An end to sacrifices

[8thdaypriest]

Hebrew Roots teachers emphasize the fact that Paul went up to the Temple to offer sacrifice, and that the believers in Jerusalem were "all zealous for the law" and continued to offer sacrifice also. 

 

I noticed that the KJV and NKJV differ from the other translations (CJB, NIV, NRS).  They leave out the words (following in blue) which would specifically exempt the Gentile believers from the sacrificial system. 

 

Acts 21:25 "But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality." (NKJ)

 

After Christ's death, salvation, and the forgiveness of sins, and rightness with God COULD be found apart from the Temple sacrificial system for by far the greater majority of believers. 

(In fact - the Temple has been GONE for 1900 years, but we still find salvation today WITHOUT the Temple or the sacrifices.)

 

If you are correct, then God wanted circumcised Jews to continue with the symbolic illustration, while teaching that it was all fulfilled in Jesus Christ,

That COULD be - at least for awhile - some 40 more years.   After that, there was no Temple, and in fact no City of Jerusalem either.

 

The LORD could have preserved His Temple, but He allowed it to be destroyed. 

The Temple only functioned for some 500 years, and has been GONE for almost 2000. 

By the time of Jesus, the High Priesthood was occupied by a Roman appointee - who was not even a descendant of Aaron. 

 

I noticed that the CJB calls it a "transformation of the Torah" rather than a "change" of the law in Hebrews 7:12. 

[8thdaypriest]

I'm focused on Ezekiel's Temple. 

The inside of the Temple is virtually empty. 

Nothing in the HP, and nothing in the MHP. 

 

But sacrifice continued in the courtyard. 

 

What to make of THAT ???

 

And the glory of the LORD comes into THAT Temple.

And healing water flows out from the MHP of that Temple.  (Joel 3:17-18, Zechariah 14:8, Revelation. 22:1)

 

This water represents the Spirit of God. 

It is the "living water". 

We are baptized in it, and sprinkled with it, washed with it, and we drink it.) 

 

Psalm 104:30  “You send forth Your spirit, they are created; and You renew the face of the earth.”

 

Maybe the Temple itself appears EMPTY , because the Temple represented "heaven itself" and

at this point, Christ is NOT in heaven.  He has returned to earth, and is ministering HERE. 

 

Just thinking.
 

[Ron Amnsn]

All of the sacrifices of the old testament were meant to point forward to the Sacrifice to come, ie: Jesus. Once His sacrifice had been made, the purpose of the earthly sacrifices no longer existed.

 

You repeat a very popular man-made doctrine.  Where does it teach that in Scripture?  Really.  The sacrifices certainly point to Jesus, but where does it say that the only purpose of the sacrifices was to point forward to what Jesus would do?

 

Scripture actually gives several other reasons for sacrifices. Here are a few:

 

Demonstration of faith and righteousness

Hebrews 11:4  -   By faith Abel offered to God a better sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained the testimony that he was righteous, God testifying about his gifts, and through faith, though he is dead, he still speaks.

 

Remembrance and Memorial

Exodus 12:17-28  -  Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel and said to them, “Go and take for yourselves lambs according to your families, and slay the Passover lamb.  ...    And you shall observe this event as an ordinance for you and your children forever.  ...    And when your children say to you, ‘What does this rite mean to you?’  you shall say, ‘It is a Passover sacrifice to the LORD who passed over the houses of the sons of Israel in Egypt when He smote the Egyptians, but spared our homes.’

 

Speaking of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, which included a number of special sacrifices Exodus 12:14 says,   ‘Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance.'

 

Deuteronomy 16:2-3  -  You shall sacrifice the Passover to the LORD your God from the flock and the herd, in the place where the LORD chooses to establish His name. You shall not eat leavened bread with it; seven days you shall eat with it unleavened bread, the bread of affliction (for you came out of the land of Egypt in haste), so that you may remember all the days of your life the day when you came out of the land of Egypt.

 

A soothing aroma for YHWH

Genesis 8:20-21  -  Then Noah built an altar to the LORD, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar. The LORD smelled the soothing aroma; and the LORD said to Himself, “I will never again curse the ground on account of man, for the intent of man’s heart is evil from his youth; and I will never again destroy every living thing, as I have done.

 

Exodus 29:18  -    You shall offer up in smoke the whole ram on the altar; it is a burnt offering to the LORD: it is a soothing aroma, an offering by fire to the LORD.

 

Also see Exodus 29:25, 29:41, Leviticus 1:9,1317, 2:2,9 etc. & etc.

