The Faith Factor

[Gregory Matthews]

In another section of Club Adventist the issue of prayer and physical healing has been brought up.  This is an issue that is of increasing interest today.  There is growing body of literature that speaks to whether or not prayer is helpful in physical healing.  Frankly, much of the literature on this subject is of little scientific validity.  One should be careful as to accepting the conclusions of such, regardless of whether or not they agree with any bias that we might have.  It should be noted that much of what is cited today is dated and not concurrent with the findings of today.

 

I will give you two references of some value, I believe.

 

The first is a book by Dr. Dale A. Matthews, with Connie Clark.  That book was first published in 1998.  It has been republished at later times. and by different publishers.  So, it is dated and not up to current findings.  However, I believe that it is of value.  One can purchase it today, in either paperback or hardback, from Amazon and others.

 

Dale A. Matthews & Connie Clark, THE FAITH FACTOR: PROOF OF THE HEALING POWER OF PRAYER.

 

The 2nd book I will recommend is much more current and has the highest standards of scientific knowledge.    As you note the publisher, you will realize that the publisher did not have a bias in favor.  While it addresses a narrow range, it is of value in telling us when faith has a positive influence, when it seems to have no influence and when it has a negative influence on clinical issues.

 

John R. Peteet, Francis G. Lu, William E. Narrow, Editors.  RELIGIOUS AND SPIRITUAL ISSSUES IN PSYCHIATRIC DIAGNOSIS: A RESEARCH AGENDA FOR DSM-V.  American Psychiatric Association, 2011, 277pages.

 

I have invited three (3) people who have posted elsewhere to post here and I welcome others to join in.

[Lauralea]

I think the effects of faith on health are multifactorial and difficult to quantify. However, some things that often go along with faith, like associating with a supportive group (measured in other studies as a support group) and a temperate lifestyle (not addicted to drugs or alcohol) are easier to isolate and quantify and known to be helpful generally.

Interestingly, in 2 studies on 12 step programs, one found that when all participants received a faith oriented component whether they were interested or not, it did not result in increased benefit. However, in a separate study, those who tested stronger in faith practices as measured by a questionnaire also had better outcomes in terms of staying on the temperance program .  

Faith changes us. Sometimes it changes us physically, but more often, it may change our views and behavior, which can positively affect our health. I remember when I had cancer, I was prayed for and I felt like I would get better, but not instantaneously, and I did get better, but gradually using conventional as well as some natural therapies.

[LifeHiscost]

Faith changes us. Sometimes it changes us physically, but more often, it may change our views and behavior, which can positively affect our health. I remember when I had cancer, I was prayed for and I felt like I would get better, but not instantaneously, and I did get better, but gradually using conventional as well as some natural therapies.

In any case, if we willingly yield ourselves to God's care, even that which we might see as only negative is permitted to work out our salvation, to the glory of God.

 

17Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.....James 1

 

 

 

Of Sister Davis it can truly be said, “She hath done what she could.” All the energies of her being were freely given to the work she loved. Her quick appreciation of truth, and her sympathy for the seeker after truth, enabled her to work enthusiastically in preparing for the press the matter which the Lord has given me for his people. I miss her at the fireside, at the table, and at the family altar; but we sorrow not as those who have no hope. The time is not far when the trump of the Archangel shall sound, awaking all who sleep in Jesus to a life of endless joy. 

{RH February 16, 1905, Art. B, par. 14}

 

Even the worst of the disciples circumstances here is determined by the Master of the universe to allow as much reward of eternal consequence to be the believer's hope.

 

…8the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; 9but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM." 10For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.…

1 Cor 2 Emphasis theirs'  LHC

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Bravus]

I think there are two separate issues here and it's helpful to tease them out.

 

Faith can make a difference in our health through purely natural means. Choosing, for faith reasons, to avoid cigarettes and alcohol and too much red meat and the associated fat will definitely have health benefits. Being part of a faith community has the benefits of being a member of a community for health. Having hope is incredibly powerful - the mind itself is incredibly powerful. The placebo effect is a very real natural phenomenon.

 

I don't disagree with any of these effects and benefits (although, for example, the evidence now shows that on balance coffee is beneficial rather than harmful to health, so sometimes faith communities, by their nature, will enshrine incorrect health advice and not be in a position to update their knowledge).

