An end to sacrifices

[8thdaypriest]

The redeemed Israel of God (which includes all believers with penitent hearts) will become "priests of God and of Christ" (Rev. 20:6).  Right?

They will "reign with Him a thousand years".  Right? 

 

So - WHAT NEED OF PRIESTS after the SC ??   Priests were teachers of the law, mediators of disputes, courts of last resort, as well as the makers of atonement. 

[8thdaypriest]

Ezekiel is not the only prophet who wrote of a restored "House of the LORD" on "the Mountain of the LORD". 

 

Ezekiel 37:15-27  The LORD will gather the children of Israel.  Judah and Israel will be joined into one kingdom - never to be separated again, with one King - from the line of David (v.24). The Lord will then make an everlasting covenant of peace with those He has gathered (v.26).  “My tabernacle also shall be with them; . . . The nations also will know that I, the LORD, sanctify Israel, WHEN My sanctuary is in their midst forevermore.”

 

Isaiah 2:1-4 “And it shall come to pass in the latter days, that the mountain of Jehovah's house shall be established on the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many peoples shall go and say, ‘Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths:’ for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of Jehovah from Jerusalem. And he will judge between the nations, and will decide concerning many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning-hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.” (ASV)

 

    Micah 4:1-2 “Now it shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established on the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And peoples shall flow to it.   Many nations shall come and say, ‘Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; He will teach us His ways, And we shall walk in His paths.’ For out of Zion the law shall go forth, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.”   

 

Amos 9:11-12 “‘On that day I will raise up The tabernacle of David, which has fallen down, And repair its damages; I will raise up its ruins, And rebuild it as in the days of old; That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’ Says the LORD who does this thing.”

 

The LORD says this WILL come to pass.

We have to place these prophecies somewhere. 

We can't just say this is "what might have happened IF Israel had humbled her heart in repentance". 

 

I place the fulfillment of these prophecies at the 8th millennium. 

I believe that redeemed Israel (which will include all of the redeemed people of God, not simply DNA descendants of Jacob)

WILL

1.  humble her heart in repentance

2.  be "returned to the land"

3.  be "a kingdom of priests and a holy nation" under Jesus the Christ

4.  reign over "the nations" ("the rest of the dead" who will be resurrected after 1000 years)

 

There WILL be a "House of the LORD".

I believe it was shown to Ezekiel in a vision as a "Temple".

Now - whether that will be a large building - that is also open to question. 

But the prophecy does specify a place - Jerusalem. 

The prophecy does describe people from "the nations" (NOT of Israel) going "up" to this place to learn the ways of the LORD.

 

I believe that Christ (the sacrifice) and Christ (the priest) and Christ (the prince) was shown to Ezekiel in the symbols of the Temple,

(just as John was told things to come, and was shown things using Tabernacle symbolism). 

 

Whether animals will actually be killed at this future Temple - that is open to question.

 

When John "saw" a "lamb as it had been slain", does anyone BELIEVE that a dead animal was actually laying on the gold pavement before the throne of God in heaven?

NO! 

The Lamb symbolized Christ. 

 

Respectfully,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[LifeHiscost]

Whether animals will actually be killed at this future Temple - that is open to question.

 

When John "saw" a "lamb as it had been slain", does anyone BELIEVE that a dead animal was actually laying on the gold pavement before the throne of God in heaven?

NO! 

The Lamb symbolized Christ. 

 

Respectfully,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

The question emboldened above is clearly answered without deviation in the Word.

 

…25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death....1 Cor 15

 

…3And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away." 5And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."…Revelation 21

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[8thdaypriest]

No we could and should not understand Dan 9:27 in that light because Daniel. says the sacrifices ended in the middle of the 70th week which coincides with the death of Christ.

Rachel, sacrifices and oblations cease when they are no longer relevant in God's eyes, and that is not dependent on whether the temple is destroyed or not.

 

Jackson,

These words by the author of Hebrews seem to agree with your words "when they are no longer relevant".

 

Hebrews 9:8  "By this arrangement, the Ruach HaKodesh [Holy Spirit] showed that so long as the first Tent had standing, the way into the Holiest Place was still closed. (CJB)

 

The Temple structure in Jerusalem at that time, with its priesthood and its sacrifices, no longer "had standing" with God, AFTER Jesus entered "the Holiest Place" - which would be the presence of God (that IS the Holiest place of all). 

 

This verse came to mind last evening.  What I've been searching for is the LEGAL basis for declaring the system of animal sacrifice "obsolete". 

 

Obviously no man can declare something obsolete, that God has established. 