 

Portion for the priests

Leviticus 7:28-35  ...    The priest shall offer up the fat in smoke on the altar, but the breast shall belong to Aaron and his sons.  ...   The one among the sons of Aaron who offers the blood of the peace offerings and the fat, the right thigh shall be his as his portion. For I have taken the breast of the wave offering and the thigh of the contribution from the sons of Israel from the sacrifices of their peace offerings, and have given them to Aaron the priest and to his sons as their due forever from the sons of Israel.  This is that which is consecrated to Aaron and that which is consecrated to his sons from the offerings by fire to the LORD, in that day when he presented them to serve as priests to the LORD.  These the LORD had commanded to be given them from the sons of Israel in the day that He anointed them. It is their due forever throughout their generations.

 

Cleansing

Luke 5:14  -   And He ordered him to tell no one, “But go and show yourself to the priest and make an offering for your cleansing, just as Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”

 

Leviticus 14:10-32  ...   Then the eighth day he shall bring them for his cleansing to the priest, at the doorway of the tent of meeting, before the LORD.  ...

 

Forgiveness

Leviticus 4:20   -   He shall also do with the bull just as he did with the bull of the sin offering; thus he shall do with it. So the priest shall make atonement for them, and they will be forgiven.

 

Leviticus 5:10   -   The second he shall then prepare as a burnt offering according to the ordinance. So the priest shall make atonement on his behalf for his sin which he has committed, and it will be forgiven him.

 

See also Leviticus 5:13,16,18, 6:7, etc.

 

Reminder of Sins

Hebrews 10:3   -    But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.

 

Numbers 5:15   -   the man shall then bring his wife to the priest, and shall bring as an offering for her one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall not pour oil on it nor put frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of memorial, a reminder of iniquity.

[Ron Amnsn]

No, it is not circular reasoning. It is reasoning from all that ihas been written  in the OT.  Why would anyone think that Gabriel would tell Daniel that "anointing the Most Holy" and "Messiah the Prince" would be anyone else but Daniel,S and Israel's promised Messiah- Jesus,the Christ whom all Israel and Daniel have been longing for? The time line is perfect, And His mission and manner of death fit OT prophecies

Yes, God did say sacrifices ceased in His eyes. He said it through his servant Gabriel to Daniel; and God told the exact time as well- 486 and one half years after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem.

 

The circular reasoning goes like this:

Jesus is the Messiah, therefore Jesus fulfilled the prophecy about Messiah in Daniel 9:26-27.

The prophecy in Daniel 9:26-27 says (according to your interpretation) that Messiah (rather than the "prince who is to come" that destroys the city and the sanctuary) puts an end to sacrifices, therefore the sacrifices must end during the work of Jesus because Jesus is the Messiah, so Jesus has to fulfill the prophecy in Daniel 9:26-27, which you [mis]interpret to say that Messiah will put an end to sacrifices, therefore the sacrifices must end during the work of Jesus, because Jesus is the Messiah. How many times shall we go around that circle?

 

People who read Scripture in context will know that part of Daniel 9:26-27 is not referring to the Messiah because Gabriel tells Daniel specifically that "the people of the prince who shall come will destroy the city and the sanctuary".  Was that Jesus?  No. Speaking of Daniel's prophecies Jesus said, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains."  Does that sound like Jesus is the same person as the abomination of desolation?  No.  In Daniel 11:31 it says, "Forces from him will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the abomination of desolation."  Although Daniel 9:26-27 is not totally clear (to Gentiles) whether it is Messiah or "the prince who is to come" that causes the sacrifices to cease, Daniel 11:31 makes it clear that it is the same sort of person who establishes the abomination of desolation that desecrates the sanctuary and does away with the regular sacrifice.  Was that Jesus?  No.

 

In order to believe your circle of logic, a person has to ignore the fact that the destruction of the city and the sanctuary are part of the very same prophecy and those events were not fulfilled by Jesus as the Messiah, but rather they were fulfilled by the army of Titus, which also caused the sacrifices to cease.  None of the events fulfilled by Titus fit into the timeframe of 490 years that you are teaching, so either your timeframe is wrong or God did not intend for some of the events to be interpreted within the 490-year timeframe.

 

The Jews do not accept your circular reasoning because they know a bit of history and they know quite a bit of the Scriptures.  God instructed the Israelites to offer sacrifices throughout their generations and promised the descendants of Aaron a perpetual priesthood that will continue as long as day and night continue.  God instructed the Israelites to not follow the teachings of someone who sets aside the instructions that God gave to Moses.  You claim that your "Jesus" put an end to something that God promised and instructed would continue throughout the generations of Israel.  So your "Jesus" tries to make a liar out of God.  It's a no-brainer that your interpretation of "Jesus" is not the Messiah of Israel, if he actually did what you claim he did. 

 

The few Jews who have read the New Testament also know that the Jesus of the Bible actually taught in agreement with the Old Testament and taught specifically that not a jot or tittle would disappear from the written Law.  

