please watch what you write..

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

especially about other people, including your family and friends...

 

Remember that unless you post in the Natter Matters forum, whatever you post here, including your "status updates," can be seen by the public.

 

I cringe sometimes when I see very personal information being written, albeit in a concerned way, about others...

[JoeMo]

Hi Pam,

What do you think of posting personal information about ourselves?  Being honest, I sometimes look back and cringe about some of the things I've shared about myself on this forum.

 

What do you think about people trading PM's about a 3rd party?  I think that's a matter of intent - gossip or genuine concern.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

posting about one's self is different, and totally up to the person...

 

of course, hindsight is better, and I suppose we all have written (or said) things we wish we hadn't.

 

 

re:  PM's about a 3rd party..  since that's in the realm of "private," it's not really what I was addressing in the OP.  But there's absolutely NO reason to spread gossip or rumors about *anyone* via PM's or blatant public postings.  Having been the object of both, from time to time, I can say it's hurtful, mean-spirited, and not in keeping with respectful behavior.

[aka]

This has always been a sliver of wood under my skin when gossip gets going. I hurt to recognize that the person being talked about is being put into a bad light. It may be all true what is being reported but gossip is when the bad is being reported and the person isn't around to defend their point of view on the event.

 

What gets really wicked is when the gossip turns malicious with intent to do harm of the person's reputation and influence. And a double wickedness is spreading statements that can't be proven and there is absolutely no evidence of the matter happening.

 

Ugly is sin in any guise. But are we helping others by informing them of the sin done by the perpertrator? What happened as evil between two persons should be fought out between them without hanging it on the tower bell and ringing it loudly. Jesus has called us to be His people of practicing atonement, forgiveness and burden carrying. Not to bash one another to spiritual death with spreading slander.

 

My weakness is that I like to be informed. I like to be alerted to where I could fall into the trap of a con-man. Personally I want to know who among us are the sexual offenders. I wish to be aware where the members are who have temptations to steal. With such knowledge I wish to protect my husband and myself from making deals with such ones who are drawn aside with such temptations. Having had dealings with a pathological liar causing me much grief, makes me wary now and I hope not to get involved in such a case again.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

while I agree that some things should be made public (such as the history and whereabouts of sexual predators), my OP had more to do with posting in a public venue, personal matters (such as medical or mental health issues, relationship issues, and the like) of other people.  Such issues are not necessarily on a continuum of good/evil (though I understand there are those who feel everything is either "good" or "evil'...)

 

It is just a matter of respecting someone's privacy and boundaries...

[aka]

Oh, yes.... now I see the scope of what your O.P. entails. 

And very good of you to bring the issue to the forefront. 

 

Spreading 'gossip' must not always have to do with the evil a person has done.

It has also to do with the private matters that Pam mentioned as "personal matters (such as medical or mental health issues, relationship issues, and the like) of other people." 

 

Yes, I certainly appreciate you mentioning those issues in this context. 

The question is: How did the one who is doing gossip get the information?

If it was told them in confidentiality then it's a big boo-boo done in giving this info to others without permission.

 

However, the nature of Forum structure is discussion, debate and analysing information.

It's public and all have public access to read and talk about what was publicly printed in Forum messages. 

So no one has a leg to stand on to get their nose out of bent when what they said about their mental-emotional condition or their physical chronic medical affictions got into a printed message they posted. 

Because anything one types here publicly is up for grabs.

Corrections made be made, advice may be given, disapproval may be expressed, anecdotes relating to the message shared and of course when it comes to medical info..... we all wonder if another suffers more than we do with our problem.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Again, my OP does not address personal issues made by someone about their *own* issues.... only those of others.

[JoeMo]

Jesus had some good advice on this.  To paraphrase, He said that if you're having issues with someone, the first person you should talk to is the person you're having issues with.  If that doesn't work, bring in a 3rd party (ideally a mutual and trusted friend and confidant). If that still doesn't resolve things, the last option is to bring it to the church (or the boss, or the family, etc.).  Sometimes the best option is to simply agree to disagree and move on.

 

I find this approach particularly useful at work.  If there's anything I hate, it's when people have an issue with me and go directly to my boss without coming to me first.  Then suddenly - BAM! - you're being chewed out about something that you frequently had no idea was a boo-boo.  My experience is that the boss' solution to a problem is frequently more onerous than one you and your antagonist could agree to without a boss as a mediator.