But God Himself CAN. 

 

Where exactly - in the Scriptures - has the LORD declared the sacrifices "obsolete" ?

[8thdaypriest]

Discussions at this forum have expanded my thinking, and have led me to search out threads from Scripture on several important topics.

 

I was looking this morning, at the Scriptures which speak of "the place" where the LORD would visibly manifest to His people. 

He did command that they come to a "place" - a specific location.

And it appears from the prophecies that there will AGAIN - future - be a "place" where "all flesh" will come to worship Him.

 

Isaiah 66:23 “And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, And from one     Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD.”

    Where?  To what place, will all flesh “come” to worship before the LORD?  The passage implies movement from their usual intervening place of residence to a designated place of worship.  

Isaiah 56:7   “Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

    Them - “even them” - in this passage, refers to “the sons of the foreigner”.  These will be included with “everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath and holds fast My covenant”.  

I realize the passage speaks of "burnt offerings and sacrifices" but those could symbolize Christ. 

To declare the place literal, but the offerings symbolic - it's possible - but just this prophecy from Isaiah does not allow it. 

   So --  Where is His “holy mountain” located?  

Will THIS be the location of future worship in the eternal Kingdom? 

 

There will be "no Temple" in the New Jerusalem, which will cover the entire land area promised to Abraham, not just the one Mountain. 

Yet the prophecy of Ezekiel definitely describes a Temple located on the Mount at Jerusalem.

 

I think it possible that Ezekiel's Temple represents a temporary condition - a temporary House - to which people from "the nations" will come to "learn the ways of the LORD".

When the New Jerusalem descends [345 miles on each side, and 345 miles high] it will COVER UP Ezekiel's Temple, just as Solomon's Temple incorporated the wilderness tabernacle items in its MHP. 

 

I personally see the New Jerusalem as the gateway [think Jacob's ladder] between earth and heaven.  It will be what the builders of the Tower of Babel wanted, but failed to build.

THE PLACE - JERUSALEM

Deuteronomy 12:5 “But you shall seek the place where the LORD your God chooses, out of all your tribes, to put His name for His dwelling place; and there you shall go.”

Deuteronomy 16:2 “Therefore you shall sacrifice the Passover to the LORD your God, from the flock and the herd, in the place where the LORD chooses to put His name.”

Deuteronomy 16:16 “Three times a year all your males shall appear before the LORD your God in the place which He chooses: at the Feast of Unleavened Bread, at the Feast of Weeks, and at the Feast of Tabernacles; and they shall not appear before the LORD empty-handed.”

2 Chronicles 6:6 “‘Yet I have chosen Jerusalem, that My name may be there; and I have chosen David to be over My people Israel.’”


GLORY DEPARTS THE TEMPLE - AND THEN RETURNS

Ezekiel 10:4  “Then the glory of the LORD went up from the cherub, and paused over the threshold of the temple; and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was full of the brightness of the LORD'S glory.”

Ezekiel 10:18  “Then the glory of the LORD departed from the threshold of the temple and stood over the cherubim.”

Ezekiel 11:23 “And the glory of the LORD went up from the midst of the city and stood on the mountain, which is on the east side of the city.”

    The glory departs the Temple and then the City.  HE lingers for a moment on the Mount of Olives, before moving East following the people to Babylon.

Ezekiel 11:16  “Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: ‘Although I have cast them far off among the Gentiles, and although I have scattered them among the countries, yet I shall be a little sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone.’”

 

THE GLORY RETURNS - from "the East"

Ezekiel 43:1 “Afterward he brought me to the gate, the gate that faces toward the east. 2 And behold,  the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east. . . . 4 And the glory of the LORD came into the temple by way of the gate which faces toward the east. 5 The Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the LORD filled the temple. 6 Then I heard Him speaking to me from the temple, while a man stood beside me. 7 And He said to me, "Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever.”  

 

This "return" follows AFTER a resurrection of the whole house of Israel, and their return to "the land".  Prophetically it looks like this takes place AFTER the Second Coming great resurrection.  I would place it AFTER the redeemed of Israel return to the earth FOLLOWING the 7th millennium. 

 

So - if we are correct - that the killing/bleeding/and burning of animals has been declared "obsolete" by the LORD, and has been replaced by the sacrificial death of Messiah, then the vision of Ezekiel is mixing a literal "place" with symbolic imagery representing the death of Messiah, and representing a future priesthood and people who will be lifting up THAT sacrifice to God. 

 

I cannot just set the visions of Ezekiel aside as "what might have happened".   The "new covenant" is included in that vision. 

