Sojourner Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Believing the right doctrine will no more save you than doing good works will save you. Charles Spurgeon. Agree or Disagree? Quote
JoeMo Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Agree. The only thing that saves us is the blood and grace of Jesus Christ. But I guess that's proclaiming right doctrine, huh? Hmmm... Quote
Johann Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 This is a dangerous question. If doctrines do not matter, why keep the Sabbath? Naomi, Sojourner and rudywoofs (Pam) 3 Quote
8thdaypriest Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 We CANNOT keep the Law, without the Spirit of Christ within. And I personally do not believe that we can keep it perfectly until we have our new spiritual bodies, and go thru 1000 years of rehabilitation in the Father's House. We must surrender to Christ. THAT is the essential step. We must be "born again" - of the Spirit. We then begin the process of rehabilitation. Any mistakes we make during that process are then covered by the blood of Christ. Simple really. We do not reject the 10 or the Sabbath. We look at Christ - and see what we will become one day. We try. We engage our efforts. Our attitude is one of submission to Christ as our King. Jesus forgives our failings. We do NOT expect perfection of others, or of ourselves. We also forgive. Complete healing is promised. It will come one day - in the Kingdom. Quote 8thdaypriest
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted December 3, 2014 Moderators Posted December 3, 2014 On the one hand, a belief in right doctrine will no more same me than will doing good works. On the other hand, my belief in correct doctrine may affect my choice as to whether or nit I want to spend eternity with God. On the third hand: In my human condition, I, and not other human has a total right understanding of any doctrine. God has much more to teach me than I can understand in my human condition. So, my salvation depends on much more than my understanding of doctrine. Naomi and Sojourner 2 Quote Gregory
aka Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Justification, Atonement, Sanctification, Glorification= the full package. Justification is by faith in the saving act of Jesus as our Christ. No Merits on our part. Atonement is the sacrifical offer of our blessed God in Christ. No Merits on our part. Sanctification is total commitment to eradicate any vestage of sinful acts within us or what sinful acts we commit. Sanctification is the act of making holy. We come up out of baptism waters not as holy as wished. Sanctification is a work of the Holy Spirit within us for the sake of being made anew into the image of God. Our sanctification works with our obedience level. The more we remain rebellious in a carnal way the less we grow in the Grace of God for the purpose of being sanctified holy unto Him. Our eternal salvation has to do with being saved in by Faith in Him. But part of the package is the continuum of growing in Grace as long as we are alive on this earth and becoming more in the image of Christ in our character. We all groan and moan for the moment of Glorification. All of the four rudimental elements in the first sentence here are intertwined and affects the whole of one's salvation. None of the four are based on human merits. All is of Grace from God and still nonetheless require human free will co-operation. Sojourner 1 Quote
Administrators Gail Posted December 3, 2014 Administrators Posted December 3, 2014 One must be born again. Sojourner 1 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.
JoeMo Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 This is a dangerous question. If doctrines do not matter, why keep the Sabbath? When filled with grace and Spirit, one does not feel the burden of HAVING to honor the Sabbath; the revel in the fact that they GET to honor the Sabbath. We don't HAVE to pray to the King of the universe; we GET to pray to Him. We don't HAVE to do good works; we GET to do them. God's grace empowers us to do His will; Doing His will does not empower us to receive grace. Sojourner and Gail 2 Quote
Ted Oplinger Posted December 3, 2014 Posted December 3, 2014 Belief in correct doctrine flows from true faith in Jesus, just as good works and obedience do. Paul in Romans 10:9 - "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Paul and Silas in Philippi, to a fearful jailer, answered his question of "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?", declared, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." (Acts 16:30-31). This faith in Jesus is what purifies us (enables discernment of correct doctrine and the doing of good works/obedience), as John states in 1 John 3:3 - "And everyone who has this hope in Him purifies himself, just as He is pure." Blessings, aka 1 Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
Sojourner Posted December 4, 2014 Author Posted December 4, 2014 Two friends of mine were born again in the Worldwide Church of God at the time when Herbert Armstrong was the President and they were counting down the numbers of people that were joining, eagerly awaiting the time when that number would hit 144 000 people and the door would be shut. Needless to say the WCOG fell apart and my friends found themselves in an Evangelical Christian Church where they have remained ever since and are now Trinitarian and in a situation where they endorse traditional Christian doctrine. - Yet their testimony is that they most certainley were born again in the WCOG. They did not feel any less born again because their beliefs changed as they entered a mainstream Christian church. They were born again via their encounter with Jesus, not a doctrine book of a church group. That is still their testimony to this day. Gail 1 Quote
aka Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Oh, I forgot that one, Gail. Being born-again of His Spirit in the innermost parts of us gets the motor of spiritual life turned on. It amazes and saddens me at the same time to see super SDA's who are so utterly correct outwardly in fulfilling the established customs of our church's traditions. And in SSchule they have such a good sda education to speak the right doctrinal arguments to cover any discussions brought up. However, I understand now that by no merit of our own doing can we ever make ourselves born-again in that special supernatural way so to receive all of heavenly promises and benefits. Gail 1 Quote
aka Posted December 4, 2014 Posted December 4, 2014 Thank you Ted, for expressing the essence of salvation in the direct simple form of understanding. Now that's the real gospel message. Quote
Ted Oplinger Posted December 5, 2014 Posted December 5, 2014 Thank you Ted, for expressing the essence of salvation in the direct simple form of understanding. Now that's the real gospel message. While credit goes to Christ for the guidance of thought, Christ also credits the willing vessel as if the person did it all by himself. In every case, Yentyl, you are welcome. Blessings, Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
Bert Posted December 6, 2014 Posted December 6, 2014 The key word in the question posed in this thread is 'believe'. Satan 'believes' in Christ, Satan knows the 'right doctrine'. One must believe, and then put into practice what his 'right doctrine' tells him, thus establishing a 'right' relationship with our Maker and Creator. God bless' Discerner Quote
Ted Oplinger Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 The key word in the question posed in this thread is 'believe'. Satan 'believes' in Christ, Satan knows the 'right doctrine'. One must believe, and then put into practice what his 'right doctrine' tells him, thus establishing a 'right' relationship with our Maker and Creator. God bless' Discerner However, of your own will, power and strength, you absolutely cannot put into practice "right doctrine", nor establish a right relationship with God, no matter how hard you "believe"... Quote "As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17 "The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings "Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne "The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan
LifeHiscost Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Believing the right doctrine will no more save you than doing good works will save you. Charles Spurgeon. Agree or Disagree? One cannot separate the principles of salvation. 31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the Truth, and the Truth will make you free." .... John 8 6Jesus said to him, "I am....truth,.... no one comes to the Father but through Me....John 14 31They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Ron Amnsn Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 Although I agree with Charles Spurgeon, the statement by itself presumes a wrong emphasis. It makes it sound as if the focus is "to get saved". Many Christians tend to read (and preach from) the Bible as if it were a manual on "How to get saved," but very little of the Bible actually deals with that. The Bible reveals how God deals with humans, and tells humans how to live and honor God. Part of God's dealings with humans is that he has freely provided salvation. Those who have accepted that salvation would be focused on how to live and honor God, and teaching people the truth about how God deals with humans. Jesus said about the Old Testament, "it is these that testify about Me." (John 5:39) He said the same thing about the role of the Holy Spirit, "He will testify about Me." (John 15:26) We can expect that those two testimonies will agree. How many verses in the Old Testament deal with "making it to heaven"? Almost none. The Israelites apparently believed that God would take care of that. They were more concerned with being "saved" from the sword, famine, pestilence, and bondage. I think it was after the Israelites came into contact with Greek culture (and the Greek myths of hades and the afterlife) that the Jews became concerned with "being saved" in the sense that Christians use that concept. When people asked Jesus about "being saved" He pointed them back to the Scriptures, which at that time was the Old Testament. Quote
Lauralea Posted December 20, 2014 Posted December 20, 2014 While neither good works nor correct doctrine will save you apart from Christ, the lack of good works may put your salvation in jeopardy per James. In some cases, false doctrine may also do so, for example, if it causes one to consult mediums and follow their advice. Quote Behold what manner of love the Father hath given unto us.
JoeMo Posted December 21, 2014 Posted December 21, 2014 In the sermon today, the speaker said something that gave me pause. He said that if the only purpose God had in our lives was to save us, we would die the instant we were "saved". Once we are in the "Family", God has work for each of us to do to carry on the Family business and spread the Family values. Sojourner 1 Quote
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