 

Because your doctrine regarding Messiah causing the sacrifices to cease is contrary to God's Word in the Old Testament and contrary to the teachings of the real Jesus, it is apparent that there is something wrong with your doctrine.  I suggest that it is your out-of-context interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27.

 

Jesus said, “Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering." (Matt 5:23-24)  Does that sound like someone who is planning to do away with offerings presented at the altar?

That is recorded just 5 verses after Jesus declared that not a stroke would disappear from the Law until heaven and earth pass away.

[8thdaypriest]

Daniel fainted after the vision of the Ram and Goat (Daniel 8).  His anxiety was over the 2300 evening mornings, during which the "little horn" would 

"exalt himself as high as the Prince of the host", and take away "the daily", and "cast down" the "place of His Sanctuary".

 

I agree that the answers given in Daniel 9, were to explain further "the vision" of Daniel 8, but also the persecution period of Daniel 7 (time, times, and a part). 

 

At the end of the 2300 evening-mornings the Sanctuary would be "cleansed".  The word "cleansed" is in the perfect tense, meaning the process of cleansing would be completed at the end of the 2300 (not begin a process that would take some 175+ years).  Which is WHY the whole 1844 investigative judgment thing does not make any sense to me.  Besides - Jesus said, "I know my sheep."  He would not need 175+ years to decide.  The very day that He receives the dominion/kingdom, He will immediately return for His people.

 

Daniel would have understood this "cleansed" (Dan 8:14) as the Temple being reconsecrated with the ashes of the red heifer.  A process which took 7 days.

He could possibly have understood "cleansed" as the Day of Atonement cleansing, but that's not certain.    

 

There was NO TEMPLE.  It had been destroyed, when Daniel received these visions.

Yet the LORD tells him that the "little horn" will "take away the daily" (the perpetual) and that "the place of His (the LORD's) Sanctuary" (that would be the Temple) would be "cast down". 

 

Daniel had already heard the 1260 (time, times and a part) of terrible persecution prophesied (Daniel 7 vision). 

So he is thinking about another round of terrible persecution for his people. 

 

To Daniel, it would have sounded like the Temple would be rebuilt and restored, only to be destroyed again by the "little horn" who would persecute his people for 3.5 years. 

 

At the end of the 3.5 years, "the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High". 

 

Daniel would naturally want to know WHEN this period of persecution will take place, and how the 2300 evening mornings, FITS into "the time, times and a part".

 

He would equate what happens during the 2300 (host trampled underfoot v.13), with the persecution of the "time, times, and a part". 

 

2300 evening mornings COULD be 1150 days  (1150 evenings + 1250 mornings), which WOULD FIT within the 1260 days. 

 

Seventy weeks (490 days) would also FIT within the 1260 days (42 months). 

 

NOW,

The saints did NOT receive the kingdom 3.5 years after Titus destroyed the Temple and terribly persecuted "the people", 

nor did they receive it 1260 years after Titus destroyed the Temple (1330AD),

so I do NOT think the destruction of the Temple by Titus is a good fit for the "little horn".

 

AND, I do not believe the 1260 represents the period of papal rule between 538 and 1798.   The 42 months of rule by the beast in Rev. 13,  FOLLOWS AFTER the "deadly wound" to one of his heads is "healed".  The healing of his head is what makes the world marvel, and then worship him. 

 

The way in which the daily is "taken away"  (Daniel 8) MATCHES the way in which the "he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering" (Dan 9)  

BOTH are by destroying the Temple. 

 

I personally DO BELIEVE that the "daily" in Daniel 8:11, IS  the evening-morning continual burnt offering  (Lev. 6:12-13, Exo 29:38-42, Rev. 11:2). 

I realize I'm disagreeing with EGW.

 

I DO BELIEVE that a Temple will be rebuilt on that Mount in the last days, just before Christ returns in glory.

I believe those who rebuild the Temple WILL restore animal sacrifice there. 

I believe that Temple will be there for 3.5 years, and then the "little horn" will set himself up there.

I BELIEVE that the "abomination of desolation" will stand in that Holy Place (Matt 24:15).

THEN the last period of 3.5 years of persecution will begin. 

 

Daniel 11:31  "and forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily, and place there the abomination of desolation". 

 

It is NOT a metaphor for the Pope standing in place of Christ Jesus. 

 

The LORD is telling us (thru Daniel) what to look for in the very last days.

When we see Jerusalem being restored after a terrible attack, and SEE a Temple restored on that Mount, it will trigger the witness by the "two witnesses" of Rev. 11. 

[8thdaypriest]

The restoration of a Temple on the Mount will be a sign of the end, but it does NOT prove to me, that animal sacrifices are still something that my GOD wants me to do. 

[JoeMo]

Rachel,

Your last 2 posts are AWESOME!  I wish I could write an clearly as you do.  I agree with everything you posted.