 

I have been a victim of maliciousness here; and I confess, I have probably been the originator of some of it too.  Thanks for bringing this issue forward, Pam.

[LifeHiscost]

 

 

What gets really wicked is when the gossip turns malicious with intent to do harm of the person's reputation and influence. And a double wickedness is spreading statements that can't be proven and there is absolutely no evidence of the matter happening.

Interesting to note that gossip falls in the same classification of wickedness as murder in the Creators eyes.

 

…28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,…Romans 1

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

[aka]

ahhh, now that's a point. Romans 1 as you posted did indeed classify gossip along with all the evil traits of the wicked ones who gave up on God and deny Him.

 

I believe it is malicious character hurting gossip mentioned in the list. You know, that type which is half true and half lie but told with the intent of putting the person down.

 

The persons referred to in Romans 1 are the real debased wicked even though a number of items mentions we ourselves are guilty of now and again. But thank God for the state of walking in the path of sanctification that those black stains get wash away through fellowship with our Lord.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

The point I'm *trying* to make is that it's not a good thing to publicly post comments regarding the problems or issues of anyone else, including family members, unless the person involved has given consent.

 

Not only are such statements a violation of privacy, but also a violation of boundaries.... and to publicly post such comments may get a person in a whole peck of trouble, relationally as well as legally. 

[aka]

Rudywoofs, I am convinced I know what you are talking about.

But maybe I am missing a part in my conviction that is causing you to be unsure in your assesment of how I am expressing myself and how the others are commenting. 

 

Perhaps you could give evidence or an example of wrong public posting that covers this misdemeanor?

[LynnDel]

Part of the problem is requests for prayer for another person when the person being prayed for may not have wanted the issues known. Better to ask first if the person wants to be put on an internet prayer list. I've learned not to request online prayer for myself unless in a vague sort of way, because for at least a year after you have people giving you advice on handling an issue that has long been in the past.

[JoeMo]

Y-girl,

Many of the more caustic posts that have appeared publicly disappeared when the new and improved CA website came on line.  It would be difficult to provide explicit examples   of what Rudy is talking about here without becoming part of the problem she is exposing; because it would require giving names.  I will volunteer that I have been called an infidel, a wolf in sheep's clothing; and even once had a person start a thread warning others not to read my posts because I am an agent of the evil one.

 

For what it's worth, I don't in general take too much offense at these barbs (with some exceptions).  God defines who I am; not other people - especially those who disagree with my inspired wisdom.

[joeb]

Jesus had some good advice on this.  To paraphrase, He said that if you're having issues with someone, the first person you should talk to is the person you're having issues with.  If that doesn't work, bring in a 3rd party (ideally a mutual and trusted friend and confidant). If that still doesn't resolve things, the last option is to bring it to the church (or the boss, or the family, etc.).  Sometimes the best option is to simply agree to disagree and move on.

 

I find this approach particularly useful at work.  If there's anything I hate, it's when people have an issue with me and go directly to my boss without coming to me first.  Then suddenly - BAM! - you're being chewed out about something that you frequently had no idea was a boo-boo.  My experience is that the boss' solution to a problem is frequently more onerous than one you and your antagonist could agree to without a boss as a mediator.

 

I have been a victim of maliciousness here; and I confess, I have probably been the originator of some of it too.  Thanks for bringing this issue forward, Pam.

JoeMo,

 

I also believe that Christ's advice on having issues with other people is right on the money.  

 

I have, however, run into a situation in which nothing seems to work.  I know someone who I have major problems with.  Her behavior towards other people, especially her own family, is really lousy.   It makes me really angry to see this person destroy her own children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren.     

