Not under the Law...

[Scuba]

How does, not being under the Law, effect the Sabbath? Well, we know the Law didn't make the seventh day holy and blessed God did many years before Sinai, the Law only protected it's holiness. The Law brought strict work prohibition even to stoning for picking up sticks. We are no longer under that old system of relating to God through fear of punishment. Jesus ushered in a system of love, which honors God's will by a different motive. If we love God we will look like someone who is keeping the Law because the Law defines love.

 

Romans 13:8-10 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,“You shall not covet, and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

 

Under the old system we drew our worth and value in the eyes of God by how well we obeyed the commandments. In Christ we draw our worth and value from the cross. The cross teaches us that God's loves us in spite of our sin. 

 

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

 

Let's express our love for God and man the way God defines love. 

 

Be blessed and happy Sabbath...o/

[Ted Oplinger]

Hmmm....got to be careful with that "not under Law" meaning....

 

Galatians 4:4, 5 sates..."But when the fullness of time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were born under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons."

 

Paul's reasoning here is really quite simple - those in need of redemption are born under the Law. So the question is...do you need redemption? Can anyone say they have arrived at a point where they no longer need Christ's redeeming sacrifice? Christ was born "under Law" to redeem those "born under Law". That's you and me...because we both need redeeming.

 

Like it or not, we are "under Law" just as much in the kingdom of God's grace as we are in the kingdom of darkness. We often think "under Law" is meant to be the antithesis of being "under grace", but it isn't - all being "under grace" does is shift the focus of who and how our obedience in any aspect of the Law is accomplished - that, by the power of God indwelling the person. No one can argue that our Redeemer doesn't lay the obligation upon the penitent sinner to "go and sin no more". Grace simply points us to how salvation is accomplished.

 

Isaiah 66:23 indicates the Sabbath will be kept in the earth made new...right alongside all the other commandments - so Sabbath is a character issue, not a behavior issue. The Sabbath indicates that rest is just as much a part of God's character as the rest of the Law pictures Him to be. The evidence is found in Genesis 2:1-3...God rested from His creative work on the seventh day.

 

Simply abstaining from "work" on the seventh day does not constitute obedience to the Sabbath commandment. Numerous Pharisees and Saduccees professed to "keep Sabbath", yet they hung Jesus upon the Cross. There's hallowing, blessing, and sanctifying to consider. God did these things to the Sabbath, then gave it as a sign that He is the One who sanctifies His people (Ezekiel 20:12). His people then participate in His sanctification work by responding to God's desire to sanctify the Sabbath (Ezekiel 20:20, coupled with Philippians 2:12-13).

 

More than any other commandment, it is the Sabbath commandment which points the helpless sinner to a redeeming Creator. It does so with the words, "Remember the Sabbath, to keep it holy." There is no possible way unholy beings (aka, sinners) can even attempt to keep holy what God "blessed, hallowed, and sanctified" in the very beginning. It takes a fundamental change in essence of character - and that is what the Sabbath points the sinner toward. When one does enter into God's salvation covenant, the Sabbath is the constant reminder to the penitent sinner it is God making it possible to participate in sanctifying the Sabbath hours, every single week.

 

The Sabbath is as much a symbol of God's grace as it is a day of rest.

 

Blessings,

[Ron Amnsn]

Under the old system we drew our worth and value in the eyes of God by how well we obeyed the commandments.

Where does it say that in Scripture? Did the Israelites earn their redemption from Egypt by keeping the commandments? It doesn't seems so because they didn't receive the commandments until later when God ratified his covenant at Sinai. The basis of that covenant was "I am the Lord your God..." God chose them, not on the basis of their obedience, but because of grace.

I think the Old Testament gets undeserved criticism from those who don't fully realize that the so-called "old system" was created by the same God using the same principles as those Jesus taught and lived by.

As EGW says, "He who proclaimed the law from Sinai, and delivered to Moses the precepts of the ritual law, is the same that spoke the Sermon on the Mount." {Patriarchs and Prophets pg. 373.2}

[Scuba]

Not being under the Law is referring to its authority to condemn. Listen to how the Pharisees placed the woman under the Law and was expecting her to be condemned by it.

 

John 8:2-11 Now early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?” This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

 

So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them,“He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her, “Woman, where are those accusers of yours? Has no one condemned you?”

 

She said, “No one, Lord.”

 

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

 

Notice how Jesus does not condemn her but tells her to not to sin anymore. 

 

We are no longer under the Law but know this, the Law didn't make these things sinful, it only points them as already being sinful. Murder was a sin long before the Law. 

 

Genesis 4:6-8 So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” Now Cain talked with Abel his brother; and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother and killed him.

 

If we completely remove the Law, murder would still be sin and the Sabbath would still be God's special day. As a Christian we are to follow the teachings of Jesus. He taught many times on how to honor the Sabbath in light of love, not Law. We have freedom in Christ on the Sabbath, not freedom from the Sabbath.

 

Colossians 2:16-17 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

[Scuba]

Where does it say that in Scripture? Did the Israelites earn their redemption from Egypt by keeping the commandments? It doesn't seems so because they didn't receive the commandments until later when God ratified his covenant at Sinai. The basis of that covenant was "I am the Lord your God..." God chose them, not on the basis of their obedience, but because of grace.

I think the Old Testament gets undeserved criticism from those who don't fully realize that the so-called "old system" was created by the same God using the same principles as those Jesus taught and lived by.

As EGW says, "He who proclaimed the law from Sinai, and delivered to Moses the precepts of the ritual law, is the same that spoke the Sermon on the Mount." {Patriarchs and Prophets pg. 373.2}

 

Here is one who draws his value and worth by how well he obeys God.

 

Luke 18:10-14 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

 

You can identify those who draw their value and worth from their ability to obey God because they are very judgmental and critical of others. We all stand valued by God at the cross.

[Scuba]

When it comes to sin, which is to break God's Law, who here, in Christ or out of Christ, can cast the first stone? Who here can truly say they have stopped sinning? Even in saying we don't sin we sin.

 

1 John 1:8-9 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

Those who are in Christ are a work in progress. As we grow and mature in truth, sin, which comes in all shapes and sizes, will slowly loose its strong hold on us but there may be a thorn or two that stays with us until the end. To those who are saved, it is a thorn but to those who are not, its a friend. Listen to Paul.

 

Romans 7:19-25 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

Those who are in Christ are being saved, it’s a work in progress by the Spirit of God. In this work of God the intents of the heart are given more weight than the behavior.

 

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

If the saved heart desires to be sinless but the flesh overpowers the desire God’s grace is sufficient.

 

Romans 5:20-21 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

There is an old saying that goes like this, “I may not be where God wants me to be but at least I’m not where I use to be.” In other words, it’s a growing process and the amazing thing is that this work is an inward force outside of ourselves. Those who are saved are also being saved and in this we find ourselves saying, “O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!” The unregenerate heart is far from this statement.

[Kevin H]

Over about the past 35 years there has been some amazing discoveries in the life of Paul.

It has been pointed out that while we have been reading Paul's words, that we have tended to read into them the events of the Church-Synagogue split of 135 AD, the views of St. Augustine and the views of the Reformers, especially Martin Luther. Thus despite reading his words we have not been getting very much of Paul's theology.

 

Things are starting to change. There are a number of new books out. Of course I'll refer here to Jim Fleming again:

 

 http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=37

http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=64

http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=57

 

Dr. Fleming (and also these newer studies) point out that Saul use to belong to the synagogue of the freedmen. Archaeology has discovered more about this group. They were people either taken in to slavery or the children of those taken into slavery, who after a certain number of years of work they were set free and given full Roman citizenship and full Roman Citizenship to their children. However during those years they had to work 7 days a week, thus no Sabbath keeping.

 

Those who joined the Synagogue  of the Freedmen wanted to make up for those years of Sabbath breaking and other ways they were not able to be faithful, but joining a right wing, fanatical synagogue where the people wanted to prove that they were better law keepers than the Pharisees. They were a hate group. They would learn Hebrew and Aramaic and refuse to speak any other language and wanted the Hellenistic Jews to get in line. They wanted to prove that the were more Jewish than the Pharisees or any other Jew who lived in the land of Israel. The Pharisees and other Jews saw them as an extreme group, similar to our KKK or the Westboro  Baptist Church.

 

The term "Under the Law" was frequently (not always but frequent enough to consider this was what Paul had in mind as he wrote these words) not talking about the 10 commandments or the Torah, but these unique far right wing extras that this Synagogue did to prove that they were better Jews than anyone else.

 

[Robert]

 Gal 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. 19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions (or Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase) until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one. 21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

[Scuba]

 Gal 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. 19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions (or Romans 5:20 The law was added so that the trespass might increase) until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one. 21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.

When we think of the Law don't just think of it as don't lie, don't steal, don't kill, don't worship other gods, don't work on the Sabbath and so on. Think of the Law as when you lie you must die, when you steal you must die, when you worship other gods you must die and work you work on the Sabbath you must die. That's the Law, that's what it means by we are under the Law. When we're in Christ godliness is still not stealing, it's still not worship other gods, it's still viewing the seventh day as holy because all these things were so even before the Law. Grace is not the absence of godliness, it's the absence of you must die. Grace not only teaches us to live godly, it also allows us to grow and learn to live godly because under the Law, you must die and when you are put to death, game over. Under the Law there is no room for growing, learning and strengthening our relationship with God. In Christ, that old way of relating to God through the Law of sin and death is done away with but godliness is eternal.

[Robert]

Under the Law there is no room for growing, learning and strengthening our relationship with God. In Christ, that old way of relating to God through the Law of sin and death is done away with but godliness is eternal.

 

 

Romans 7:6  But now we have been released from the Law, having died (see Rom 7:4/Rom 6:6) to that by which we were bound, so that we serve in newness of the Spirit and not in oldness of the letter.

[8thdaypriest]

To be "born under the Law" meant to be born under the Sinai Covenant. 

Jesus was born under THAT Covenant. 

He was the ONLY one who fulfilled the terms of that Covenant - Perfectly.

Thus He will receive the promise of that Covenant - "the land", perfect health, and great blessings.

We will share in that inheritance BECAUSE we are His bride.

 

But the Son of God was the Creator and Mediator from the beginning.

The Sinai Covenant was a Covenant of Marriage. 

Jeremiah 3:14 “Return, O backsliding children,’ says the LORD; ‘for I am married to you.”

 

The LORD divorced the Northern Kingdom for idolatry.

He preserved a remnant of Judah so that Messiah could be born under the Sinai Covenant.

When the betrothed husband died - the Sinai Covenant became "obsolete". 

 

The principles of that Covenant - Love for God, and Love for fellow man - did NOT become obsolete.

Nine of them are repeated in the First Century Writings (NT), and the Sabbath is prophesied in Isa. 66.

It seems the "new" betrothed "groom" wants the same things from His bride, that He wanted from those gathered at the foot of Sinai (sans the sacrificial system).

 

The "New Covenant" is a new Covenant of Marriage.

The Kingdom is like a man who gave a marriage feast for His Son.  etc. etc. etc.  It is a frequent parable theme.

 

Paul wrote,   4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead” (NAS).   (Rom. 7:4).   

 

Because Christ - the betrothed husband - died, your and I have died in the eyes of the Law.  And a dead person is not bound by the terms of any marriage covenant. 

We are therefore NOT UNDER THE LAW.  = NOT UNDER THE SINAI COVENANT. 

 

We don't loose any of the principles enumerated from Sinai.  They are repeated in the NT, as the outworking of love for God, and fellow man.  The new covenant even goes BEYOND the Sinai Covenant.  That Covenant never required "love" for ones "enemies". 

 

Just my takes on it.

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Robert]

  The new covenant even goes BEYOND the Sinai Covenant.  That Covenant never required "love" for ones "enemies". 

 

It's the same law.  The law of God requires that you "love (agape) your neighbor as your love yourself".  In the NC the law has been fulfilled in Christ.  In Christ we have been made obedient and we have answered the justice of the law. That's because Christ took our corporate life and when He died our old life from Adam died too!  See Romans 6:6/7:4 & 2 Cor 5:14

[8thdaypriest]

From my study of the NT, I believe strongly that the Sinai Covenant is now "obsolete". 

It was rendered obsolete by the death of the "husband". 

The Son of God was the betrothed "husband" of the Sinai Covenant, which was uniquely a Covenant of Marriage.

The Abrahamic Covenant was NOT a covenant of marriage.  Neither was the post flood covenant with Noah, or the promise/prophecy to David that His descendant Son would rule Israel.

 

The Adventists and a few others want to split the Sinai Covenant into the "Moral Law" and the "Ceremonial" or prophetic Law.  They say that only the ceremonial part goes away.  I don't think that works.  You cannot divide it up.  It's a package.  And THAT Covenant with the descendants of Jacob was rendered "obsolete" when the "husband" died  (Rom 4). 

 

I believe the LORD in His foreknowledge, planned it that way.  Entry into a "new" Covenant becomes absolutely necessary - thru confession of faith in Jesus as the Christ, and by baptism in His name.  THAT is how we are "betrothed" to Him.  First century Jews could not simply continue in the Sinai Covenant.  They MUST enter into the New Covenant, thru confession of Jesus. 

 

The New Covenant is ALSO a COVENANT OF MARRIAGE !!

At this time, we are betrothed.  The "wedding feast" and the consummation have NOT yet happened.  They are future. 

 

The end of the Sinai Covenant does NOT mean we believers are free from moral obligation. 

Under the New Covenant, the LORD will write His law on the hearts of those who enter into Covenant with Him.

His Law is simply LOVE.  Love for God and love for fellow man.

 

The Sabbath is the ONLY commandment which is questioned (if you ignore the use of images in Catholicism). 

The Sabbath did NOT begin at Sinai.  It began at creation, and will continue in the "new earth" according to Isa. 66. 

It is clearly part of His Law, which He will write on our hearts. 

 

It is clear from New Covenant writings, that justification, and sanctification, and salvation are thru Christ alone.

It is clear that a journey to Jerusalem in order to offer sacrifice is NOT required for justification before our God, under the New Covenant. 

 

The dietary laws from Leviticus, I put down to health - which the ancient Israelites did not understand, but we do today. 

I just tell people that I don't eat scavengers, carnivores, or bottom filter feeders. 

I don't NEED Leviticus 23 to tell me THAT. 

 

Blessings,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Robert]

From my study of the NT, I believe strongly that the Sinai Covenant is now "obsolete". 

 

No, it is alive and well....After all it is the law that brings the curse (the 2nd death) upon all who reject Christ's righteousness.

 

Adventists and a few others want to split the Sinai Covenant into the "Moral Law" and the "Ceremonial" 

 

 

Let's read Gal 3:10

 

"Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them."

 

The book of the law (i.e., the first, five books of the OT) contains many laws, especially the moral law.

 

Of the law in Galatians, Ellen White said:  "I am asked concerning the law in Galatians. What law is the schoolmaster to bring us to Christ? I answer: Both the ceremonial and the moral code of ten commandments."

 

 

Now Christ: Matt 5:17 "Do not think that I (Christ) came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 

18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." 

 

So the law has not been abolished...especially the moral law.

[Robert]

More evidence:

 

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? (Is the law bad?) Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law.

 

What law, given at Mount Sinai, commands "do not covet"?  Answer:  The 10th commandment (see Ex 20:17)

 

Verse 10 "the commandment (i.e., the 10th commandment), which was to bring life, I found to bring death."

 

You see as a Pharisee, Saul thought life (eternal life) was gained through the keeping of the law.  But when he realized that the law (i.e., the 10th commandment) demanded that his thoughts were to be perfect, the law that he thought brought life actually brought the curse.

 

To move from under law to under grace means the unbeliever needs to accept the righteousness of Christ and His fulfillment of the law.  Hence Christ came to deliver the human race from under law.

 

Gal 4:4 "But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those who were under the law..."

 

If Christ did away with the law then He need not have taken its curse.  All who come to Him and receive His righteousness (both imputed and imparted) have been delivered from under law.  To remain under law means death...the 2nd death.

[8thdaypriest]

Robert,

I think you missed my point entirely. 

God's Law of love is as old as God Himself.  The Sabbath was as old as creation of this earth.  Exclusive marriage was as old as the creation of male and female human beings. 

It did NOT begin at Sinai.  Every human being is condemned to eternal death by this law. 

 

I was speaking specifically of His Covenant with Israel.  That Covenant said, "Keep My Law (which already and always has existed) and I will be a husband to you". 

THAT is why idolatry was termed adultery. 

 

The LORD chose Israel to act out prophecy concerning Himself, and to be the vehicle thru which He could reveal His law of morality and justice. 

 

The LORD's covenant with Israel included many things that we no longer do today.  We don't stone Sabbath breakers.  Men do not have sex with their widowed sister-in-laws, until she produces a male "heir" for her dead husband.  We do not shun and isolate women who are menstruating.  We no longer offer animal sacrifices.  Etc.

 

I believe THAT covenant (made with Israel - not with all mankind) was a "Covenant of Marriage". 

The LORD set it up that way, so that - when the "husband" died, THAT covenant would END (along with the exclusive Aaronic priesthood, and the animal sacrifices).

The LORD then immediately initiated a NEW "Covenant of Marriage" with those (from all nations) who would "believe on Him". 

 

We are NOW "bound by the law of" our New "Husband".  (No once-saved-always-saved.) 

The remedy for transgression is NEW, under this new covenant,  Christ is our "lamb" - NOT a dead animal. 

Christ risen is our priest - not sinful men. 

 

Yes - the "new covenant" is also with Israel, but Gentile converts are "grafted in" to her.  And the rebellious will be "cut off" from her. 

No Israelite could remarry a woman he had divorced.  No priest could marry a woman who was not a virgin daughter of Israel.

The ONLY way for the "husband" of Israel to remarry her, was for Him to die.  That resets everything. 

He must also restore her to virginal state, wiping away all record of her former "actions". 

This Christ will do for "his bride". 

 

The risen "husband" has revealed His will concerning His "bride":  love and loyalty towards Him, and unselfish love towards others. 

 

The prophetic ceremonial priesthood, and sacrifices can be declared "obsolete", BECAUSE we are now under a "new" covenant, wherein Christ risen is our Priest, and our Sacrifice. 

 

God's law (His will) already existed.  Israel was simply a vehicle for the LORD to reveal that law. 

God's law (His perfect will) will exist thru all eternity.    We human beings will simply be brought into harmony with that law. 

God's prophetic ceremonial law, administered thru the Aaronic priesthood by means of animal sacrifice, came to an end with the Sinai Marriage Covenant, when the "husband" DIED.   

 

The "death of the husband" is the ONLY LEGAL WAY  to end the law of animal sacrifices, so far as I can see. 

If you can express a better LEGAL means, I would be most interested. 

 

Respectfully,

Rachel Cory

Prophecy Viewpoint

[Robert]

The Old Covenant has been fulfilled "in Christ", but those who have not received Christ remain under the terms of the OC, which are "obey & live" - "disobey & die"!  So, today, both these covenants are alive and well.

 

The unbeliever is under law and if he rejects Christ the law will be his judge.

 

The believer is under grace and as long as his faith remains in Christ, his righteousness, the law can't touch him.
 

[8thdaypriest]

To which "old covenant" are you referring - specifically ?? 

Scripture verse ??

[Robert]

To which "old covenant" are you referring - specifically ?? 

Scripture verse ??

 

The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26. (Ellen White)

 

Ex 34:28 Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments.29 When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the Testimony in his hands, he was not aware that his face was radiant because he had spoken with the LORD. 

[LifeHiscost]

The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Ezekiel 20:11; Leviticus 18:5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them." Deuteronomy 27:26. (Ellen White)

 

Ex 34:28 Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments.29 When Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the Testimony in his hands, he was not aware that his face was radiant because he had spoken with the LORD. 

I'm satisfied where it talks about being under the law which was against us, it is referring to the instructions spoken to Moses by the Lord for/to those delivered from Egyptian slavery and written on scrolls of parchment, whereas the Ten Commandments have never been a curse and they were written by the finger of God, twice, on stone with His finger.

 

…20Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.…Galatians 3

 

28Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?…Heb 10

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Robert]

 

When Paul says we are not under Law it means we are not under the punishment we have to face for breaking the Law,i.e., not under its condemnation  

 

Under law is not just condemnation.  The terms of the old covenant are,

 

1] Obey & live

 

2] Disobey & die.

 

If # 2 is removed, then # 1 still requires perfect obedience to gain eternal life. If one fails then there's no eternal life.  Hence both are valid.  You have been delivered from requirements 1 & 2.

[JoeMo]

I thought the Sinai Covenant was between Israel and God - not all of mankind and God.  In my understanding, the only part of the Law that is universal is the 10 Commandments; other laws (e.g., circumcision, feastdays, civil, dietatary) was for Israel only.  Of course, that opens up the question of who is Israel?  Is it just descendants of Jacob, or is it anyone who follows Christ?

[Scuba]

In all of God's instruction is wisdom. In the Old Covenant, God's wisdom was enforced by fear of punishment in order to protect His creation and His plan. Under the New Covenant we come to value God's wisdom and find hope in His plan. In the new birth there is no need of fear of punishment to obey God's wisdom.

 

In Christ we learn that God loves us and only wants His best for us. In the new birth God empowers us through His Spirit to follow His wisdom because it's right and good. In this we don't find God's wisdom grievous or a burden. I don't eat unclean meat because of a law, I don't eat unclean meat because it's wise not to. 

[Robert]

I thought the Sinai Covenant was between Israel and God - not all of mankind .....

Rom 3:9...For we have previously charged both Jews and Gentiles that they are all under sin.

10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; ....19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Two points:

1]There is none righteous be it Jew or Gentile.

2] Who states there is none righteous? Answer: The law. Why? So every mouth (not just the Jew, but both Jew & Gentile) may be shut and "the world" (the human race) may become guilty before God.

[Robert]

Rom 5:20 "The Law came in so that the transgression would increase"

 

The law didn't come in to make things better.  The law was given to turn ignorant sin into transgression.  The law was given to prove that  we are sinners.

 

Turn to Gal 3:19

 

"Why the Law then?"

 

In other words why was the law given?

 

"It was added because of transgressions". In other words the law was given to turn sin into deliberate sin (transgression).

 

Now Ellen White:

 

"But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference. Romans 3:21, 22.

 

What is justification by faith (the gospel received by faith)?  It is the work of God in laying the glory of man in the dust, and doing for man (i.e., saving him "in Christ") that which it is not in his power to do for himself. When men see their own nothingness, they are prepared to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ."

 

Now, how does God place the glory of man in the dust?  Answer:  He uses the law to expose our wretchedness. Let's read on:

 

"Those whom heaven recognizes as holy ones are the last to parade their own goodness. The apostle Peter became a faithful minister of Christ, and he was greatly honored with divine light and power; he had an active part in the upbuilding of Christ’s church; but Peter never forgot the fearful experience of his humiliation; his sin was forgiven; yet well he knew that for the weakness of character which had caused his fall only the grace of Christ could avail. He found in himself nothing in which to glory.

 

None of the apostles or prophets ever claimed to be without sin. Men who have lived nearest to God, men who would sacrifice life itself rather than knowingly commit a wrong act, men whom God had honored with divine light and power, have confessed the sinfulness of their own nature. They have put no confidence in the flesh, have claimed no righteousness of their own, but have trusted wholly in the righteousness of Christ. So will it be with all who behold Christ."

 

Now notice the following:

 

"The righteousness of Christ, as a pure white pearl, has no defect, no stain, no guilt. This righteousness may be ours. Salvation, with its blood-bought, inestimable treasures, is the pearl of great price.

 

The thought that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us, not because of any merit on our part, but as a free gift from God, is a precious thought. The enemy of God and man is not willing that this truth should be clearly presented; for he knows that if the people receive it fully, his power will be broken. "

 

Did you get that?  Not "imparted", but "imputed"!!!!  Imparted is what God does in us as we rest in His finished work.  But that's not what Ellen White is writing about.  She is writing about our position "in Christ" or the imputed righteousness of Christ.  

 

So our only hope is the imputed righteousness of Christ.  Yes, we will grow as we rest in Him, but as long as life last we will never be good enough for heaven.  Who says?  Answer: God's law!

 

 

Ref: http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=FLB&pagenumber=111