Abomination of Desolation = USA

[Samie]

13 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:

15 hours ago, Samie said:

Then the great tribulation or time of trouble is already triggered? 

I think that it is triggered and that we are already into the 1290 days. I'm afraid that the 2 Thessalonian 2 rebellion has already occurred, the AoD has been recently set up and Paul's man of sin has taken his seat.

. . .

I think that "for then there will be great tribulation" that Jesus was talking about in the Olivet is going to begin during the last one third of the 1260 day span which is 420 days in duration.

I suggest you take time again to review Matt 24:15-31.  As I understand it, the setting up of the AoD triggers the occurrence of the great tribulation or time of trouble.

[JoeMo]

The Bible is a "Jewish-centric" book.  Almost every event and prophecy in the Bible takes place in the Middle East.  There was no "United States" 2,000 years ago.  NO one even knew about the U.S.  What makes some of you think that Daniel and Revelation has anything to do with the U.S.?  Look at the verses in John's epistles that describe the antichrist:

"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." (1John 2:18)  The spirit of the antichrist/beast existed in John's time 1400 years before America was discovered.

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also." (1 John 2:22-23)  America does not deny the Father-Son relationship, nor the dual/triple personhood of God.  That is the realm of Satanists and Muslims - neither of which have ever "ruled" the U.S.

BTW, neither does the Catholic Church deny it - they uphold it.

" Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." (1 John 4:2-3)  America has never disavowed that Jesus IS the Christ and that He died for our sins.  Again, this is the realm of Satanists and Muslims.  Sure, Hindus, Buddhists, and most pagans may doubt the deity of Christ; or that He actually died on the cross; but only radical Muslims vow to kill all those who do put their faith in Christ.

Only radical Islam and its holy books - the Quran and hadiths - openly predict and threaten the death of all infidels - explicitly Jews and Christians.  Their "Madhi" and "Prophet Jesus fulfill the scriptural roles of antichrist and false prophet, respectively.  There is no biblical proof (only private interpretations) that the U.S is a major player in the end times.  Nor is there any mention of a Sunday Law.  the verses about changing times and laws more readily refers to converting the world to Sharia Law, including the Friday Sabbath observed by Islam.  Those waiting for the pope or for Obama to put a national or international Sunday Law into effect will be waiting a long time - perhaps too long.

 

" For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist". (2John 7)  In Christianity, Jesus is the "God made man".  In Islam Jesus is the "man made God". Allah is One and does not need a Son the carry out His desires.  To Muslims, claiming Jesus is God (or part of a "Trinity") is blasphemy worthy of death.  Does the U.S. or RCC have any doctrines like that? No.

[Samie]

Muslims believe in God.  The Quran call Him Allah.  Hebrew Scriptures call Him hw"hoy .  But the AntiChrist will have no regard for God (Dan 11:36-37; 2 Thess 2:1-4). I don't think any true Muslim can be the AntiChrist the Bible speaks about.  Although I don't discount the possibility that the AntiChrist could come from a Muslim country.

[JoeMo]

There are "allahs" ("gods")  And these is "Allah" (the god of Islam) and there is GOD (the God of Christians and Jews).  The god of Islam is a pretender and a deceiver otherwise known as satan.

[8thdaypriest]

The only "holy PLACE" is the area of the Temple and court, on the Mount in Jerusalem. 

Daniel 11:31 "And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place THERE the abomination of desolation." (NKJ)

Matthew 24:15 "Therefore when you see the`abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place " (whoever reads, let him understand),

The AOD is something or someone, that can been SEEN.

The AOD is set up in the Temple area on the Mount.  The only thing NOT authorized by God, currently standing on that PLACE - is the Dome of the Rock - a Muslim shrine. 

I personally believe "the image of the Beast" will be "set up" in a rebuilt TEMPLE, on the Mount.

It has nothing to do with the USA.

 

 

[JoeMo]

While Christianity is growing very slowly, (even shrinking in many areas of the world),  Islam is growing by leaps and bounds all over the world - admittedly and primarily by birth rate.  Joel Richardson estimates that there are over 60,000 conversions from Christianity to Islam every year in America alone; and about 60 to 100 Million annual converts/births into Islam planet-wide.  At this rate, Islam will take over Christianity as the largest religion in the world within 25 - 30 years.  How will we Christians feel when we are the persecuted religious minority?  The AoD will NOT be America; it will be in Jerusalem.

I could very well be mistaken on this scenario; but one thing I'm sure of - no matter what the scenario for the AoD, I want to be ready for Jesus to come.

[CoAspen]

Not so sure what part of JR's writings are accurate or personal interpretation of scriptures. I find his support from the Bible for a return to Jewish Monarchy on the new earth a bit lacking to say the least. 

Missed on the gospel?

I realize the above url is off topic but wonder if some persons are following his biblical interpretations of the Biblical texts.

The best number I could find is 20k per year based on research by someone in GB, not the tripled number quoted above. Maybe Pam can run town the number further to see if this accounts for the the converts to Christianity from Islam. It is difficult to track converts to Christianity because of persecution with in the Muslim community. So to become afraid that  another religious group will be bigger than Christianity seems rather, how shall I say it, paranoid. Don't we trust in God. Christianity was a minority at one time and yet it flourished to become what it is today. I think the bigger concern is that Christianity is not portraying Christ in the manner that makes it more desirable.

Okay, back to topic. This reply is not a direct reply to JoeMo but a comment on the subject of Islam.

[LifeHiscost]

5 hours ago, JoeMo said:

How will we Christians feel when we are the persecuted religious minority? 

 

       "As of 2010, Christianity was by far the world's largest religion, with an estimated 2.2 billion adherents, nearly a third (31 percent) of all 6.9 billion people on Earth," the Pew report says. "Islam was second, with 1.6 billion adherents, or 23 percent of the global population."Apr 2, 2015

World's Muslim Population Will Surpass Christians This Century, Pew ...

www.npr.org/...way/.../muslim-population-will-surpass-christians-this-century-pew-says

Are you of the opinion that will happen before Jesus comes.

…13But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come......Matthew 24

   The days in which we live are solemn and important. The Spirit of God is gradually but surely being withdrawn from the earth. Plagues and judgments are already falling upon the despisers of the grace of God. The calamities by land and sea, the unsettled state of society, the alarms of war, are portentous. They forecast approaching

events of the greatest magnitude. The agencies of evil are combining their forces, and consolidating. They are strengthening for the last great crisis. Great changes are soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones.—Testimonies for the Church 9:11. {  

God is Love!~Jesus saves!    

[JoeMo]

9 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

Are you of the opinion that will happen before Jesus comes.

Not only am I of the opinion that this will happen before Jesus comes, I am of the opinion that this is the reason Jesus comes - to save those whose names are written in the book of life from being exterminated by jihadist Islamists and others of satan's ilk.

[8thdaypriest]

13 hours ago, CoAspen said:

Not so sure what part of JR's writings are accurate or personal interpretation of scriptures. I find his support from the Bible for a return to Jewish Monarchy on the new earth a bit lacking to say the least. 

Missed on the gospel?

I realize the above url is off topic but wonder if some persons are following his biblical interpretations of the Biblical texts.

The best number I could find is 20k per year based on research by someone in GB, not the tripled number quoted above. Maybe Pam can run town the number further to see if this accounts for the the converts to Christianity from Islam. It is difficult to track converts to Christianity because of persecution with in the Muslim community. So to become afraid that  another religious group will be bigger than Christianity seems rather, how shall I say it, paranoid. Don't we trust in God. Christianity was a minority at one time and yet it flourished to become what it is today. I think the bigger concern is that Christianity is not portraying Christ in the manner that makes it more desirable.

Okay, back to topic. This reply is not a direct reply to JoeMo but a comment on the subject of Islam.

CoAspen,  I have read three of Joel Richardson's books.  I feel that he makes it ABOUT RACE, rather than ABOUT FAITH.  In his scenario, those of Hebrew descent will rule the nations under Christ their Jewish King.  All the Jews of the world will suddenly come to believe in Yeshua, when He rescues them from the Antichrist (Islam).  I recently edited my study "Who are Israel?" on my website.  I mention Richardson specifically in that study.  Here's the link:  http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book Chapters/18b-Israel-Part II - Who are Israel.pdf

I feel that teachers like Richardson are setting Christians up to be deceived by Satan, who will appear gloriously in a rebuilt Temple on the Mount, claiming to BE Christ come. 

[8thdaypriest]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Not only am I of the opinion that this will happen before Jesus comes, I am of the opinion that this is the reason Jesus comes - to save those whose names are written in the book of life from being exterminated by jihadist Islamists and others of satan's ilk.

IF Christ had zero loyalists left on earth, then Satan would try to claim this dominion for himself.  (It's what he  is trying to do.)  But I AM of the opinion that every witness for God's truth, will either be dead or imprisoned.  When the LAST WITNESS can no longer testify - THAT's when it's over.  No others can be won to Christ during this age. 