But there is a separate and different issue: does God miraculously, supernaturally intervene in our health? Do miracles of healing occur? I think the evidence for that conclusion is mixed and inconclusive. There are claims made in all three possible directions: no effect, benefit and harm.

This discussion will be more productive if we're very clear which of these issues - natural health benefits of faith or supernatural healing - we are talking about.

[Lauralea]

In any case, if we willingly yield ourselves to God's care, even that which we might see as only negative is permitted to work out our salvation, to the glory of God.

17 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow.....James 1

Yes that is so true Life His Cost. And while from a a secular standpoint those who pray and do not do well medically are not shown to have made a difference, emotional well being is also very important. I did feel encouraged spiritually when I had cancer, and even though I had a much faster outcome than expected, there were other positive things of a health nature I was doing as well. I felt spiritually encouraged, and this was very important to me, but did not expect a supernatural healing.

One reason it is so difficult to study this topic, particularly if those who are observant believers pray and have others pray for them as well, is that this would also cause them to have less depression, and if you did a really rigorous study that also tested mental outlook, you might correct for their more positive outlook which actually resulted from their prayer and personal faith. This could be true in free living believers outside of a study as well and could happen starting almost from the day of the diagnosis- it did for me. I felt a lot of hope and spiritual encouragement, and I believe it may have improved my outcome and the rapidity of my recovery.

While I posted the original citation, more recent studies have not found strong evidence of correlation between prayer and health outcomes. However, the effects of third party prayer in a scientific study are difficult to measure. Prayer may not be helpful in the nonreligious- one study actually found a worse outcome for a random group who was prayed for, possible due to anxiety. So perhaps the studies should compare groups of believers, but how many sincere believers would not pray, and not have any friends or relatives praying for them? If they do pray, they may "invalidate" the study.

[Gregory Matthews]

Bravus: Very important points. The National Geographic report is focused on the one aspect of healthful living. If you remember that work, one group on which it focused was the Seventh-day Adventists. That work has been further published in a book:

Dan Buettner, THE BLUE ZONE: LESSONS FOR LIVING LONGER FROM THE PEOPLE WHO'VE LIVED THE LONGEST. National Geographic, 2008, 278 pages.

The SDA section of the book is pages 123 - 165.

[Lauralea]

Blue Zone is such an interesting book as I recall, Gregory. We used some of the material in health education and lifestyle definitely makes a difference. As I recall, not smoking not drinking (hence not being a heavy drinker) and the low saturated dietary fat were all brought out in the study. I have a friend who knows one of the oldest women interviewed in the piece- I think her name was Marge.

[fccool]

As Bravus points out, the issue here is the reality of standards behind the religious expectations vs the entire spectrum of the non-religious world.  Religion historically was a replacement of political maintenance of human behavior and justification for legal structure.

 

Criminals and people who live unhealthy lifestyles would less likely to be religious, thus it's not really the proportional case of "apples vs apples" comparison.  I don't really dispute some benefits to the vegetarian lifestyles, but of itself it's not the major reason for longevity.  People who practice vegetarianism tend to be of the higher socio-economic and education background,  which would naturally place them in a category of people who can afford healthier lifestyles in general.

 

There were studies done on Mormons that shown life expectancy as high as 84 for males.  And, Mormons eat meat, but abstain from Alcohol and cigarettes. 

 

http://www.scientificintegrityinstitute.org/prevmed2008lifestyle%26mormonmortalityenstrom.pdf

 

If you actually look at the global issues involved, it becomes a case of "statistics show that basketball causes NBA players to be taller, more athletic, and healthier than the rest of the population".  Basketball merely enforces stricter selection sampling when it comes to health standards.   People who play in the NBA are already more likely to be taller, faster, and healthier.   It's similar issue with selection by faith.  People who are addicted to smoking are not likely to become Adventists.   Likewise, people who are not open to vegetarianism are less likely to become Adventists.   People who are involved in illegal activities are not likely to become Adventists.  
 

Therefore, just like NBA, Adventsim tends to select for people with these qualities.   I'm sure that some people do change when they join the church and see the people keep up certain standards, but in general, I think it's more of a selective alignment rather than a causal lifestyle change.

