Speaking in Tongues

[Sojourner]

Greetings all, 

I wanted to ask you what your thoughts are on the subject of Pentecostal Speaking in Tongues in the manner described and demonstrated in this video. 

 

My view is that for a tongue to be valid it has to be in an actual real language that people use and done where someone that speaks it can hear it and understand it because G-d is giving you utterance to do it. 

 

This type of tongue speaking in the video is common in pentecostal churches in Australia. It is not any known language and its done by often the entire congregation at the same time. 

 

I have taken it up with people that Paul says that if someone wishes to speak in a tongue that it is one at a time and must be interpreted - 1Cor 14, yet I am told that this is not the same thing and that this is angelic tongues done in a Spirit Language, of which I can never find any real basis for in Scripture. 

Anyway if you would like to have a quick look at the video and give me your thoughts on this type of speaking in tongues I would love to hear your thoughts from an SDA perspective. 

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Awhile back I was doing some intense study on spiritual warfare.  Read book after book, by authors with different backgrounds.  Five books in a row, identified "tongues speaking" as a vehicle used by the Evil Ones to gain access to vulnerable persons, to harass or even "possess".  I have a friend with a Pentecostal history, who had continued to do the tongues speaking when she was in "deep prayer", long after she left that congregation.  I showed her the material I had found, and she immediately renounced the practice.  She has found freedom from much of the feelings of panic and discouragement that had plagued her.

 

The best book I've found on the subject of tongues speaking, by an author with an SDA background is "Tongues - Dissecting the Gift" by Teresita Perez.  It's just a small book, but covers the subject pretty well.  She doesn't really go into the spiritual warfare aspect.  I have the book posted on my "Recommended Resources" page.

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Gerr]

Pooki poo!  Isn't this the madness that Paul was talking about?

[JoeMo]

dgrimm60 says:

"churches in the U.S. and most Pentecostal church say that you have to have the gift of tongues to be saved"

 

This is inaccurate.  It is true that there are some Pentcostal and charismatic churches teach that speaking in tongues is a requisite gift of the Spirit; and is a necessary and sufficient condition to demonstrate that you have recieved the baptism of the spirit.  However, most devout and honest Pentecostals acknowledge that tongues is a minor gift compared to a gift like prophecy; and that speaking in tongues, while a very self-edifying gift, is no proof that one has been saved or baptized with the spirit.

 

I have the gift of a prayer language.  It came to me and several other men in our church at the same time - fully fleshed out as a complete language.  While it's not a known language, many of the utterances we use are very similar in structure and sound.  We have all agreed to never use it in public worship; and seldom even use it when we are together.  I find it very edifying and it makes me feel really close to God when it is flowing well.

 

I disagree that in general it is a satanic manifestation.  First of all, we were all praying to God for spiritual manifestation when this happened; and I doubt that God would give us a snake for a gift when we asked for a fish.  Second of all, use of the language is totally under my control - it's not like I just start jabbering jibberish with no control over myself; plus I know what I am praying about.  I can't directly translate every word; but (for example) the phrase "abecasa Pate" comes up frequently during prayers of Thanksgiving; so I assume that means something like "thank you, Father".

 

FYI, many tongue-speaking believers call their prayer language "jibberish"; so that's not an insult.

[thx4mercy]

JoeMo, you said, "I have the gift of a prayer language.  It came to me and several other men in our church at the same time - fully fleshed out as a complete language.  While it's not a known language, many of the utterances we use are very similar in structure and sound.  We have all agreed to never use it in public worship; and seldom even use it when we are together."

 

 

So when you pray in your "prayer language" and are with those other men, do they understand what you are praying?

 

[LifeHiscost]

As a practicing Seventh Day Adventist in good standing, I take this counsel from the Word as from God Himself, given through His chosen servant.

 

…4One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. 5Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying. 6But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?…1 Cor 14

 

…27If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; 28but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. 29Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment.…1 Cor 14

 

…39Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues. 40But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner....1 Cor 14

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[JoeMo]

 

So when you pray in your "prayer language" and are with those other men, do they understand what you are praying?

 

 

No; but like I said, we agreed never to use our prayer language in public; so we rarely even use it in front of each other.  I mostly use it right before I go to sleep.

[JoeMo]

I would like to clarify my previous post.  On the rare occasion that we do pray together in response to a prayer request, and switch to our prayer language, we cannot directly translate what the other person is saying.  However, because of some common phraseology that is used in the group, I have a choice to make - either I believe that we are "copying" each other; or that we are in agreement on what we are praying about.  I choose to believe the latter; because when I switch to my prayer language, I don't even realize what I'm saying until it comes out of my mouth; although I know what I'm praying about because it's English in my head.

 

Why would we switch to gibberish, you might well ask.  because sometimes, you run out of words that are meaningful and not repetitive; but you know you are not done praying yet.  So, in switching to one's prayer language, you are making utterances that only your heart (but not words) can express.

 

Please don't judge or condemn me for what I am sharing here.  I'm just honestly expressing my experience.

[JoeMo]

LHC (actually, Paul) says:

"One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church."

 

I agree 100%.  That's why we don't use our prayer language in public worship.

[8thdaypriest]

Thanks for sharing that Joe. 

I have wondered why a private prayer language is needed, and you have answered this question somewhat.

This "language" makes you feel special somehow - closer to God, and like you have been heard by Him. 

Have you tested this gift, and if so - how?

 

The LORD has answered my prayers - often - in English.

Often - wondering if I should witness to a particular individual, I will ask.  Then - in my mind - I will hear words like,  "She is ready" or "Leave her alone" or "Your words will reach her" .

 

I have never experienced a prayer language, although I told the LORD once that I was open to it, but only if it was "of Him". 

I verbally, out loud, renounced everything "of myself", or "of the Enemy". 

 

Of course, there are many "gifts" and individuals do not receive EVERY gift. 

[thx4mercy]

Why would we switch to gibberish, you might well ask.  because sometimes, you run out of words that are meaningful and not repetitive; but you know you are not done praying yet.  So, in switching to one's prayer language, you are making utterances that only your heart (but not words) can express.

 

 

If I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying that you make a conscious choice to switch to your prayer language and you explain why you do it.  But it made me think about what Rom. 8:26 says about the H.S. helping us when we don't know how or what to pray for and the H.S. "intercedes for us through wordless groans."

 

So would what you do take the place of what the Bible tells us the H.S. will automatically do for us?

 

I believe you when you said that you are honestly just telling us your experience.  And I am just honestly trying to understand.

[JoeMo]

8thdaypriest asks:

"Have you tested this gift, and if so - how?"

I sent you a PM for the response.  When you read it, you will know why.

 

If I'm understanding you correctly, you are saying that you make a conscious choice to switch to your prayer language and you explain why you do it.  But it made me think about what Rom. 8:26 says about the H.S. helping us when we don't know how or what to pray for and the H.S. "intercedes for us through wordless groans."

 

So would what you do take the place of what the Bible tells us the H.S. will automatically do for us?

 

I believe that Holy Spirit reads what is truly on our hearts, and translates it to words uttered by us to God.  Don't you ever have feelings, yearnings, and praises that your words can't adequately express?  For me, the Holy Spirit takes those feelings and gives me the utterances to express those feelings.

 

It's not like an addiction or something.  I must admit that I was pretty overwhelmed when it first happened.  In fact, I was kinda creeped out the first few times I heard someone use a prayer language before I got mine.  But now - several years down the road - I view it mostly as a private privilege - something "special" between me and God.  It "enhances" our relationship.  But it is by no means proof of Holy Spirit baptism or salvation.  It is simply a gift - something undeserved and unearned.

[Gerr]

I would be very wary if I prayed in a language I personally did not understand.