When Satan (or a man he channels) stands in the Temple, claiming to BE Christ,  when he claims to have changed God's Law - THAT's when it's over.  Remember Belshazzar's Feast.  When the King used the holy vessels from the Temple to serve wine to his drunken guests, to make the point that Israel's God was impotent. THAT is when the king stepped over the line.  He was weighed in the balances of Heaven.  And when Satan uses the WHOLE Temple of Yahweh, to claim that he now rules the world, THAT is when he also will step over the line.  He also will be weighed in Heaven's balances.  The dominion will be taken from him, and given to Jesus (Daniel 7).

The Abomination causing desolation, will be the worship of Satan - as Christ and Savior.

[JoeMo]

39 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I feel that he makes it ABOUT RACE, rather than ABOUT FAITH. 

As you and I have discussed previously, the "Jews" who will rule the earth include those "wild branches" (Gentiles) who have been grafted in the "natural" olive tree through faith (Romans 11).  It IS about their faith, and the remnant of ethnic Jews (not all ethnic Jews) that turn to Christ.  If we Gentiles who believe are grafted in and included in the "seed of Abraham", doesn't that make us spiritual Jews - guided by faith and not race?

[JoeMo]

According to Pew Research, Islam will be the world's major religion by as soon as 2070, given current growth rates.

http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/12/25/460797744/a-religious-forecast-for-2050-atheism-is-down-islam-is-rising

http://www.theblaze.com/contributions/what-will-happen-when-islam-becomes-the-majority-religion/

[JoeMo]

14 hours ago, CoAspen said:

The best number I could find is 20k per year based on research by someone in GB, not the tripled number quoted above

According to an Ibn Warraq article written in 2015, a survey of  the  number of annual converts to Islam in the U.S. ranges from 20,000 to about 135,000 per year after 9/11/2001.  The number is difficult to estimate because of the number of Muslim immigrants (documented and undocumented, the high birth rate in Muslim families, and the fact that the Quran approves of (even encourages) lying about one's faith for self protection.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/Ibn_Warraq/Population_and_the_True_Number_of_Converts_to_Islam/

These numbers do not include the number of Muslims that convert to Christianity or the number of American Muslims that simply leave the faith.

[8thdaypriest]

22 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

As you and I have discussed previously, the "Jews" who will rule the earth include those "wild branches" (Gentiles) who have been grafted in the "natural" olive tree through faith (Romans 11).  It IS about their faith, and the remnant of ethnic Jews (not all ethnic Jews) that turn to Christ.  If we Gentiles who believe are grafted in and included in the "seed of Abraham", doesn't that make us spiritual Jews - guided by faith and not race?

It makes us spiritual ISRAELITES - not spiritual Jews.  To say we are spiritual Jews, would mean there is only one tribe.  There are 12 gates into the city, each with the name of a different tribe of Israel.  Notably, there are also 12 foundations with the names of the 12 disciples.  A foundation is what you build on.  And their message - the Gospel of Christ - is the FOUNDATION of that Holy City. 

[JoeMo]

Just now, 8thdaypriest said:

It makes us spiritual ISRAELITES - not spiritual Jews

I agree wholeheartedly.  Thanks for the clarification, my sister!

[8thdaypriest]

I can't go back to previous pages of this thread.  Or any thread.  What's wrong with my browser?

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I can't go back to previous pages of this thread.  Or any thread.  What's wrong with my browser?

I have the same problem. Whether going forward a page or backwards a page, if a blank page comes up, just hit the "back" button in the upper LH corner of the screen and the page you want till come up.  That works in IE.  I haven't been here on any other browser lately.

[Samie]

On 20/12/2016 at 4:07 AM, Samie said:

Muslims believe in God.  The Quran call Him Allah.  Hebrew Scriptures call Him hw"hoy .  But the AntiChrist will have no regard for God (Dan 11:36-37; 2 Thess 2:1-4). I don't think any true Muslim can be the AntiChrist the Bible speaks about.  Although I don't discount the possibility that the AntiChrist could come from a Muslim country.

 

On 20/12/2016 at 4:39 AM, JoeMo said:

There are "allahs" ("gods")  And these is "Allah" (the god of Islam) and there is GOD (the God of Christians and Jews).  The god of Islam is a pretender and a deceiver otherwise known as satan.

 

Christians (including SDA's) of Indonesia and Malaysia also call the God of Christians and Jews "Allah".

[JoeMo]

20 hours ago, Samie said:

 

 

Christians (including SDA's) of Indonesia and Malaysia also call the God of Christians and Jews "Allah".

They are welcome to do so.  I will NEVER call the allah of Islam  - a god of vengeance, destruction, and condemnation - God.  A lesser evil god, maybe; who will be destroyed in the lake of fire, but never Yahweh, the God of eternal life, love and grace