[8thdaypriest]

JOT OR TITTLE

 

Matthew 5:17-18  [Yeshua speaking] “Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfill.  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.” (ASV) 

 

So Ron,

When do you believe "all things" will be accomplished? 

Is it when "heaven and earth pass away"? 

Will it be when Messiah sets up His Kingdom on earth?

Will it be after the "lake of fire" when Messiah turns the Kingdom over to God the Father? 

WHEN?

 

So you do not believe that Yeshua accomplished "all things" when He died.  Right?

 

He came “to fulfill” the Law.  Did He fulfill the Law? - Yes!  “He was obedient unto death” (Phil. 2:8).  So THAT was accomplished!!

 

    Acts 13:29  “Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb.”

    Luke 24:44 [speaking post resurrection] “Then He said to them, ‘These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the prophets and the Psalms concerning me.”

    Acts 3:18 “But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled.”

    John 19:28-30 “After this, Jesus, knowing that all things had already been accomplished, to fulfill the Scripture, said, 'I am thirsty.'

 

 

It seems you focus on the "heaven and earth" passing away, rather than on the fulfillment of prophecies concerning the death of Messiah.

 

HEAVEN AND EARTH WILL PASS AWAY

 

Mark 13:31  “Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.  But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
          In context He was speaking of His own glorious return.  

    2 Peter 3:10  “But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.”

        Perhaps we could at least agree that AFTER the return of Christ in glory, that something may pass from the Law, allowing for “spiritual sacrifices” only in the coming kingdom of Messiah.

 

Ahhh,

But then there is Ezekiel's Temple, with seeming sacrifices.

You know the alter in the courtyard of Ezekiel's Temple is SMALLER than the one outside Solomon's Temple.

That seems odd, when you consider that millions MORE people would need to bring sacrifices there. 

And "steps" lead up to that alter, which is a change of the law, because "steps" were not allowed according to the ancient Torah. 

 

Unless perhaps, what the people will see there is a heavenly video of the ancient sacrifices morphing into the death of Christ on the cross.

The "priests" would help the people to assimilate what they see. 

Up until the last 200+ years, people in general did NOT read or write.

The people resurrected AFTER the 1000 years (the rest of the dead) would need to learn about the sacrifice of Messiah by a different means.

 

There is nothing in the Holy Place.  THAT'S a "change" from the Torah.

There is nothing but a throne in the MHP.  No Ark with stone tablets.  THAT's a change from the Torah. 

[Ron Amnsn]

The restoration of a Temple on the Mount will be a sign of the end, but it does NOT prove to me, that animal sacrifices are still something that my GOD wants me to do. 

 

You're very right, Rachel.  It doesn't prove it to me either.  Those who say that God has abolished the animal sacrifices could be correct. Personally, I kind of hope they are.  However, I haven't found anything in the Bible that shows clearly that God has retracted his instructions for sacrifice should there ever be a functioning Levitical priesthood in Jerusalem -- and prophecy says there will be. 

 

The God of the Bible always provided very clear instructions to his people when he gave them new instructions that conflicted with previous instructions.  The verses that people wrest from their contexts in order to show that the animal sacrifices are abolished, are totally uncharacteristic of the God of the Bible-- at best they are merely allusions or hints that would be accepted only by those who already didn't want to follow God's Old Testament instructions.  Christianity has a long tradition not valuing God's Old Testament instructions, so the momentum is certainly in favor of those who say that God abolished the sacrifices.

 

I'm just trying to say, "Show me" where God actually said that.  I know I sometimes come across too intensely. Sorry.  I just want to know what's true. Give me your best evidence, in context, and in a way that respects the sequence of how things happened.

[8thdaypriest]

When they rebuild, I'll bet they put up a "Gentiles keep out wall" and probably a "court of women too". 

Those are both missing from Ezekiel's Temple. 

 

They would not LET a non-Hebrew women in there to offer a sacrifice anyway.  Especially one who professes faith in Yeshua as Messiah.  LOL !

[LifeHiscost]

You repeat a very popular man-made doctrine.  Where does it teach that in Scripture?  Really.  The sacrifices certainly point to Jesus, but where does it say that the only purpose of the sacrifices was to point forward to what Jesus would do?

I don't recall saying that was the only thing to which they pointed, however I would suggest it is the most important truth. If you find something more important than that, if the Holy Spirit is leading you to develop other ideas, I would say you would be remiss if you didn't follow His leading.

 

…10For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory. 12Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech,…2 Cor 3

 

It is not that we are competent in ourselves to consider anything as coming from ourselves, but our competence is from God. 6He has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit produces life. 2 Cor 3

 

10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.…1 Cor 3

 

God is Love! Jesus saves! 