[Gregory Matthews]

The  Latter-day Saint (Mormon) teaching on health is contained in what is called THE WORD OF WISDOM and is found in the book DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS.  Yes, Mormons do eat meat.  However when fully practiced, they limit their consumption to meat below that of the general population.  For a greater understanding of the history of Mormon practice in this regard see:  http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Word_of_Wisdom

 

Here is a statement on that:

 

 

 

Called "a Word of Wisdom" in the introduction, the revelation was given to Joseph Smith at Kirtland, Ohio, on February 27, 1833, when the School of the Prophets was meeting at his home in the Whitney Store. It came in response to the Prophet's inquiry about tobacco, which was being used by some of the men attending the school. The revelation states that it is specifically for the latter days because of "evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men" (D&C 89:4). The Word of Wisdom limited alcohol use to wine for the Sacrament and hard liquor for washing the body. It noted tobacco as useful only for treating bruises and sick cattle. Hot drinks (later defined as coffee and tea) were not for "the body or belly" (D&C 89:9). Additional advice was given permitting the use of meat, but suggesting that it be restricted to winter or times of famine (D&C 89:12-13). The revelation places strong emphasis on the use of grains, particularly wheat, as the staple of the human diet (D&C 89:14, 16-17), and upon fruits and vegetables ("herbs" verse 11; cf. 59:17-18) in season. The Word of Wisdom also states that some "herbs" are present on the earth for the healing of human ailments (D&C 89:8-11). Church members should not consume alcohol, tobacco, tea, or coffee and should use moderation in eating other foods.

 

The above statement presents the teaching as of 1833.  In regard to the use of alcohol for the Sacrament, that has changed and the Mormon Church now has a different practice.  But, from the above, it should be clear that the Mormon Church teaches a reduced consumption of meat products.

 

Here is what Wikipedia says about the Mormon use of water for the Sacrament:

 

 

As introduced by the founder of the Latter Day Saint Movement, Joseph Smith, Jr., the sacrament included the use of fermented wine, though the church now uses water in each congregation's weekly sacrament meeting.

Commanded in an 1830 revelation^[4] not to purchase alcohol from enemies, the church focused on producing its own wine, eventually owning and operating vineyards and wineries in Utah and California (including Napa Valley) during the 19th century.

In 1833 Smith received the revelation known as the Word of Wisdom, part of which states that alcohol consumption is harmful to a person's health and well-being. Initially the Word of Wisdom was treated simply as counsel, and the early saints would still drink alcohol on occasion. During the late 19th century, church leaders slowly started to take the Word of Wisdom as a commandment. This increased respect for the Word of Wisdom, combined with the scripture in Doctrine and Covenants 27: "t mattereth not what ye shall eat or what ye shall drink when ye partake of the Sacrament, if it so be that ye do it with an eye single to my glory," led congregations to begin substituting water for the Sacramental wine. (Water has also been used as a symbol of Christ and his mission at various times, including Jesus's 'living water' sermon.) The practice was officially adopted church-wide in 1912.

[fccool]

Gregory,  I think that's a little bit besides the point I was making.  The question is whether the faith itself is a causal mechanism, or whether faith is merely a selective mechanism that tends to appeal to some people and not the other.  

 

The real question is whether the attributes carrying all of the positive characteristics of humanity are dependent on faith, and whether all of the negative characteristics are attributed to the lack of.   Many times the case is made from the pulpit that faith is the cause of these things.   Faith tends to be a "No True Scottsman would" type of issue, and it appropriates the qualities that tends to exist outside of it.

 

I've met a lot of intelligent people who are convinced that TM is the reason for their financial success and healthy lifestyle, but all they do is get up early in the morning and hum for 30 minutes, and then believe that it creates some sort of positive effect on their lives.   Of itself, such belief becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy of which TM is a placebo. 

 

It's really the same issue with weightloss pills, which put a disclaimer that "Moderate exercise and improved diet will generate adequate results".     In most cases, the pill is a placebo.   People already want to lose weight.   They are looking for mechanism, or a program.   People who are successful tend to follow the program doing all of the work., yet they believe that it's the result of the pill.

 

That's how rational people tend to view faith, as incidental to the work that people are doing.  And it really shows when people begin listing their answers to prayers.   I've prayed for a job, and I got it.   Praise the Lord!   But, what would be the actual mechanics behind such action?   Does God cause an employer to discriminate on bases that someone prayed?   If God doesn't, then the prayer is merely a form of wishful thinking.  