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Ephesians 2:14 definitely says that the LORD has "abolished" a "law contained in ordinances".  

 

So THIS is one instance where the LORD has "abolished" a law that He commanded.  Very significant I think!

 

Just what that law covers, is open to debate.

Some say it covers everything within the Sinai Covenant, including the 10 Commandments.

Some say it covers all of the prophetic (ceremonial) law.

Some say it covers only the commands that Israelites avoid social or business interaction with the uncircumcised.  

 

Christ has broken down the diving wall.  This is a reference to the wall which shut out any uncircumcised person from the Temple Court where sacrifice was offered. 

 

Ephesians 2:11 "Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh-- who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands-- 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

 

13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, . . . 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father. 19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,"

 

Both circumcised and uncircumcised "have access" to the Father - thru Christ. 

Both circumcised and uncircumcised will inherit the land promised to Abraham - according to Galatians 3-4.

 

OK -

When James told Paul to go up to the Temple to offer purification sacrifice, and to pay for those sacrifices for 4 other men,

James specifically excluded the Gentiles from any requirement concerning the Temple or sacrifices:

 

"But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled and from sexual immorality" (Acts 21:25). 

 

SO -

Those not of Hebrew descent, and uncircumcised, do NOT need to travel up to the Temple to offer sacrifices - period.

 

Both Jew and Gentile believer have access to God the Father, thru Christ. 

NO SACRIFICES NEEDED! 

[8thdaypriest]

You know - it occurred to me that during the entire history of the Temple, there WAS a literal "place" with a symbolic representation. 

The two - literal place/symbolic prophecy - were combined. 

So why couldn't the same elements be combined in a vision given to Ezekiel. 

[8thdaypriest]

Jackson,

Jesus gave the command to "go and teach all nations" 10 days before the Pentecost which followed His death and resurrection.  

Why would we think that the gospel "went to the Gentiles" AFTER 3.5 more years ?

It doesn't seem to FIT.

[JoeMo]

Jackson asks:

"Is it not plain from the text in Dan 9:27 and the 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24-26 that the week being spoken of in Dan 9:27 is the 70th week and that 70th week is from 27- 34 AD?"

It is not plain to me.  After looking at this passage in 20 different English translations, and comparing Daniel chapter 9 to the actual ministry of Christ, I think the "annointed one" to whom Daniel is referring is the Antichrist or the beast; not Jesus.

[8thdaypriest]

The LORD predicted the END of the Temple (House) of Solomon. 

 

2 Chronicles 7:19-20 “This House which I have consecrated for My name, I will cast out of My sight, and will make it a proverb and a byword among all peoples.”

 

If not predicting the END of the sacrificial system for all time, at least a significant period of time is predicted, during which "all peoples" would know of its destruction and disuse. 

Almost 2000 years have passed since the Temple was destroyed by Titus.

 

The prophet Haggai prophesies the glory of the rebuilt Temple will be "greater".   He encouraged the re-builders after the return from Babylon.

 

Haggai 2:7 "`and I will shake all nations, and they shall come to the Desire of All Nations, and I will fill this temple with glory,' says the LORD of hosts. 8 `The silver is Mine, and the gold is Mine,' says the LORD of hosts. 9 `The glory of this latter temple shall be greater than the former,' says the LORD of hosts.`And in this place I will give peace,' says the LORD of hosts."

 

Messiah came to the "latter temple" and brought "glory" (honor) to that House (which was later destroyed by Titus). 

 

It appears this prophecy may have more than one fulfillment. 

It pointed to Messiah's appearance in the Temple of the re-builders - yes.

But it may also point to Ezekiel's Temple - which (I believe) will be built during the 8th millennium.

The glory - the true shining glory - WILL come into THAT House, just as Ezekiel saw in vision.

 

The "glory" was NOT manifest when the House built under Zerrubbabel was consecrated.  

 

"all nations" did not then, and have not since, come to Christ (the Desire of All Nations)

 

There has been no "peace" - as yet - in Jerusalem, so we might look to a yet future House, one built AFTER a return to "the land", wherein the LORD will manifest "glory" and also "give peace". 

 

Even though the glory was NOT manifest in the Temple of the return, and the Ark remained lost to them,

we must assume that the LORD granted forgiveness, and atonement to sincere individuals when they brought sin-offerings.

[8thdaypriest]

Jackson,

I seem to remember an EGW statement that "old Jerusalem" would never be rebuilt or restored, or something to that effect. 

I wonder what it would do to folks who take her word as infallible if another Temple is built on the Mount at Jerusalem before the return of Christ.

I know that you do NOT believe that will happen.  I DO. 