 

Only one of her children can communicate on a personal level.  The rest are incapable of dealing with any personal issues at all.  They act as if the issues don't even exist, and if you bring up the subject they stop talking immediately.  She has taught her great grandchildren to be the same way as she helped raise them.   She has taught one of her great granddaughters to deceive more than once by going to her and telling her how to cover her tracks so she won't get caught disobeying her parents.  The other thing she does is play favorites to degree I've never seen before, and my parents played favorites constantly.  One of her kids is a drug addict/alcoholic who is on a path of self destruction and that kid(he's in his late 40's) can do no wrong as far as she is concerned.  Yet that guy constantly abuses her, manipulates her, etc... and if you bring the subject his addiction up she blows a gasket.  One of her grandson's is also an addict but he's really been cleaning his life up lately.  He's really trying to do what's right now, but she constantly puts him down, picks fights with him, and flat out insults him in any way she can.  The grandson is evil but the son is wonderful, or at least that is how she sees things.  

 

If you bring up anything with her she immediately denies doing what she did right in front of you.  The dishonesty is incredible, and what's worse is I think she actually believes her own lies.  So, trying to communicate with her is impossible, and if you brought anyone in the church into the situation she would just sit there and deny ever doing anything wrong.   Then she would take out all her anger on her daughter and it would completely destroy their relationship.

 

She has so browbeaten her children that her 62 year old son has literally given up his ability to think to her.  She tells him what do, how to do it, and when to do it, on basically everything in his life.  If he goes to visit his son (the addict grandson who she would not allow to live in the same household with his father) she gets really angry.  If he goes to the doctor without her she's mad for a week.  

 

As this woman is my mother-in-law I pretty much have swallow everything I have to say because she takes out her anger with me, and she hates men because she stayed in an abusive relationship for more than 50 years so she's always mad at me, on her daughter.  She tells my wife she is responsible for anything I do.  In other words, she thinks my wife is supposed to be able to control everything I think, do, and say.  However, at the same time she tells my wife that I tell her what to do, what think, and what to say, because she dares to ever disagree with her mother.....   Once she's mad she starts playing guilt trips, displaying passive aggressive behaviors, and stabbing whoever she's mad at in the back by lying about them to all her siblings, children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, and friends at church.   

 

This has to be the most bizarre situation I've ever seen.  I'd never have believed it if I hadn't been forced by financial circumstances to live in her household.  What's even more bizarre is that this woman thinks she is a wonderful Christian, and that anyone who disagrees with her is evil personified.   I don't think I've ever seen anyone who is less in touch with who they are than she is.  

 

That my wife is a kind, loving, committed Christian who is really Christlike is an absolute miracle as she's the only normal person in her entire family.   

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I hate to say this, but 

 

JoeMo,

 

I also believe that Christ's advice on having issues with other people is right on the money.  

 

I have, however, run into a situation in which nothing seems to work.  I know someone who I have major problems with.  Her behavior towards other people, especially her own family, is really lousy.   It makes me really angry to see this person destroy her own children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren.     

 

Only one of her children can communicate on a personal level.  The rest are incapable of dealing with any personal issues at all.  They act as if the issues don't even exist, and if you bring up the subject they stop talking immediately.  She has taught her great grandchildren to be the same way as she helped raise them.   She has taught one of her great granddaughters to deceive more than once by going to her and telling her how to cover her tracks so she won't get caught disobeying her parents.  The other thing she does is play favorites to degree I've never seen before, and my parents played favorites constantly.  One of her kids is a drug addict/alcoholic who is on a path of self destruction and that kid(he's in his late 40's) can do no wrong as far as she is concerned.  Yet that guy constantly abuses her, manipulates her, etc... and if you bring the subject his addiction up she blows a gasket.  One of her grandson's is also an addict but he's really been cleaning his life up lately.  He's really trying to do what's right now, but she constantly puts him down, picks fights with him, and flat out insults him in any way she can.  The grandson is evil but the son is wonderful, or at least that is how she sees things.  

 

If you bring up anything with her she immediately denies doing what she did right in front of you.  The dishonesty is incredible, and what's worse is I think she actually believes her own lies.  So, trying to communicate with her is impossible, and if you brought anyone in the church into the situation she would just sit there and deny ever doing anything wrong.   Then she would take out all her anger on her daughter and it would completely destroy their relationship.

 

She has so browbeaten her children that her 62 year old son has literally given up his ability to think to her.  She tells him what do, how to do it, and when to do it, on basically everything in his life.  If he goes to visit his son (the addict grandson who she would not allow to live in the same household with his father) she gets really angry.  If he goes to the doctor without her she's mad for a week.  