[LifeHiscost]

The restoration of a Temple on the Mount will be a sign of the end, but it does NOT prove to me, that animal sacrifices are still something that my GOD wants me to do. 

Is it true that this temple you are referring to was originally in the place where there is now a mosque? If that is true it would seem to be a contention point that would lead to warfare if that mosque were razed to make place for a Christian or Hebrew building.

 

Just asking, which tends to show my ignorance.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Ron Amnsn]

Is it true that this temple you are referring to was originally in the place where there is now a mosque? If that is true it would seem to be a contention point that would lead to warfare if that mosque were razed to make place for a Christian or Hebrew building.

 

Just asking, which tends to show my ignorance.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

There are some different opinions as to where the Temple was located on the Temple mount.  The most popular tradition is that it was located in the same place as the Dome of the Rock building is now standing.  It is a contention point.

 

Do you think that satan would not plan to cause conflict when God' Temple is rebuilt?  There was contention when God told Zerubabel to rebuild the Temple in the time Ezra.  Warfare is something that the God of hosts (armies) can handle.

[8thdaypriest]

Is it true that this temple you are referring to was originally in the place where there is now a mosque? If that is true it would seem to be a contention point that would lead to warfare if that mosque were razed to make place for a Christian or Hebrew building.

 

Just asking, which tends to show my ignorance.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

There is some controversy concerning the exact location of the ancient Most Holy Place.  I have a couple of books by authors who contend that the present location of the Dome of the Rock is where the ancient Antonia Fortress used to be, NOT where the Temple stood.  That would be the Roman garrison at Jerusalem during Herod's reign.  Those authors say that the "Wailing Wall" is really the wall of the fortress - not the Temple courtyard.  I've read both sides, from several authors, but - not being an expert myself, cannot say who is right.

 

IF - the Dome of the Rock is located over the Most Holy Place of the ancient Temple, THEN yes - there would need to be a very BIG destruction and leveling of that, before a Temple could be built.  But remember - only an alter made of natural stones, and a Levite priest (consecrated for 7 days next to the alter) - would be necessary in order to carry out sacrifices.  

A Temple building would not technically, be necessary.

[8thdaypriest]

Jesus told the woman at the well,

NIV  John 4:21 "Woman," Jesus replied, "believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem."

 

So there is the period of time when the Mount at Jerusalem will NOT have a Temple.  A VERY LONG PERIOD - I might add.

 

The argument concerning animal sacrifice is moot, so long as there is NO TEMPLE. 

The problem will come when a Temple (or at least sacrifice) is restored on the Mount.

Should I go up there to worship the LORD? 

Should I bring an animal for sacrifice? 

 

THAT question will one day soon, be faced by thousands of Hebrew Roots believers in Yeshua as Messiah.

 

My belief is that the Temple they build on that Mount will NOT be of the LORD.

And of course, "If the LORD build not the house, they labor in vain who build." 

I guarantee that Yeshua Messiah will not be declared the cornerstone of THAT Temple, built under the direction of Jewish Rabbis.

The LORD will not protect that Temple.  The prophecies of Daniel make that clear.

When Yeshua returns everything man made will be "burned up" - including that Temple at Jerusalem.

 

I believe Satan is in process of setting up his masterpiece of deception, to get the "very elect" to worship him as Messiah. 

THAT is why this issue troubles me so much. 

It's a TRAP.  

 

I do NOT NEED to visit the Temple in order to approach the LORD !

 

NIV  Hebrews 4:16 Let us then approach God's throne of grace with confidence, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help us in our time of need. (Heb 4:16 NIV)

 

NIV  1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1Jo 1:9 NIV)

 

So - we do NOT need to go up to a Temple on the Mount, or go thru a Levite priest in order to find forgiveness.  I have "access" through Christ. 

 

Ephesians 2:18  "For through Him we both (circumcised and uncircumcised) have access by one Spirit to the Father." 

 

Maybe the sacrificial system will finally become "obsolete" when Christ returns in glory. 

In the meantime, I do NOT NEED to go thru a Levite priest with an animal sacrifice in order to be forgiven of God, or to partake of His spirit. 

[LifeHiscost]

 

Do you think that satan would not plan to cause conflict when God' Temple is rebuilt?  There was contention when God told Zerubabel to rebuild the Temple in the time Ezra.  Warfare is something that the God of hosts (armies) can handle.

  It is a contention point.

No doubt to your conclusion re: God's capacity to handle the circumstances in the order He might choose is correct. OTOH I'm of the opinion God has little or no desire to bring such a crisis on a world He is on the verge of destroying to make room for the new creation anyway. However men might make that effort  claiming to be led of God.

 

17"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former things will not be remembered or come to mind. 18"But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create; For behold, I create Jerusalem for rejoicing And her people for gladness.…Isaiah 65

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves!  

[LifeHiscost]

Maybe the sacrificial system will finally become "obsolete" when Christ returns in glory. 

In the meantime, I do NOT NEED to go thru a Levite priest with an animal sacrifice in order to be forgiven of God, or to partake of His spirit. 

21Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father....John 4, as you so aptly repeated above.

 

God is Love! Jesus saves! 

[LifeHiscost]

 

I cannot but give a hearty amen to your post. However my emotional response is one of deep excitement to something that has been prophecied  for centuries to take place and we are privileged, perhaps to be included in those particularly unique fulfilling events.

 

28"But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."....Luke 21

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Ron Amnsn]

Here are some things that Jesus said.

 

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." (Matt 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)

 

"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” (Matt 28:19-20)
 

I don't generally quote from Ellen White, but I am quoting some passages here to show what is already accepted as truth within the SDA church. Here are some things that Ellen White wrote:

 

"He who proclaimed the law from Sinai, and delivered to Moses the precepts of the ritual law, is the same that spoke the Sermon on the Mount."  {PP 373.2}

 

"The Old and the New Testament are inseparable, for both are the teachings of Christ." {2SP 254.1}

"And the doctrine of those who discard the Old Testament is not unto salvation, because it rejects that which is direct testimony of Christ."  {2SP 254.1}

 

"On the other hand, the strongest reason why Christians fail to influence the Jews to accept the teachings of Christ as the language of divine wisdom, is because, in bringing forth the treasures of his word, they treat with contempt the riches of the Old Testament, which are the earlier teachings of the Son of God, through Moses." {2SP 255.1}

 

"Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." My words are in perfect harmony with the Old Testament Scriptures, and with the law spoken from Sinai. I am not preaching a new doctrine. {5BC 1136.2}

 

"The Saviour said nothing to unsettle faith in the religion and institutions that had been given through Moses; for every ray of divine light that Israel's great leader communicated to his people was received from Christ." {MB 47.1}

 

"The Lord Jesus had given the special directions how to build the tabernacle." {UL 124.2}

 

"Jesus was the angel enshrouded in the pillar of cloud by day and the pillar of fire by night, and he gave special direction that the Hebrews should teach the law of God, given when the foundation of the earth was laid, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy. The same law was proclaimed in grandeur by his own voice from Sinai. He said: "And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: and thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes." {RH, June 17, 1890 par. 9} 

 

     Notice that Ellen White attributes to Jesus the words of Deuteronomy 6:6-8. Those words

     which Jesus commanded that day through Moses included a large portion of  Deuteronomy,

     including instructions to bring offerings.

 

"Jesus Christ, who was the founder of the whole Jewish economy, spoke the ten precepts of God to the people."  {ST, March 12, 1894 par. 3}

 

"Here was one who was the very foundation of the Jewish ceremonies, one who made the law, one who on Mount Sinai proclaimed the law, one who knew every phase and principle of the law. But he was unrecognized and unacknowledged by the leaders in Israel."  {ST, July 23, 1896 par. 5}

 

Okay. I have a question:

Since Jesus taught that his words would not pass away, and that his disciples were to teach all nations everything that he had commanded,

and since Ellen White says that it was Jesus himself that gave Moses the precepts of the ritual Law, and that Jesus taught nothing that would unsettle faith in the religion and institutions that had been given through Moses,

why do SDA's teach that the religious practices (such as sacrifices) that Jesus commanded through Moses should no longer be practiced?

 

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." Hebrews 13:8

 

[8thdaypriest]

Jackson said,

"for you can't have two high priests in two different sanctuaries officiating at the same time. Paul says the law (ceremonial law) was nailed to the cross (Col 2:14)

 

Jackson,

THAT - "two high priests" - is exactly what Messianic and HR teachers say! - that Yeshua cannot be a priest on the earth - ever.

They teach two parallel priesthoods.

 

They quote Hebrews 8:4

"Now if he were on earth, he wouldn't be a cohen (priest) at all, since there already are cohanim offering the gifts required by the Torah." (CJB)

 

That verse was written long AFTER Christ ascended to heaven. 

 

I take that verse to say that WHEN Christ was on the earth, He could not be a priest. 

He was not "made a priest" until He ascended to the "heaven itself" - the "true Tabernacle". 

[8thdaypriest]

Jackson said,

Paul says the law (ceremonial law) was nailed to the cross (Col 2:14).

 

I'm not at all convinced that is what Colossians 2:14 says.

 

WHAT WAS NAILED TO HIS CROSS?        

    Colossians 2:14 “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;” (KJV)

    Colossians 2:14 “. . . having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us.  And He has taken it out of the way, nailing it to His cross.” (NKJV)

    Colossians 2:14  “having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;” (ASV)

    Colossians 2:14 “having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. (NIV)

    Colossians 2:14 “having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” (NAS)

    Colossians 2:14 “erasing the record that stood against us with its legal demands. He set this aside, nailing it to the cross” (NRSV).

