will see your righteousness. World leaders will be blinded by your glory. And you will be given a new name by the Lord’s own mouth.

3 The Lord will hold you in his hand for all to see—a splendid crown in the hand of God.

4 Never again will you be called “The Forsaken City” or “The Desolate Land.” Your new name will be “The City of God’s Delight” and “The Bride of God,” for the Lord delights in you and will claim you as his bride.

In the above references, Jerusalem is indicated as either a "daughter", (as in "Daughter of Zion" elsewhere), the "Bride of God", or, the "Bride of the Lamb".

We could conclude that "woman" in prophecy refers to a city, either the Jerusalem built by men, or, its dazzling celestial counterpart, not built with human hands. "Church", or group of Christians, did not exist in the OT, and shouldn't be used as a replacement for "woman", or the City of Jerusalem.

[Aliensanctuary]

Isaiah 66

Quote:

7 “Before the birth pains even begin, Jerusalem gives birth to a son.

8 Who has ever seen anything as strange as this? Who ever heard of such a thing? Has a nation ever been born in a single day? Has a country ever come forth in a mere moment? But by the time Jerusalem’s birth pains begin, her children will be born.

9 Would I ever bring this nation to the point of birth and then not deliver it?” asks the Lord. “No! I would never keep this nation from being born,” says your God

I believe that this passage refers to the birth of the Restored Kingdom of Israel. The Woman in Labor of Rev 12 is the starship city of Jerusalem arriving from space that creates the nation of Israel under difficult circumstances, but in a very short time. Prior to that, Israel as a nation does not exist on Earth. The Restored Kingdom of Israel is not secular, but is justly governed by the Laws of YHVH, and will rule the world.

[Aliensanctuary]

Rev 21

9 Then one of the seven angels who held the seven bowls containing the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come with me! I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.”

10 So he took me in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and he showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

I get the impression that YHVH will be internally connected to the New Jerusalem, becoming its power and light source, bonded to the city like a devoted husband and wife are bonded to each other.

[8thdaypriest]

The next topic that I am working on concerning Revelation 11 will be called "Killing the Witnesses." I have a full interpretation of this prophecy from Rev 10:8 through 11:13. Hopefully I will be able to successfully communicate my interpretation of this prophecy so that it can be easily understood, even though you may not believe it.

There is a thread titled "Two Witnesses" which I started some time ago.  You could just add on to that one. 

I believe the TWO WITNESSES will be Smyrna and Philadelphia.  Those are the only two lamps left shining.  The others have been "removed" because they failed to repent.  The "two witnesses" have the Elijah message, and the Moses message. 

The voice of God will resurrect them and they will ascend to Heaven, three and a half days AFTER they are "killed".  This is the Second Coming. 

They could be "killed" by the passage of a death decree.  People worldwide celebrate, because they believe they are going to be rid of those who teach the Law of God, and faith in Jesus.