 

It's really the same thing with "The Secret" and "The law of attraction".   Think of what you really want, and concentrate on it hard every day, and the universe will re-arrange itself to get what you need.   But the issue is, the moment that you really want something, it's not the Universe, but yourself that does the work to get that something.   You notice the opportunities that you'd otherwise ignore.   It almost seems miraculous that these opportunities are there.  

 

In science we are not merely concerned with statistical correlations.   We are mostly concerned with how these are related, and how one thing causes the other.   The real power of understanding resides in not merely understanding that something works, but in understanding of how it works.    

[Tom Wetmore]

If you do a risk factor/longevity test, there are several factors that substantially outweigh diet to increase longevity. As I recall the factor that makes the most difference is exercise, even at a easily attained moderate level, such as walking. Not smoking also has a significant impact on longevity, but not as much as exercise. An overweight (not obese) individual that exercises regularly is likely in better health than a normal weight person that does not. Even a smoker that exercises regularly is likely to be in nearly as good health as a sedentary non-smoker, all else being equal.

[Gregory Matthews]

Fccool & Tom:  I appreciate your comments.

 

The issue here is multi-factorial, which people often forget.  But, in my thinking, in such cases even minor and tangential issues have some value.  So, I may point them out even though I may not consider them to be a major issue in context.

[Bravus]

I'd be interested to know whether anyone participating in this thread is claiming that there is supernatural intervention.

If all of the effects of faith on health are natural results of lifestyle choices, then obviously it's quite possible to receive all of those benefits without actually having faith...

[Gregory Matthews]

No, it is not so obvious.

 

Read the APA Book that I cited.  It, as I understand it, attributes positive clinical results, in some cases, to factors that are beyond lifestyle choices.  Yet, that APS Book does not begin to advocate for the existence of a God who is involved in human  life.

 

Bravus, perhaps you have not been clear as to where you are and what you wanted to say?   Surely your acknowledge the existence of psychological factors that influence the human condition, lie outside of lifestyle choices and yet may be postulated as the natural product of our humanity--IOW, they are not supernatural.

 

I happen to believe in positive values for faith that are not supernatural.  But, I also believe in a God who is involved in human life.    But, I believe that we often evade our own personal responsibility be attributing power to both God and Satan that actually came from within ourselves. 

[Bravus]

Yes, I'm just asking the question, not making a statement: does anyone want to stand by the claim, and bring evidence for it, that there is something supernatural going on? I see a lot of discussion of purely natural benefits, which is great, but the other part of the issue seems to be being avoided, or at least ignored.

[LifeHiscost]

Stand up for Jesus, young friends, and in your time of need Jesus will stand up for you. “By their fruits ye shall know them.” Either God or Satan controls the mind; and the life shows so clearly that none need mistake to which power you yield allegiance. Every one has an influence either for good or for evil. Is your influence on the side of Christ or on that of Satan? Those who turn away from iniquity enlist the power of Omnipotence in their favor.

{FE 89.1}

 

I am just now watching a man at GYC pointing out his conversion from non-Christian to SDA Christian, who had been heavily influenced by the SOP along with the Scripture. Having a masters degree (forget what in) I found him highly motivated in the recognition there is no middle ground. One is either led by Jesus or led by Jesus' archenemy. His positive statements re: this being the last days as he was led by God to believe, as well as God having His servants on earth in this most troublesome time, to help fine tune the sincere believer is not without biblical direction.

 

…6If a trumpet is blown in a city will not the people tremble? If a calamity occurs in a city has not the LORD done it? 7Surely the Lord GOD does nothing Unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets. 8A lion has roared! Who will not fear? The Lord GOD has spoken! Who can but prophesy?…Amos 3

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Lauralea]

Bravus I think there are 2 parts to your question- is there supernatural intervention, and is it measurable by commonly designed scientific experiments.  Please see my post for my opinions on the measuring of the effects of prayer.

I believe there is providential intervention, but that it is not subject to the type of case control scientific experiments commonly used in science.I believe the ability of man to comprehend is finite. The smartest person on Earth would still have to be... limited... next to God. So I do not believe we can define or study him or his extraordinary workings, in the same way we might study for example, the law of gravity. I do not want to get into a theological or other debate on the subject but that is what I believe. I posted my personal story on another thread. However, I do not believe that the Lord primarily works in miraculous healings today, or that all or even most purportedly miraculous healings are from God, nor does my faith rest on them.