        In the church I attended many years ago, they used to teach that God wrote the Ten Commandments by hand (Deut. 4:13), but Moses wrote the “ordinances”.   So we have to keep the Ten Commandments, but everything else is now obsolete.  I think that was a completed misunderstanding of this passage!

 

        I think you can tell from the ASV, NIV, NRSV and NAS versions, that it was the charges, or the debt, or the “bond”, or the record of our transgressions (according to the law) - that was nailed to the cross.      

        We still use the expression today.  He has paid his debt to society, or his debt to the law.  We mean that the person has completed his sentence in prison.  
    
        It was common in the Roman Empire to post a placard over the accused at his execution, which listed the charges.  Paul is referring to this custom.  The charges against Christ were posted over His head - nailed to His cross.  “King of the Jews” it read.  The Sanhedrin tried to get Pilot to change it to “He said king of the Jews” but Pilot refused.  
    
    In the eyes of Heaven, OUR DEBT was posted over His head.  
    It was OUR DEBT which He paid.

 

There are several studies on the Law at my website. 

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

Jackson,

You referred often to a "new covenant".  What you may not realize, is that HR and Messianic teachers teach only a "renewed covenant".  They say it is NOT, or will not, be "NEW".  

The Hebrew for "new" and for "renewed" is the same.  So we can't really tell whether it is new or renewed.

 

Heb. 8:13 (NKJ) "In that He says, ‘A new covenant,’ He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.”

 

Hebrews 8:13 (CJB) By using the term, "new," he has made the first covenant "old"; and something being made old, something in the process of aging, is on its way to vanishing altogether.

 

Even the CJB translates the word as "new", and agrees that it is "on its way to vanishing".  The question is:  WHEN will it vanish?

 

According to Ezekiel 36:24-27, and Jeremiah 31, (the same quoted in Hebrews)

The New Covenant is not made with united Judah/Israel UNTIL after they are returned to the land promised to Abraham.  As of right now, that "new covenant" is only promised. 

It is something we look forward to.    We are currently in a transition process BETWEEN the two covenants.  One is growing old, and the other is not yet realized fully. 

 

IMO

I contend that it must be a "new" covenant BECAUSE,

the Sinai Covenant was a marriage covenant.  

 

Jeremiah 3:14 “Return, O backsliding children,’ says the LORD; ‘for I am married to you.”

    Jeremiah 2:1-3 “Go and cry in the hearing of Jerusalem, saying,`Thus says the LORD: I remember you, the kindness of your youth, the love of your betrothal, when you went after Me in the wilderness . . .”

    Jeremiah 31:32 “‘the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.’”

Ezekiel 16:32  “You are an adulterous wife, who takes strangers instead of her husband.”

 

The use of marriage language is NOT JUST METAPHOR.   In the eyes of GOD, this was the legal basis of the Sinai Covenant! 

Both Israel and Judah broke that marriage covenant.

The LORD divorced Israel (the 10 tribes).

And finally the "betrothed husband" DIED.

 

When the husband dies, the wife is free from the law concerning her "husband".  That is the whole point that Paul is making:

 

    Romans 7:1  “Or do you not know, brethren (for I am speaking to those who know the law), that the law has jurisdiction over a person as long as he lives?
    2 For the married woman is bound by law to her husband while he is living; but if her husband dies, she is released from the law concerning the husband.
    3 So then if, while her husband is living, she is joined to another man, she shall be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from the law, so that she is not an adulteress, though she is joined to another man.
    4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead” (NAS).

 

We are CURRENTLY betrothed to Christ.  The marriage has NOT YET been consummated (His spirit within us perfectly.) 

 

    2 Corinthians 11:2 [Paul] “For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.”

    Ephesians 5:23  “For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.”

 

Remember: Betrothal was a legally binding covenant.  Adultery within that period was punishable by death.

 

So I contend there is a new marriage covenant. 

Just what law is contained therein? 

Nine of the Ten C's are repeated in the First Century Writings.

The Sabbath is described as something that redeemed Israel will celebrate with travel to Jerusalem and worship in the New Earth. (Isa. 66)

 

It seems logical that the Groom would want the same behavior from His new "bride" that He wanted from His first one. 

 

The sacrifices were the REMEDY for transgression of the Covenant (for Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Israel).

But when the New Covenant is consummated, the "bride" will not transgress any longer. 

So at least "sin offerings" would be "obsolete". 

 

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[8thdaypriest]

At the END of 70 weeks, several thing would be accomplished FOR "your people" and "your city"

 

"the transgression" would be "finished" - WHAT TRANSGRESSION IS THAT ? 

