regarding torture and the justice system

[Neil D]

[:"blue"]U.S. student found guilty in plot to kill Bush

In a hotly contested case, the Virginian is also convicted of aiding al-Qaida

By JERRY MARKON

Washington Post

WASHINGTON - An American student from Northern Virginia was convicted Tuesday of plotting with al-Qaida to kill President Bush and trying to mount a Sept. 11-style terrorist attack inside the United States.

Federal jurors convicted Ahmed Omar Abu Ali on all nine counts, including conspiracy to assassinate the president, conspiracy to commit aircraft piracy and providing material support to al-Qaida.

The Falls Church, Va., man faces up to life in prison when he is sentenced Feb. 17.

The verdict in U.S. District Court in Alexandria, Va., on the jury's third day of deliberations, brings to a close one of the most hotly contested terrorism cases brought since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Abu Ali, 24, was arrested in Saudi Arabia in June 2003 and held for 20 months. His parents mounted an intensive campaign for his release, suing the U.S. government and accusing it of condoning their son's torture.

Abu Ali was charged with a variety of terrorism counts when he was flown back to the U.S. in February.

Prosecutors said he had confessed to his Saudi jailers that he joined an al-Qaida cell in the kingdom and was determined to kill Bush by shooting him on the street or blowing him up with a car bomb. Law enforcement sources have said the plot to kill Bush never advanced beyond the talking stage.

Abu Ali said the confession was false and was beaten out of him by the Saudis, who whipped him on his back so hard it turned bloody. His lawyers portrayed him as a polite kid from Northern Virginia who went to Saudi Arabia only to pursue religious studies.

Khurrum Wahid, an attorney for Abu Ali, indicated that he would appeal.

"Obviously, the jury has spoken, but the fight is not over," he said. "We plan to continue to use the justice system to pursue our client's innocence."

Members of Abu Ali's family, who attended nearly the entire 2 1/2 -week trial, declined to comment.

The trial, along with an earlier hearing that examined Abu Ali's claims of torture, revolved around the confession prosecutors said he gave to his Saudi jailers. Saudi security officers testified via videotape from Saudi Arabia, insisting that Abu Ali was well treated and confessed willingly [/]

can we have faith in a justice system that allows the use of torture for the admission of guilt for a conviction?

The truth is, I don't think so....

[jasd]

I've not interest in researching the particulars of the article... so, upon that,

let me ask, Is the 'confession' the only 'evidence' upon which the "Federal jurors" deliberated? are we to assume that there was not corroborative evidence? There

usually is.

I don't think one can rely upon 'faith in the justice system' per se, especially when remaining cognizant that we are engaged in a partisan war. One might only

recall the brouhaha revolving around our 'treatment' (read: real torture) of German POWs after WW II. Umm, oops, emendation... DEPs, that is, reclassified 'disarmed enemy forces' -- so designated that we might escape the constraints of the Geneva Convention Accords (let's see, Truman was Prez...). Or one might recall

the 'Detainment' of our very own citizens of Japanese descent -- in concentration camps for the duration of the war; well, that is, after having divested (read: plundered) them of their goods and properties (let's see, FDR was Prez...).

I could go on...

I offer the above not so much that I believe some perspectives might be mitigated... but that I might semi-construct the segue diverging from any allusion to any of the list, and say, of Foreign America, that is,

left of aisle, Capitol Hill, "Hope your next quorum is in Caribe Gitmo!" [/kiddinnggg]

[Neil D]

Quote:

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let me ask, Is the 'confession' the only 'evidence' upon which the "Federal jurors" deliberated? are we to assume that there was not corroborative evidence? There usually is.

---

Ah, the "corrobarative evidence"....something spotty, something not clear, but evidence that points at a person, and you have suspicion....so you bring in your suspect and torture him....And since he is being torture, to relieve the pain, he "corrobarates" your evidence and adds a bit more that is a bit screwy, but hey, you got a confession....

USA justice system still wins.....right?....

[jasd]

>>...he "corrobarates" your evidence and adds a bit more that is a bit screwy, but hey, you got a confession....<<

[:"blue"]"Federal jurors convicted Ahmed Omar Abu Ali on all nine counts, … on the jury's third day of deliberations,..."[/] [ed.]

Actually, I accept, prima facie, without a bloody back, that the Saudis “tortured” Ahmed Ali -- as, I suppose, would most any US juror; however, Ahmed Ali was indicted on all nine counts against him… Does one suppose that all nine counts were generated from a Saudi-extracted confession or that the confession validated nine counts?

Were I prosecuting attorney, I would not want to go before 12 jurors, plus alternates, plus -- let’s not forget the media, and/or Joe Public (career and reputation, y’know)… where the only ‘evidence’ I had was generated or substantiated by, inarguably, a Saudi torture. So, assuming that most prosecutors are minimally, as cautious,

are we to believe that, by and large, everyone was wrong in accepting the verdict of the jury except defense, his attorney(s), family and friends?

>>USA justice system still wins.....right?....<<

Speaking of which: During the Presidency of Wm J ‘Bubba’ Clinton (D) -- our prison population trebled.

Yeah, sometimes you get the bear and sometimes he gets you. But that said,

and having watched all those frightening Executive Orders become law of the land -- bypassing and usurping Congress by publish in the Federal Register,

and having perused photos of ‘camps’ constructed on abandoned military bases since McNamara… and,

having been apprised that our top leaders in govt sold Airline stock prior to 9/11 investing instead in Rail, through the Carlyle Group… and, and, and…,

I concur, should it also be your thinking…, I would not want to run afoul of the US Justice system in the relatively near future -- outwards.

In the meantime: I cannot abide the Politicos in govt or the mangy yellow cur dogs in major media fragging our boys and girls in Iraq whilst in harm’s way. I’m of the opinion that the most miserable quarters in Auschwitz-Birkenau North, Alaska (2-3 million capacity) be reserved for them.