war Thoughts on war..... THOUGHTS?

[Stan]

-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.

 

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

 

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

 

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

[CoAspen]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion!

 

Sounds rather isolationist, maybe even not so caring of others needs.

[Sojourner]

If the question is asked as to what caused World War One to happen, I suspect that the case stated above definatley had something to do with it. the reasons for the conflict are sketchy at best as I read them in history.

 

Its a difficult subject, the General of the Salvation Army was asked on a radio station if he believed in the concept of a "Just War" and he said yes he did. I am not sure that same question could be answered as easilly by the President of the SDA as its deeply theological with very different views from different theologians.

 

If ISIS are murdering children do you simply ignore it, or do you do something about it, which sadly appears to be an armed conflict in this case?

[lazarus]

 

If ISIS are murdering children do you simply ignore it, or do you do something about it, which sadly appears to be an armed conflict in this case?

 

Yes ignore it, Children are murdered all over the world, why go to war over these particular kids?

[Igakusei]

Yes ignore it, Children are murdered all over the world, why go to war over these particular kids?

 

I don't know how many sermons I heard as a kid based on this story:

 

http://site.starfish-project.com/the-parable/

 

Seems like the same sort of logic applies to this. Also, Voltaire might argue that great power implies great responsibility.

 

That said, there are a lot of children being persecuted around the world, but we only ever seem to go to war for the ones where the United States stands to gain some economic or political benefit as well. It seems to me that the humanitarian angle we're discussing here is used primarily as propaganda, and not as a real motivation behind any military involvement.

[lazarus]

 

That said, there are a lot of children being persecuted around the world, but we only ever seem to go to war for the ones where the United States stands to gain some economic or political benefit as well. It seems to me that the humanitarian angle we're discussing here is used primarily as propaganda, and not as a real motivation behind any military involvement.

 

 

[Sojourner]

Yes ignore it, Children are murdered all over the world, why go to war over these particular kids?

 

How about if they were your own children in the Boston Marathon?

[Bravus]

http://www.monbiot.com/2014/09/30/bomb-everyone/

Read this carefully - he's being quite sarcastic. But the essay does a nice job of exploring the issues others have already raised in this thread.

What's that quote attributed to Einstein? "The definition of insanity is keeping on doing the same thing and hoping for a different result". If Gulf War I (1991-92) and Gulf War II (2003) didn't work, what makes us think more of the same in 2014 will? Maybe try something different?

[Bravus]

Sojourner... how, exactly, does bombing the middle east stop things like the bombing at the Boston Marathon?

It could be argued, indeed, that it *causes* them.

[lazarus]

How about if they were your own children in the Boston Marathon?

 

How about this?

 

A Columbia College student learned Wednesday that she lost her parents, two brothers and a 4-year-old nephew in an Israeli rocket attack in the Gaza Strip.

 

http://www.thestate.com/2014/07/24/3582510_columbia-college-student-loses.html?rh=1

 

We'll ignore this one because somehow the Gazan's bought it on themselves. Don't believe the hype. What is real reason why western nations have so quickly mobilized to bomb Syria and Iraq?  Do you honestly believe that these politicians and military leaders are responding because they care about children dying?

[fccool]

What's that quote attributed to Einstein? "The definition of insanity is keeping on doing the same thing and hoping for a different result". If Gulf War I (1991-92) and Gulf War II (2003) didn't work, what makes us think more of the same in 2014 will? Maybe try something different?

 

 

  There's a naive view that tends to peddle the idea of "stupid politicians" who don't know what they are doing and don't understand the implications.    Quite the opposite is generally true.  The people in charge are more informed about the consequences of either course, and they do understand the cost... and I highly doubt that (most of them) are doing it with eyes shut when it comes to potential casualties.

 

 Predictive modeling intelligence these days is able to play out scenarios on massive scales to calculate the odds and implications, so it's not merely about going in there for oil.   It's never really been so.  These days it's about maintaining economic balance.  

 

 The question really should be whether you are willing to face the consequences of making the morally right choices if it will cost you a great deal of discomfort, and with understanding that your current comfort is largely due to the artificial global economic imbalance created by US foreign policy since 1947 (since Bretton Woods, and subsequent formation of CIA as means of maintaining external economic hegemony of a fiat currency) .   Notice that State of Israel was formed the following year, and Iranian coup and meddling in Egypt shortly after. 

 

So, the irony is that... YES war is a racket... BUT ... it's a racket on your behalf  (if you live in developed world that is) .    Essentially this war is against the countries that are resisting integration into the global magical casino economy, in which speculation is manipulated and house always wins... and the immediate environment of the house gets the crumbs of the benefit.   

 

So, the question would be, if you were to make a moral choice at the expense of your own comfort security... what choice would you make?  

[Neil D]

What is it gonna cost you if you want to change the world.....?  Even those who want to kill you?

I am reminded of the Good Samaritan who took a Jewish victum under his care, bound up his wounds and put him in a hospital and paid for his hospital bill and promised to pay the balance if that wasn't enough....This samaritian listened to this jew and his arguments for the disgusting arguments that they were God's choisen people too...and probably came to blows over those arguements with other jews [not this one though] ...He probably added to the arguement of the high mindedness of the rabbis and Saddusees.....

So, what is it gonna cost YOU?

[Stan]

How about this?

 

A Columbia College student learned Wednesday that she lost her parents, two brothers and a 4-year-old nephew in an Israeli rocket attack in the Gaza Strip.

 

http://www.thestate.com/2014/07/24/3582510_columbia-college-student-loses.html?rh=1

 

We'll ignore this one because somehow the Gazan's bought it on themselves. Don't believe the hype. What is real reason why western nations have so quickly mobilized to bomb Syria and Iraq?  Do you honestly believe that these politicians and military leaders are responding because they care about children dying?

Sure they brought it upon themselves. It is one of those things that happens when people are put into a cage and have their freedom taken away.

[joeb]

Sure they brought it upon themselves. It is one of those things that happens when people are put into a cage and have their freedom taken away.

Oh, brother.  You might trying being at least halfway of objective.  

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Israel

 

Every country is accused of some kind of wrong doing, especially Israel with all the anti-semitism that exists in our world.   The Israelis have done a remarkable job of retaining human rights in a society that is surrounded by enemies pledged to not only the the state of Israel's destruction but the annihilation of the Jews as people.  To deny this is to show a complete disregard for the facts.  

 

The people responsible for war in Gaza are the terrorists.  Show me one instance where Israel has gone to war with it's neighbors without provocation.  I know you won't, because you can't.  I can, however, show you many wars they have had to fight because they have been attacked.   There would be no Israeli vs. anyone wars if they were not attacked first.  The Israelis would live in peace if they were allowed to.  

 

It seems you don't even take into account that all the verbal attacks/accusations against Israel are made by those who wish to destroy the Jews both as a state and as a people.  Remove the anti-semitism and 95% of the accusations against Israel will go away.  

 

I'm amazed at the amount of anti-semitism that exists within the SDA church.

[Gail]

There is a little icon at the bottom of each post called, "Mark Solved." I would love to be able to use that!

 

I wish I knew the answer to war. To me, it's like the mystery of sin...