The killing of Christ?  Yes - could be. 

The entire sacrificial typology pointed forward to THAT "transgression". 

But it could refer to the final "transgression" of Daniel's people, and the close of probation for them.

Certainly - worshiping Satan himself, in a rebuilt Temple on the Mount would qualify as the "final straw".

WHEN did probation END for Israelites?  Answer:  On Yom Kippur !!   NOT ON PASSOVER !!!

So the 70 weeks may END at the final Day of Atonement.

 

"reconciliation for iniquity" would be made - for Daniel's people.

Was THAT accomplished by the death of Messiah?  Yes!  (Heb 9:15).  But I would point out that sins were not wiped out until the Day of Atonement. 

Therefore, this final "reconciliation" may happen at the FINAL Day of Atonement, when Christ will enter the FINAL judgment of Daniel 7:9-14.

This - once again - at the END of the 70 weeks.  [No - I do NOT believe it began in 1844!!!]

 

"everlasting righteousness" would be brought in for Daniel's people (Israel)

When exactly will our "everlasting righteousness" with GOD be "brought in".

Is it not WHEN the record of our sins is full and finally wiped out of the records of heaven and put upon the head of Satan (the original cause)? 

And WHEN does THAT happen??   At the final Day of Atonement. 

So once again - I would put that on the very day that Christ returns for us. 

 

"vision and prophecy" would be sealed up  OR "setting the seal on vision and prophet" (CJB)

 

God's seal on a prophet would be the fulfillment of his prophecy.  So perhaps this "setting the seal" might refer to the fulfillment of THIS prophecy given to Daniel.

And that fulfillment will come at the END of the 70 weeks.  

 

In Daniel 8:26 and 9:24, and Rev. 10:4, the words "seal up" meant to "shut", to deny access to, or understanding of. 

Could it be that WHEN "vision and prophecy" are sealed up, that NO FURTHER vision or prophecy will be forthcoming AFTER the 70 weeks END? 

 

We know that the "two witnesses" will prophesy during the last 42 months of persecution (Rev. 11:6).  But I know of no prophesy that will be uttered AFTER the SC.

 1 Corinthians 13:8 "But where there are prophecies, they will cease"; (NIV)  1 Corinthians 13:10  "but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears." (NIV)

 

The "Most Holy" would be anointed.

 

This could refer to the Most Holy Place, rather than the anointing of Christ at His baptism.    That is how the CJB translation puts it.  I think that's how Daniel would have understood it.

Priests, Kings, and Lepers were also anointed, but they were not "Most Holy".

Christ was anointed at His consecration to His High Priestly ministry.  He was anointed with the Spirit, which He then passed to His followers on the earth.

But that would mean that the 70 weeks ended in 33AD (at Pentecost).

 

According to Hebrews 9:21, Moses only "sprinkled with blood" the "tent" and the "vessels" used in service of the Tabernacle.  He did not specifically sprinkle the "most holy place" at the inauguration of the Tabernacle.    More certainly the MHP was "anointed" with blood by the High Priest on the Day of Atonement.  So these words COULD refer to the anointing of the MHP with the blood of Christ on the FINAL DAY OF ATONEMENT. 

 

The 70 weeks COULD end with the FINAL Day of Atonement. 

 

Here is the CJB:

Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and for your holy city for putting an end to the transgression, for making an end of sin, for forgiving iniquity, for bringing in everlasting justice, for setting the seal on vision and prophet, and for anointing the Especially Holy Place. (Dan 9:24 CJB)

 

Respectfully,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[LifeHiscost]

    In the eyes of Heaven, OUR DEBT was posted over His head.  

    It was OUR DEBT which He paid.

 

There are several studies on the Law at my website. 

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

And what was that debt or that which we owed for our sin, that Jesus paid?

 

20"The person who sins will die....Ezek

 

4Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 5And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin....1 John 3

 

  20For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord....Romans 6

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

…

[8thdaypriest]

This verse speaks loudly to me:

 

CJB  Hebrews 7:18 Thus, on the one hand, the earlier rule is set aside because of its weakness and inefficacy

KJV  Hebrews 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

NIV  Hebrews 7:18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless

NKJ  Hebrews 7:18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness,

NRS  Hebrews 7:18 There is, on the one hand, the abrogation of an earlier commandment because it was weak and ineffectual

 

And WHAT WAS THAT "earlier", "former" commandment (rule, regulation) that was abrogated (set aside, annulled)? 

The author of Hebrews spends a lot of space explaining that it was the system of animal sacrifice, thru the Levite priests. 

 

This passage - to me - does say that the sacrifices were ended, when Christ became High Priest.

 

NKJ  Hebrews 7:19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God. (Heb 7:19 NKJ)