I believe Satan will orchestrate a great deception. 

He cannot counterfeit the actual glorious return, but He can appear in a rebuilt Temple, claiming to be Messiah come.

 

And - of course - I believe that AFTER the return of Christ, and FOLLOWING the desolation of the 7th millennium, HIS throne WILL BE set up on that place.

 

While I believe that the law commanding the sacrifice of animals is now "annulled", I do NOT believe that the LORD has completely "cut off" the "House of Israel".

 

He never will !

 

Sinners in Zion have been and will yet be "cut off" from her, yet Zion will remain.

We are dispersed among the nations just now.

But one day we WILL be "returned to the land".

 

The LORD's throne will one day be set on the very spot occupied by the Most Holy Place.  The very spot where the ARK was placed.  

 

1 Kings 9:3 [LORD speaking to Solomon after the dedication of the Temple.]  And the LORD said to him: "I have heard your prayer and your supplication that you have made before Me; I have consecrated this house which you have built to put My name there forever, and My eyes and My heart will be there perpetually.

 

I personally believe that the ARK is hidden in a cave under the Mount.  So the LORD's eyes and heart are difinitely watching there.

 

 

BETWEEN THE CHERUBIM

 

Psalm 2 looks future - to Christ's enthronement.  He is God's "King".

 

Psalm 2:6 “Yet I have set My King On My holy hill of Zion.” (NKJ)

    The coming “greater” One will merge God’s throne with His own, for He will be Immanuel, Mighty God.

Psalm 24:3 Who may ascend into the hill of the LORD? Or who may stand in His holy place? - to RULE?   That's the question.

Psalm 24:7 Lift up your heads, O you gates! And be lifted up, you everlasting doors! And the King of glory shall come in.

Psalm 24:10 Who is this King of glory? The LORD of hosts, He is the King of glory. Selah

    The “King of Gory” will ascend the hill of the LORD and stand in His Holy place.

 

He will be a priest AND a King.

 

Zechariah 6:13 “Yes, He shall build the temple of the LORD. He shall bear the glory, And shall sit and rule on His throne; So He shall be a priest on His throne, And the counsel of peace shall be between them both.”

 

This verse has a real Temple, and a real "throne".  Where do you THINK it will sit ???

 

The Son of David will bring “the Law” to Jerusalem - just as David brought the Ark with dancing. 

 

We CANNOT discount these prophecies.  We can't set them aside and say that Jerusalem has nothing to do with Christians today.

The LORD chose that place.  He has never un-chosen it. 

Just as He has never removed the sacredness of the Sabbath. 

 

A Temple of Satan sits presently on the LORD's holy ground.

Just as Satan has dominion of earth just now.  But it belongs to the LORD.

The LORD will take back His earth, and He will take back His place - His hallowed ground - Jerusalem and the Mount.

 

The crusades were misguided.  The LORD Himself must take back His ground.  Not men!

Present day Israel is fighting their way into the promised land. 

But the LORD promised to go before them, to drive out the Canaanites. 

They still have not listened.

[8thdaypriest]

I am searching for material to prove from Scripture, that the sacrifice of animals has been declared "obsolete" by the LORD.

 

We are going off topic, getting into the 70 weeks. 

There must be other proofs besides Daniel 9:27. 

[8thdaypriest]

Because the animal sacrifices are "obsolete", and Satan currently has control of the Temple Mount, does NOT mean that I should not remember (commemorate) the Feasts of the LORD in their seasons. 

 

I was 40 years old, visiting a Messianic Synagog when I first realized that the "last supper" was a Passover Seder.  I just thought it was their "last" meal together.  Most Christians today still do not realize that when Jesus said "I will not eat of it again, until I eat it new with you in my Father's kingdom", that He was speaking of the Passover.

 

We will eat the Passover - new - with Him - in His Father's kingdom.  (I do not believe we will eat it with roasted lamb.)

 

And when He said, "As often as you eat THIS BREAD", He was speaking of the unleavened Passover bread, NOT just bread.

He was not instituting a new ceremony called "Communion" or the "Lord's Supper". 

He was saying, WHEN you eat the Passover - remember me.  Passover Bread represents my body.  Passover wine represents my blood. 

My blood has sealed a covenant between Me and My Father.  When you partake of it - you enter into THAT covenant. 

 

Passover is very VERY significant.  It should NOT be dismissed!!

[Ron Amnsn]

So how do Hebrew Roots believers offer up Sacrifices without a Temple or a Levitical Priesthood without altering the Scriptural Commands of how these offerings are to be made? 

