Members phkrause Posted October 9, 2014 Members Posted October 9, 2014 Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee threatened to leave the GOP and run for the White House in 2016 as an independent if Republicans "capitulate" and support same-sex marriage. Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com http://www.Newsmax.com/Newsfront/huckabee-gop-same-sex-marriage/2014/10/09/id/599697/#ixzz3FgET97QD Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted October 10, 2014 Moderators Posted October 10, 2014 Good for him. That will put him out of his misery. Quote Gregory
Members phkrause Posted October 10, 2014 Author Members Posted October 10, 2014 LOL Gregory, I used to like him, but politics has turned him into someone I don't recognize anymore. I fear the same for one of my favorite people, Dr Carson. Tom Wetmore 1 Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Aliensanctuary Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 Seems like the mainstream press spends a lot of time kissing the pro-Islamic backside of Mr. Obama, perhaps because their broadcasting companies are owned by the Saudis. I don't believe that Mr. Huckabee would ever do something like that, but rather, he seems to spend more time resisting political correctness and pointing out the lies and errors of arrogant politicians and public officials who embrace it. If there were an LGBT movement back in the days when Moses was leading Israel to the promised land, I suspect that few, if any of them, crossed over the River Jordan, along with rebels, murderers, adulterers, God-cursers, etc. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
Moderators lazarus Posted October 10, 2014 Moderators Posted October 10, 2014 Hopefully he will be part of new party that will split the republican party. The new party can have Palin as the leader. That would be exciting. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein
bonnie Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 LOL Gregory, I used to like him, but politics has turned him into someone I don't recognize anymore. I fear the same for one of my favorite people, Dr Carson. In what way has Dr Carson changed? Has he changed his views or is it that he is expressing those views Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 10, 2014 Administrators Posted October 10, 2014 I have known Ben for more than 20 years. Some things he is saying now are things I never heard him express before. If he held those views before recent experience he was keeping them rather secret. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
bonnie Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 I have known Ben for more than 20 years. Some things he is saying now are things I never heard him express before. If he held those views before recent experience he was keeping them rather secret. I would be more interested in hearing that he is doing a direct reversal of the views he holds without a good reason.Because not stated to you doesn't mean he has changed or you are right Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Aliensanctuary Posted October 11, 2014 Posted October 11, 2014 Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee threatened to leave the GOP and run for the White House in 2016 as an independent if Republicans "capitulate" and support same-sex marriage. More and more, candidates and people with Christian values will be portrayed as intolerant bigots or imbeciles. The end of that dark road, of course, is persecution and execution. An intolerant press will demonize conservative Christian candidates, and Christians, too, while they themselves wink at the nationwide cesspool created by the arrogant, anti-God liberals who would willingly engineer the loss of the basic freedoms of Americans. At some point in time, Christians will be jailed for their religion while criminals are free to practice their crimes. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
Moderators Bravus Posted October 14, 2014 Moderators Posted October 14, 2014 LOL - yes, it would be terrible if Christians were 'persecuted' for their persecution of others, and society became less tolerant of their intolerance... Quote Truth is important
Aliensanctuary Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 And now, the most horrible of tragedies, a most bigoted, heart-crushing act of persecution, that of a pastor declining to marry a gay couple because of his beliefs derived from the Bible. Even dead bodies weep at the stone-cold act of extreme intolerance of refusing to marry a homosexual couple with God's blessing. Christianity will be on the defensive against the godless who embrace the destruction of the 10c's and other guidelines handed down to us from our Creator, guidelines given to protect humans from each other. For those who have no Creator, Satan ultimately becomes their god by default. Contrary to popular belief, Christians are not doing the persecuting, but rather, they are being persecuted in several areas of the world. Not to mention them being raped, enslaved, driven from their homes, and beheaded, all victims of Satanic religion. Let's see some examples of Christians doing the persecuting, today. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
Moderators Bravus Posted October 15, 2014 Moderators Posted October 15, 2014 Try being gay in a small town in middle America. Quote Truth is important
Moderators Bravus Posted October 15, 2014 Moderators Posted October 15, 2014 And trying to take your date to the prom. Quote Truth is important