 

As this woman is my mother-in-law I pretty much have swallow everything I have to say because she takes out her anger with me, and she hates men because she stayed in an abusive relationship for more than 50 years so she's always mad at me, on her daughter.  She tells my wife she is responsible for anything I do.  In other words, she thinks my wife is supposed to be able to control everything I think, do, and say.  However, at the same time she tells my wife that I tell her what to do, what think, and what to say, because she dares to ever disagree with her mother.....   Once she's mad she starts playing guilt trips, displaying passive aggressive behaviors, and stabbing whoever she's mad at in the back by lying about them to all her siblings, children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, and friends at church.   

 

This has to be the most bizarre situation I've ever seen.  I'd never have believed it if I hadn't been forced by financial circumstances to live in her household.  What's even more bizarre is that this woman thinks she is a wonderful Christian, and that anyone who disagrees with her is evil personified.   I don't think I've ever seen anyone who is less in touch with who they are than she is.  

 

That my wife is a kind, loving, committed Christian who is really Christlike is an absolute miracle as she's the only normal person in her entire family.   

 

the above is a classic example of what my OP was trying to address..  No matter what one's personal opinion is of someone else, is it really necessary to write a public exposé on that person's character?  Really? 

[JoeMo]

Pam,

While I agree that joeb's message would have been more appropriately shared in a private email (or maybe not shared), I don't think this was done maliciously.  Joeb is a very transparent and open person; and shares of himself a lot on here.  That being said (and speaking for myself), his post is also a classic example of one way bad stuff gets started.  A person starts sharing about a personal experience or conundrum; and other people get dragged into it.  It snowballs from there.

 

I have made similar posting mistakes; where I start talking about a personal experience; and I unconsiously drag someone else into the picture; and it snowballs from there.  I mentioned earlier that I cringe about some of my posts.  Those are some of the posts and PM's I cringe about.

 

I hope this isn't another classic example; since I am talking about joeb.

[Gail]

At least Joeb is part of the discussion... I think he can defend himself.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Pam,

While I agree that joeb's message would have been more appropriately shared in a private email (or maybe not shared), I don't think this was done maliciously.  Joeb is a very transparent and open person; and shares of himself a lot on here.  That being said (and speaking for myself), his post is also a classic example of one way bad stuff gets started.  A person starts sharing about a personal experience or conundrum; and other people get dragged into it.  It snowballs from there.

 

I have made similar posting mistakes; where I start talking about a personal experience; and I unconsiously drag someone else into the picture; and it snowballs from there.  I mentioned earlier that I cringe about some of my posts.  Those are some of the posts and PM's I cringe about.

 

I hope this isn't another classic example; since I am talking about joeb.

 

I never said or inferred that joeb had any malicious intent - in fact, I addressed intent in my OP.  The issue has nothing to do with the "intent" of the one doing the writing about someone else.  It has to do with respecting the rights of someone who is not present to defend themselves in the face of detrimental accusations.

 

The problem can include veiled "concerned" prayers for someone who has an addiction or other private/confidential issue - and steam ahead with "sharing" on a forum or other public venue verbal or written statements concerning an individual who is unaware of the proceedings..  Why should "intent" and opinion trump "privacy" and respect for members of one's family?

 

 

.........

 

I give up...I was trying to make a helpful point...a reminder - that's all.  But apparently, since it's more fun and self-cathartic for some to write about others in public, it appears that my little mission is a failure.  

 

Oh well...

[Gail]

I think your point is valid. What can be gained by sharing dirt? At least clothing the information is anonyminity would protect the individual's privacy.

[joeb]

I use a nom de guerre on this site.   I've had extensive communications with JoeMo, and even then would not reveal my real name.  The reason I gave JoeMo, and have also stated here, is so that there will be no further alienation of my family members, and that includes my in-laws.  So, unless someone put forth a lot of effort, who has extensive computer skills, they would have a very difficult time figuring out who my mother-in-law is.  It would most likely take more than computer skills and time.  It would also require personal travel and/or require hiring a private investigator, unless they have those type of skills themselves.   

 

I just have a hard time seeing anyone wanting to put forth that type of effort.  It's possible, I suppose, but the odds are pretty low.  There's a reason I never give out publicly identifiable personal information here.  

[Ted]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Keep your mouth shut and keep your integrity.

So simple.