 

The same as Daniel did during the Babylonian captivity.  They don't.

 

And to be clear-- many Hebrew Roots believers think the animal sacrifices are obsolete, according to the traditions they were taught.

[JoeMo]

Rachel says:

"I am searching for material to prove from Scripture, that the sacrifice of animals has been declared "obsolete" by the LORD."

 

Hebrews 8 works for me - especially the last part which explicitly states that the Old Covenant is "obsolete".

[8thdaypriest]

IMPORTANT ITEMS MISSING FROM EZEKIEL’S TEMPLE

Ezekiel goes into great detail, describing the paneling of the interior of the Temple, and the “doorway” between the HP and MHP.  It is not reasonable to believe that he simply left out the Alter of Incense, the Menorah, and the Table of Shewbread.  Something is VERY DIFFERENT about this Temple shown to Ezekiel.  There is virtually NOTHING in the Holy Place. This Temple could only be AFTER Messiah has come. 

ITEMS MISSING
1.  The wall of partition which shut out the uncircumcised
2.  The court of women
3.  The Laver in the Courtyard
4.  The Lampstand inside the Temple
5.  The Table of Shewbread
6.  The Alter of Incense
7.  The Veil which separated HP and MHP
8.  The Ark

Also the shape and approach to the Alter of Sacrifice were different.
No steps were allowed for the approach to the Alter in the Tabernacle and Temple, but in Ezekiel’s Temple, the approach is by “steps”.  

The Alter of Sacrifice is still there, and animal sacrifices are described.  
Many believe there will actually be animal sacrifice as a memorial of Christ’s death.  
Personally - I think that worshipers will go up to partake of Christ.  

I think it may be possible that a heavenly type of video will transport worshipers back to Calvary.  They will witness the death of Christ.  It will be shown over the place where the Alter of Sacrifice is located.  Now that's just my thought.

The “throne of the LORD” will be in the Most Holy Place.  

Jerusalem will be a literal place.  And God's throne will be there.

Jeremiah 3:16 "Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days," says the LORD, "that they will say no more,`The ark of the covenant of the LORD.' It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore. 17 "At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts. (NKJ)

[8thdaypriest]

A PRIEST FOREVER

 

   When did our Messiah become our High Priest?  When He returns as King of Kings and LORD of Lords,  will He remain a priest?  

Psalm 110:4 “The LORD has sworn and will not relent, ‘You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.’”

    This verse from Psalms is quoted four times in the Book of Hebrews (Hebrews 5:6, 6:20, 7:17, 7:21).   It is repeated four times.   This understanding is very important!


WHEN DID HE BECOME OUR HIGH PRIEST?

Hebrews 6:19-20  “This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.”

        Before He came as the Lamb, He was “Mighty God” to Israel.  He led them thru the wilderness.  He appeared to Moses.  He appeared to Joshua.  Ezekiel saw His throne.  He represented God His Father to Israel.  He was the one Mediator.  

        When He came as the Lamb, He could not - at the same time - be the priest.  After He ascended to Heaven, 10 days passed before the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the waiting disciples.  We know that the Son of God was welcomed in Heaven with great celebration.  Then He would enter upon the 7 days required for consecration to the priesthood.  The disciples understood this period (Exo 29:35).   

        I believe that Jesus Christ became our High Priest on the first Pentecost which followed His death.  Before His death, Christ had no blood to present within the  “true Tabernacle”.   The Greek suggests that He entered Heaven to become our High Priest, which would mean that before He entered there, He was not yet a priest. 


IF HE WERE ON THE EARTH

Hebrews 8:4 “For if He were on earth, He would not be a priest, since there are priests who offer the gifts according to the law;”

    HR and Messianic teachers say that only descendants of Aaron can serve as priests on the earth.  They teach a parallel priesthood.  After His ascension, Christ served as High Priest in heaven, while Levite priests continued to serve at the Temple in Jerusalem.  The earthly priesthood continued to represent what was happening in Heaven. 

 

They believe that the priests in Messiah’s coming Kingdom Temple will be Aaronic priests descended from Zadok (the one priestly line that was faithful to David during the rebellion of Absolom).   They site the priests serving in Ezekiel’s Temple vision.  And they quote Zechariah 6:13 from the CJB version. They believe that Messiah will be the King forever, but will not be the High Priest on earth.  He can be a priest forever only within the heavenly realm.  

Zechariah 6:13 “Yes, he will rebuild the temple of ADONAI;(fulfilling the promise to David that His Son would build the Temple)

and he will take up royal splendor, sitting and ruling from his throne. There will be a cohen before his throne; and they will accept each other's advice in complete harmony.” 