bonnie Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 And trying to take your date to the prom. For someone that has as his signature.."Truth is important" would you be kind enough to explain something to me? By your previous two posts it seems that you have concluded that any harassment of gays is done by "christians" Many that define themselves as "christians" in their daily life have a view of God that says they know He is out there somewhere. If He doesn't bother them to much they won't bother Him,unless of course in times of need. Hardly the recipe for christian behavior.Yet you routinely blame wrong acts on the fact they are christian. Tell me how you know. But by some strange reasoning if a Muslm blows himself and of dozen of others to pieces ,remember that is only committed by a very few. Islam is a peaceful religion that is perverted by a few radicals and it is wrong to blame the followers of Islam in general. If a loon with a gun goes nuts and wipes out innocent people,it becomes the fault of gun owners in general. If you believe the gay lifestyle to be wrong,you are homophobic.If you dare say so you are judgmental. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 I would never vote for Huckabee for other reasons but the fact that he takes a stand for what he believes to be wrong in this case is not one of them. I have more respect for him concerning this than many SDA's that are afraid to say "This is something I cannot support" We have many here that do that. I don't believe we should be protesting this in the streets but I have a problem with those that give it their personal and verbal support as only fair and right,right up to gays wanting to be married in a church ceremony .Then the judgments begin.It is not admitted to be judgmental but that is exactly what it is. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 15, 2014 Administrators Posted October 15, 2014 For someone that has as his signature.."Truth is important" would you be kind enough to explain something to me? By your previous two posts it seems that you have concluded that any harassment of gays is done by "christians" Many that define themselves as "christians" in their daily life have a view of God that says they know He is out there somewhere. If He doesn't bother them to much they won't bother Him,unless of course in times of need. Hardly the recipe for christian behavior.Yet you routinely blame wrong acts on the fact they are christian. Tell me how you know. But by some strange reasoning if a Muslm blows himself and of dozen of others to pieces ,remember that is only committed by a very few. Islam is a peaceful religion that is perverted by a few radicals and it is wrong to blame the followers of Islam in general. If a loon with a gun goes nuts and wipes out innocent people,it becomes the fault of gun owners in general. If you believe the gay lifestyle to be wrong,you are homophobic.If you dare say so you are judgmental. Seems to be another fine example of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted October 15, 2014 Moderators Posted October 15, 2014 Bonnie: Married in a church ceremony? Are you telling us that some here would want clergy forced to perform wedding ceremonies? I do not think that any here would want to do that. If that is not what you meant, I do not understand you. Quote Gregory
bonnie Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Bonnie: Married in a church ceremony? Are you telling us that some here would want clergy forced to perform wedding ceremonies? I do not think that any here would want to do that. If that is not what you meant, I do not understand you. This is what I said......those that give it their personal and verbal support as only fair and right,right up to gays wanting to be married in a church ceremony . But do I think some will or have come to the conclusion that is only right and fair. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Seems to be another fine example of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman Thanks Tom for your answer,however that isn't what I asked.Your opinion of myself or others of Scottish descent is immaterial. But it does make me curious what your reaction would be to statements as "Seems to be another fine example of the Muslim/African American/gay /woman fallacy to questions asked.. How does Bravus know that if a gay couple were wanting to be homecoming king and king or whatever that any "persecution would come from "christians" or only christians. Same for attending the prom as a gay couple? Is it being christian that would be the cause of such persecution? If so then it follows that being a follower of Islam causes the atrocities of some Islam. Are wrongs that are committed by gays committed because being gay causes it? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted October 15, 2014 Administrators Posted October 15, 2014 Once again, missing the whole point.... Did you even read what I linked? Nothing really to do with being Scottish Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)
bonnie Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Once again, missing the whole point.... Did you even read what I linked? Nothing really to do with being Scottish Actually I did read it .The question was for Bravus amd you are still side stepping. If a gay couple wished to be homecoming kings or queens and were persecuted how would Bravus know the act was committed by "christians"? Does being christian cause you to be guilty of acts like this? If that is so then it wouldn't be out of line to assume that the Islam religion is the cause of the atrocities committed by those cutting the heads off of their hostages in the name of Allah. Not just a few radicals. Are gays that commit crimes doing so because being gay causes it like "christianity" causes persecution of gays? Is it a few gays that are criminally minded or should the whole community be blamed as Bravus and others blame "christians" Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Once again, missing the whole point.... Did you even read what I linked? Nothing really to do with being Scottish This is not the first time reading this. I find it interesting that you claim it doesn't have anything to do with being Scottish. If this were changed just a bit to reflect African -Americans,Gays,Muslims most of you would be quick to point out how wrong that attitude was. Whether the tale is true or not is beside the point. The use of the term was advanced by British philosopher Antony Flew: Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Brighton [(England)] Sex Maniac Strikes Again". Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Scotsman would do such a thing". The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again; and, this time, finds an article about an Aberdeen [(Scotland)] man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, "No true Scotsman would do such a thing".[6][7] Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators Bravus Posted October 15, 2014 Moderators Posted October 15, 2014 Right. So the point, simply stated, is that the claim "Any Christian who ever does anything wrong is not a true Christian" is flawed, because it means that by definition no Christian can ever do anything wrong. That makes it impossible to make any sort of balanced judgement about, for example, whether the net effect of Christianity in the world is positive or negative. If every time a Christian does something good that reflects on all Christians, but every time a Christian does something evil it reflects only on the individual... well, it's a form of stereotyping that doesn't lead to truth. To be consistent, it would need to be applied in exactly the same way to every group. What tends to happen is that we apply the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy to the 'in group' of which we are a member, and its inverse to 'out groups' we dislike. Deciding that any time a Muslim does something bad it reflects on all Muslims but any time a Muslim does something good it reflects only on the individual, for example. So, whether or not the gay couple deep in the Bible Belt are being persecuted by Christians *because the Christians are Christians*, or just because the Christians are ignorant, bigoted human beings... they are still being persecuted by Christians. And, if asked, the Christians will say that they are persecuting (though they won't use that word) for religious reasons, and quote Bible texts. My point is just one about consistency. Same rules for everyone. If we're all individuals and our religious labels are irrelevant to our actions, then no more demonising Muslims. It's that one particular man or group. And so on. Tom Wetmore 1 Quote Truth is important
bonnie Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 You once again are taking a lot of liberties with what was said. Christians ,unlike some that post here are not perfect. There are many that define themselves as christian and it is in name only. There are those that are christian that at times behave in a unchristian manner.Something I am sure that a few here have never done. It isn't a question of christians never doing anything wrong.It is your automatic assumption in the questions you posed it would be persecution by christians. You are doing the stereotyping with statements that I never made. This has never been said on this forum as far as I know except by those that are continually demonizing christians. If every time a Christian does something good that reflects on all Christians, but every time a Christian does something evil it reflects only on the individual... well, it's a form of stereotyping that doesn't lead to truth I may have missed it but don't recall anyone saying all Muslims are bad. Some probably would,should that reflect on all christians? Some Muslims are vicious killers,willing to kill many innocent,they do so in the name of Allah,should all Muslims be guilty.You don't do that,you only do that with one group. "Those other Christians" I have not seen demonizing of Muslims,I have of Christians by those real christians on this forum. I personally am not well acquainted with any Muslim. The interaction with those that live in our small town has been brief but very pleasant I would not hesitate to have them as my next door neighbor. We do have groups of Muslims here in Mn that I would not want to live near. Having to deal with them in a couple of shops I frequent is enough. Two women I knew quit their jobs in retail simply because of the continual abuse by Somali Muslims. Does that mean to you I am demonizing Muslims? Do they behave in this manner because of the Muslim religion? Or are they Muslims behaving in an abusive manner? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
joeb Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Seems to be another fine example of the "No True Scotsman" fallacy... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman So, in your mind anyone who claims to be a Christian is a Christian? Really? There is no such thing as Christians in name only? All I have to do is say there is a God and I'm a Christian? Really? I can completely misrepresent God and I'm still a Christian? Really? I don't know where I got the idea but I heard that a Christian is a disciple of Christ. I heard that Jesus laid down some pretty tough restrictions on his followers. I heard that he said if you don't love Him more than even your closest family you're not worthy of Him. From where do you get your definition of who is a Christian? Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
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