[fccool]

I believe the ability of man to comprehend is finite. The smartest person on Earth would still have to be... limited... next to God. So I do not believe we can define or study him or his extraordinary workings, in the same way we might study for example, the law of gravity. I do not want to get into a theological or other debate on the subject but that is what I believe. I posted my personal story on another thread. However, I do not believe that the Lord primarily works in miraculous healings today, or that all or even most purportedly miraculous healings are from God, nor does my faith rest on them.

 

I'm not sure that understanding infinity and all of what God is would matter when it comes to understanding some relevant evidence behind any given event that we experience.

 

For example, if there is a guy who claims to have a supernatural ability to force the outcome of the coin flip with his mind, and we statistically measure him doing what he does, would we accept the negligible difference based on a controlled experiment set up?   Let's say that he does have a higher percentage of heads than both control group and known statistical average.   Would that suggest that he can indeed change the outcome by some unknown and incomprehensible force, mechanics of which no-one can explain?

 

I'm not sure how one can claim the efficacy of prayer and provide the study you point to as evidence.   I would expect the results to be much more conclusive.  

 

As for the claim that God is infinite and incomprehensible,  I'm not sure why that would matter when it comes to the argument.   Universe seems to be quite vast, and we barely comprehend the underlying mechanics behind many of the phenomena, which we can only describe conceptually.   Yet these phenomena don't leave much room for doubt, especially when we approach these with science in mind.   Whether we can comprehend gravity is irrelevant to the point that gravity is observable with great degree of measurable consistency.

 

Why would the consistency of efficacy prayer be so shaky as to suggest no significant difference if prayer works?

[8thdaypriest]

 To know that the LORD has promised to heal all diseases, and to continue in pain, is to me, the greatest test of faith.   I try to consider my own situation in the light of how others are suffering.  I could be a poor Muslim woman, living in a mud hut, being beaten 3 times a day.  I could be paralyzed in a wheelchair.  So - compared to others, my suffering is very mild.

 

I personally KNOW that the LORD does heal, but not frequently.  I think He heals when it will accomplish something significant or His plan. 

 

I will share with you a personal experience.

I was a nurse anesthetist, working at Presbyterian Hospital in Albuquerque.  I was assigned a case for an eye surgery - a corneal transplant.  Normally, those were done with just sedation, but the surgeon wanted a general for this woman - maybe because he thought it might take longer than usual.  Anyway, the woman was 72 and on high blood pressure medication.  We got her to sleep, and intubated, and had given her a paralyzing drug.  We monitored the level of paralysis using a nerve stimulation at her wrist which was on my side of the OR table.  I tested the paralysis, and thought it was just beginning to wear off.  I was reaching for the syringe to give another dose, when she got "light" and coughed on the endotrachael tube.  She was never "awake".  This was just a reflex.  We had to keep her "light" because her blood pressure dropped very low with the anesthesia.  We were giving a drug to keep her BP up. 

 

Anyway - when she coughed, she ruptured a vessel in the choroid plexus behind the retina.  Blood filled the globe of her eye, and floated the retina almost out the pupil, which was now "open".  The surgeon held the graft in place with one finger, and put 30 stitches around it to hold it on.  He thought he would have to remove the eye, but decided not to do it at that time.  I went around and looked thru the microscope at the eye, and so did my anesthesiologist chief. 

 

I was devastated!!!  I had never had something "bad" happen to a patient before.  I couldn't eat.  I couldn't sleep.  I would sit and rock.  This happened on a Friday. 

We got up and went to church on Sabbath, and I asked the head elder to pray for this patient during church. 

He did.  The whole church prayed for my patient. 

I didn't know it then, but her church did the same the next day.

 

On Sunday afternoon I was sitting in the living room, and I "heard" a voice say, "I have healed her." 

I was so startled I said, "If I just heard what I heard, would you say that again". 

I heard it again.

 

On Monday, I went in to relieve the CRNA giving anesthesia in the room where the surgeon was working - the one who did my patient's case.

When he heard my voice, he stopped and looked around from the microscope.

"Is that you Rachel", he said.

"Yes that's me, I quietly replied"

"Boy have I got news for you".

"Her eye is healed, isn't it !!", I said excitedly.

 

"Rachel, she came into my exam room this morning and told me, 'Don't you worry. The Lord has healed me.'"