(Complete Jewish Bible)

 

You can see how they place two men - the King AND a priest - in Ezekiel's Temple.


PRIEST AND KING FOREVER - ON THE EARTH

    Other translations render Zechariah 6:13 differently.  In those translations, Messiah is BOTH King and Priest.  There will be peace between His priestly ministry and His kingly rule.  

    If Messiah comes to earth, and He was made “a priest forever”, then is it not logical that He will remain a priest when He comes to earth.  This is the reason why I believe that the sacrifice, and the priest, and the prince in Ezekiel’s vision (all three) represent Messiah.    

Zechariah 6:13 “Yes, He shall build the temple of the LORD. He shall bear the glory, And shall sit and rule on His throne; So He shall be a priest on His throne, And the counsel of peace shall be between them both.”
 

Respectfully,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[JoeMo]

Jackson says:

"I would be curious though as to whom you think this antichrist/beast was that was anointed as the most holy, confirmed the covenant for 7 literal days, but was cut off after 3 1/2 literal days, made an end of sins, made reconciliation for iniquity, brought in everlasting righteousness, caused sacrifices and oblations to cease and was called Messiah the Prince. It was be interesting, too, if you could give a date for this Antichrist's appearing."

 

First, I never said thatI believe that the 70th week has started yet. Second, scripture makes it clear that these are 70 weeks of years (490 years); so the last week would be 7 years.  I hvae no idea who "an annointed one would be" - that has not been revealed yet; as the event is yet in the future.  I am tempted to equate this "annointed one" to the rider of the white horse in Revelation 6.  The rider of the horse in the 1st seal could not be Christ - Christ shows up in the 6th seal.

 

Daniel talks about "for half of the week he shall cause sacrifice and offering to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”  This half week is 3 1/2 years - 1260 days - a time times and half a time.  Sound familiar?  This period is the reign of the antichrist - the Great Tribulation.

 

It's OK if you disagree with me (or if I disagree with you) - you might be right!  That being said, I have a lot of company that thinks like I do; they're are just not privvy to the inside info that we SDA's think we have.  The way world events are unfolding, we may not have much time to wait and see who's right.  I don't want to put on blinders and only consider a single interpretation of scripture as the only correct one.  I'd rather keep my eyes open for all plausible end-time scenarios.  That way I won't miss anything on the outside chance that EGW misinterpreted things.  I'm more concerned with being in the Kingdom than being in the right.

[8thdaypriest]

I found the EGW statement concerning old Jerusalem.

 

 I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things
now, in the gathering time, to keep them from throwing their whole interest into the present work of the Lord, and to cause them to neglect the necessary preparation for the day of the Lord.
                                                                      A Sketch of the Christian Experience and Views of Ellen G. White, pg.62
 

[Ron Amnsn]

Hebrews 8 works for me - especially the last part which explicitly states that the Old Covenant is "obsolete".

 

Joe, have you checked what that verse says in the Greek.  Your Bible translators believed the Old Covenant was obsolete, so they translated a verse to say so.  But Hebrews 8:13 in the Greek doesn't even contain the word "covenant".  And the literal meaning of the word translated "obsolete" is "be made old".  That same word is used in Heb 1:11 (from Isaiah. 51:6) speaking of the foundations of the earth, which are still essential today. 

 

Hebrews 8:13 was written decades after the resurrection of Jesus, yet "the first" wasn't "obsolete" at that time-- rather it was "becoming obsolete" and was "ready to disappear" but hadn't disappeared yet.  Those who teach that Jesus made the "old Covenant" obsolete have a serious problem actually pinning down the point in time that it happened.  Did it happen at the death of Jesus, or at some time after Hebrews 8:13 was written?

 

You should try looking for an interpretation of Hebrews 8:13 that agrees with God's Word in the Old Testament (which was endorsed by both Jesus and Paul) rather than accepting the traditions of men which set aside the Word of God.

 

Also, Revelation 11:19 tells us that at that time "the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple".  Tell us, which covenant was that the ark of?  Is the covenant protected in that ark obsolete?

[Ron Amnsn]

If Daniel says the sacrifice and oblation cease in the midst of the 70th week, then that is 31 AD,,40 years before Titus and the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD. So it must be the Messiah and not the destruction of the temple that causes the sacrifices to cease.

 

Jackson, your line of logic might work for people who already believe that Jesus is the Messiah of Israel.  But a religious Jew would be quick to point out the circular reasoning in your statements. The prophecy says that someone will cause the sacrifices to cease.  You believe that Jesus is the Messiah and that it is the Messiah that causes the sacrifices to cease, so you say that the sacrifices ceased in God's eyes when Jesus died, even though they didn't actually cease in the Temple, and even though God didn't actually say that the sacrifices ceased in His eyes.  So you're defining what it means for a "sacrifice to cease" by who you have defined as the Messiah.  The problem is that the city and the tabernacle weren't destroyed while Jesus was on earth, and the sacrifices didn't come to an end either.  The followers of Jesus continued to worship at the Temple daily -- the only place on earth where the animal sacrifices were being offered.  And the followers of Jesus participated in those sacrifices often enough that they suggested Paul take some of the local men with him when he went to offer sacrifices at the Temple.  Obviously, they didn't recognize the death of Jesus as the fulfillment of the "cause the sacrifices to cease" prophecy of Daniel 9:27.  If the local people didn't recognize the fulfillment of prophecy that you are proposing, then it wasn't fulfilled the way that prophecies are fulfilled in Scripture.  God didn't arrange secret fulfillments to prophecies in the Bible.

 

You have also assumed that the ceasing of the sacrifices is a good thing -- something that Messiah would do.  But a religious Jew (and Daniel) would view the ceasing of the sacrifices as a bad thing.  It was bad thing when Israel let the Temple services cease during the reign of wicked kings.  It was a bad thing when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Solomon's Temple and caused the sacrifices to cease.  Why would it suddenly become a good thing for the sacrifices to cease in Daniel 9:27?  The Old Testament Scriptures say only good things about the system of worship that God gave to Israel.

 

God promised the Levitical priests that part of the animal sacrifices would be their inheritance in lieu of tribal lands.  If God intended to cease those sacrifices when Messiah came, then the coming of Messiah would be bad news for all the tribe of Levi because they would lose their inheritance.  God also instructed that the sacrifices should be offered "throughout your generations".  Did God intend to cut off the generations of the Israelites when Messiah came?  No.  The Israelites are still producing new generations today.  God could have instructed that the sacrifices be offered until Messiah comes, but He didn't. So the only instruction we have regarding the duration of the animal sacrifices is to keep doing it until there are no more generations of Israelites.  Of course if God wants to, God could tell the Levites to stop offering animal sacrifices, just like God told Abraham to stop offering Isaac.  We know from the story of Abraham what to expect when God wants a sacrifice to cease.  God didn't just split the knife in Abraham's hand, or put a ram in the bushes.  God actually had the angel speak very clearly to Abraham, call him by name, and tell him clearly to not harm the boy.

 

Because you learned the traditions of men before you learned to love the Old Testament Scriptures, you have no problem with the cessation of the daily sacrifices.  In fact you probably think people are better off without the daily sacrifices.  But Daniel and today's Jews learned to love God's Word contained in the Old Testament before they heard people spouting non-Scriptural and non-historical theories and traditions about how Messiah supposedly put a stop to sacrifices.  So they aren't going to accept it, and they shouldn't.  And neither should we.  If Paul had been teaching what you're teaching when he arrived at Berea, the noble Bereans would have searched the Old Testament Scriptures daily and found that what you are teaching didn't pass the test of truth.  If it wouldn't pass the test back then, it won't pass the test now.

[LifeHiscost]

In fact you probably think people are better off without the daily sacrifices.

All of the sacrifices of the old testament were meant to point forward to the Sacrifice to come, ie: Jesus. Once His sacrifice had been made, the purpose of the earthly sacrifices no longer existed.

 

…26"Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. 27"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.".....Daniel 9

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves!

[JoeMo]

Ron Amnsn asks:

"Also, Revelation 11:19 tells us that at that time "the temple of God which is in heaven was opened; and the ark of His covenant appeared in His temple". Tell us, which covenant was that the ark of? Is the covenant protected in that ark obsolete?"

 

I would not say that the covenant protected in the ark is obselete; however, I will note one thing.  The Law of the OT Covenant was insile the ark - where no one could see it.  No one (to my knowledge) was qualified to open the ark.  The Law was covered by the mercy seat; which was visible (at least to the high priest.  Could this be a type for the new covenant?  It seems that even in the OT, God did not want the people focusing on the law as much as He wanted them to focus on His mercy.  Yes, the law was there (and still is); but Jesus wants us to focus on grace and mercy, which enable the Law to be written on our hearts rather than on tablets of stone.  When we keep the Law by unconsiously following the inclinations of our heart, we won't need a law.

 

I appreciate your scholarship.  No; I did not check the original language.  I am willing to consider that Hebrews 8 might be talking obout the onld covenant growing old/obsolete; but the process won't be complete until we are changed from mortal to immortal.

 

How would you interpret 2 Corinthians 3:4-11:

" Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are competent of ourselves to claim anything as coming from us; our competence is from God,  who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the Spirit; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives life.

Now if the dispensation of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such splendor that the Israelites could not look at Moses’ face because of its brightness, fading as this was,  will not the dispensation of the Spirit be attended with greater splendor?  For if there was splendor in the dispensation of condemnation, the dispensation of righteousness must far exceed it in splendor.  Indeed, in this case, what once had splendor has come to have no splendor at all, because of the splendor that surpasses it.  For if what faded away came with splendor, what is permanent must have much more splendor."

 

I read it as saying the Law brings condemnation; and is fading from glory; while the Spirit's ministry of righteousness is permanent and more wonderful.

[8thdaypriest]

Ron said,

 

"Hebrews does a fine job of explaining why the priesthood and sacrifice of Jesus were more effectual and superior to the priesthood and sacrifices at the Temple.  But Hebrews does not say anything to denigrate or take away from the valid work of the priests and sacrifices at the Temple which God himself established and then confirmed to the descendants of Phinehas as a perpetual priesthood through a covenant of peace (Num 25:11-13) and then confirmed again after all failures of the Israelites with a declaration that the Levitical priesthood would remain as long as day and night continue (Jeremiah 33:19-22).on said,"

 

I do not believe that the covenant with Aaron and Phinehas was an unconditional covenant.  I read the prophecy of the "man of God" spoken to Aaron, as a prediction of the END of the Levite priesthood. 

 

    1 Samuel 2:30-35  “Therefore the LORD God of Israel says: `I said indeed that your house and the house of your father [Aaron] would walk before Me forever.'  But now the LORD says: ‘Far be it from Me; for those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed.  Behold, the days are coming that I will cut off your arm and the arm of your father’s house, [Aaron’s House] so that there will not be an old man in your house [a man of eligible age for the priesthood].  And you will see an enemy in My dwelling place, despite all the good which God does for Israel.   And there shall not be an old man in your house forever.  . . .  Then I will raise up for Myself a faithful priest who shall do according to what is in My heart and in My mind. I will build him a sure house, and he shall walk before My anointed forever.’”

    The “faithful priest” would be Yeshua Messiah.  God would “build Him a sure house” and He would walk before the LORD, as His anointed priest - forever (Psa. 110:4). 

 

Hebrews says, "the priesthood being changed there is of necessity a change of the law". 

You seem to be saying that the law has not been changed. 

 

If you change the priesthood, then there is NO PLACE to take an animal sacrifice.  The law said that every sacrifice had to be brought to an Aaronic priest at the Temple.  

[8thdaypriest]

Concerning the priesthood in the future kingdom of Messiah:

 

    Isaiah 61:4-9   “And they shall rebuild the old ruins.  They shall raise up the former desolations. And they shall repair the ruined cities, the desolations of many generations.  Strangers [non-Israelites] shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the foreigner [non-Israelite] shall be your plowmen and your vine dressers.  But you shall be named the Priests of the LORD.  Men shall call you the Servants of our God.  You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory you shall boast.  Instead of your shame you shall have double honor, and instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.  Therefore in their land they shall possess double [the inheritance of the firstborn].”  “Everlasting joy shall be theirs.  For I, the LORD, love justice; I hate robbery for burnt offering; I will direct their work in truth, and will make with them an everlasting covenant.  Their descendants shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people.  All who see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the posterity whom the LORD has blessed.”

    NOTE:  The firstborn inherited a “double portion” (Deut. 22:17). Their inheritance included a “double portion”of the land, AND the “priesthood.”  Each firstborn son became the representative of the family unit before God.  God said, “Israel is my son, even My firstborn” (Exo. 4:22).  Therefore Israel (all of the redeemed) will inherit the priesthood.  

    NOTE:  The Levites were given NO inheritance in the land.  Therefore the priesthood presented in this prophecy CANNOT be the exclusive Levite priesthood.

 

The LORD declared to all of Israel, "You shall be to me a kingdom of priests".   Peter wrote that is what we are being built up to be.

Revelation 20:5 says that everyone from the first resurrection will be a priest of God and of Christ.

 

I believe that ALL OF REDEEMED ISRAEL will become priests of the Melchizedek order, under Christ. 

 

Yes - faithful Levites will also be priests.  They just will not be the ONLY priests. 

The exclusive Levite priesthood will end.  It was a stopgap measure, not the LORD's perfect will.