"I covered her good eye, took the bandage off the other, and asked her to tell me how many fingers I was holding up.

She said, 'Three". 

I have searched the Medline databases, and I even called my preceptor at the Mayo.

He told me, 'Give it up John. You're looking at a miracle'." 

 

The surgeon said to me, "I've never been a believer in such things Rachel, but I'm gonna have to rethink things."

 

The news spread like wildfire, because there were 3 other people in the room besides the surgeon and me.

I had people coming up and asking if they could touch me.

I had people asking me to pray for them.

 

The anesthesiologist who was with me when the rupture occurred was a Hindu.

I later noticed him reading Josh McDowell's "More than a Carpenter".

I had left a copy in the anesthesiology lounge.

 

This miracle effected so MANY people. 

I'm sure I will learn of the ripples from it, when I get to The City. 

 

Blessings,

Rachel

[phkrause]

Great story Rachel, This happens far more than we know, but obviously not as much as we would like it. I don't believe there is any way to really explain it one way or the other. Why God chooses to heal some and not others! There's definitely a purpose or reason behind and I believe its we that need to look and find out what it means to each of us.

[Lauralea]

I'm not sure that understanding infinity and all of what God is would matter when it comes to understanding some relevant evidence behind any given event that we experience.

 

For example, if there is a guy who claims to have a supernatural ability to force the outcome of the coin flip with his mind, and we statistically measure him doing what he does, would we accept the negligible difference based on a controlled experiment set up?   Let's say that he does have a higher percentage of heads than both control group and known statistical average.   Would that suggest that he can indeed change the outcome by some unknown and incomprehensible force, mechanics of which no-one can explain?

 

I'm not sure how one can claim the efficacy of prayer and provide the study you point to as evidence.   I would expect the results to be much more conclusive.  

 

As for the claim that God is infinite and incomprehensible,  I'm not sure why that would matter when it comes to the argument.   Universe seems to be quite vast, and we barely comprehend the underlying mechanics behind many of the phenomena, which we can only describe conceptually.   Yet these phenomena don't leave much room for doubt, especially when we approach these with science in mind.   Whether we can comprehend gravity is irrelevant to the point that gravity is observable with great degree of measurable consistency.

 

Why would the consistency of efficacy prayer be so shaky as to suggest no significant difference if prayer works?

Post 6 gives reasons why using blinded studies is probably not appropriate in this case.

[LifeHiscost]

 

This miracle effected so MANY people. 

I'm sure I will learn of the ripples from it, when I get to The City. 

 

Blessings,

Rachel

And can you imagine the many just from this forum alone that will hear of this through your post, those who know Jesus personally and rejoice while their heart beats faster X?. Unbelievers who give 2nd thought to something they would like to experience themselves and begin searching. Thank you for sharing, Rachel.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Raphael]

Very nice thread.. I like this thread.. Knowledge about God's dealings with humans may come handy but still comes short if not accompannied with victories.. Victories in the form of happy experiences ofcourse.. Like the gentle sunlight after the long deadly night..

Faith is more like an attitude of the mind while prayer is more to direct summonning of powers beyond one's self..

All are needed and have its proper places ofcourse..

I prefer to view or define faith as simply never giving up.. Very simple.. But ofcourse there are proper protocols that faith can't replace, like proper prayer request of sin cleansing or sin forgiveness..

I've been through long and lots of real live experiences with upstairs but 99% while like in prison mode.. But I don't know.. It's just built in maybe that I just don't or never give up..

Building, developing this never giving up character for the right direction I believe is the most crucial and deciding for Christian life journeys.

[LifeHiscost]

If you do a risk factor/longevity test, there are several factors that substantially outweigh diet to increase longevity.

This is one of the better places to find ways of living longer, which  proves to me that living longer is not necessarily living better, especially if you're interested in living eternally. I've heard that stress is one of the more influential factors in lowering ones' longevity.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/23/100-ways-live-to-100_n_3956896.html

 

…15"He will call upon Me, and I will answer him; I will be with him in trouble; I will rescue him and honor him. 16"With a long life I will satisfy him And let him see My salvation."....Psalms 91

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[LifeHiscost]

I've been through long and lots of real live experiences with upstairs but 99% while like in prison mode.. But I don't know.. It's just built in maybe that I just don't or never give up..

 

I'm of the opinion faith and trust equate.

 

5Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.…Proverbs 3

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves!