Here is something to think about...

[Scuba]

Referring to bisexuals and transgenders.

 

What takes precedence, the inward thought or the outward appearance.

 

Let me explain. If a female believes and feels she is a male in a female body what takes precedence?  The inward thoughts and feelings or the physical make up of the body?

 

Is she wrong for feeling the way she does or does she have a birth defect where she should have a male body to go along with her male inward expression?

 

Should she have the right to conform the outward to fit the inward or should she conform the inward to fit the outward, if that's even possible?

 

How would God feel about her with either choice?

 

Just some thoughts to think about. 

[Stewart (SDA)]

Hello Scuba. This is an interesting subject. It is one that carries potential for emotive views of course, but it is something that I've pondered, and so I will venture to share a thought on it. Hopefully it is clear enough to follow.

 

One of the statutes/laws given to Israel included this clause,

 

"you shall not let your cattle gender with a diverse kind: you shall not sow your field with mingled seed" (Lev 19:19).

 

From this I understand that the production of "hybrids" was to be carefully guarded against. It seems inevitable that hybrids would appear, but insofar as it was possible, the people were to take measures to avoid it happening.

 

One species mixing with another, was always to be considered "confusion" (Lev 18:23).

 

Now today there are people that are [in that sense] physically and emotionally confused. I am not saying that it is their fault that they are this way, and God's love for them is certainly not in question. But in my view, such people are ill (I believe that they possess the defects you mentioned), and I am not sure whether there is any means whereby they can be restored. It is a tragic scenario, and ultimately it must be said that "an enemy has done this." I can't accept that Transgender people have come about by God's design, but as Jesus teaches in one of His lessons -- it doesn't matter whose 'fault' it is.

 

The person you speak of must have the right (the God given right,) to make their 'outward' conform to their 'inward', and yet I think it should be remembered that our bodies are not our own.

[LifeHiscost]

One species mixing with another, was always to be considered "confusion" (Lev 18:23).

 

Now today there are people that are [in that sense] physically and emotionally confused. I am not saying that it is their fault that they are this way, and God's love for them is certainly not in question. But in my view, such people are ill (I believe that they possess the defects you mentioned), and I am not sure whether there is any means whereby they can be restored. It is a tragic scenario, and ultimately it must be said that "an enemy has done this." I can't accept that Transgender people have come about by God's design, but as Jesus teaches in one of His lessons -- it doesn't matter whose 'fault' it is.

 

The person you speak of must have the right (the God given right,) to make their 'outward' conform to their 'inward', and yet I think it should be remembered that our bodies are not our own.

Lev 20 is part of what I think is the law which was against us and describes moral behavior which rules became necessary to delineate after man's fall, the law of Moses spoken to him by God for the children of men lest they destroy themselves before having opportunity to receive grace through the cleansing blood of Jesus, foreshadowed by the sacrificial system pointing forward to Jesus before He came the first time.

 

…20Now a mediator is not for one party only; whereas God is only one. 21Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. 22But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.…Galatians 3

 

11But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,^a he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation. 12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining^b eternal redemption. 13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,^c so that we may serve the living God!

15For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.

16In the case of a will,^d it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.”^e 21In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.....Heb 9

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Stewart (SDA)]

Lev 20 is part of what I think is the law which was against us and describes moral behavior which rules became necessary to delineate after man's fall, the law of Moses spoken to him by God for the children of men lest they destroy themselves before having opportunity to receive grace through the cleansing blood of Jesus, foreshadowed by the sacrificial system pointing forward to Jesus before He came the first time...

 

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

Hello LifeHiscost,

 

Thank you for this thought.

 

I'm not sure why you've referred to Lev 20, but I think we are seeing the Books of the Law somewhat differently. You appear to be saying that all the laws (excluding the Ten Commandments I'm sure,) were against us, and needed to be taken out of the way.

 

But of course many people teach that the law of clean and unclean animals was "against us" too, and that Jesus' sacrifice took that law "out of the way". But we do not hold to this teaching, do we?

 

The apostle Paul repeatedly teaches principles from the law. For example, "You shall not muzzle the Ox when he treads out the corn". And Peter refers, I think, to the law of Lev 11,19, & 20 when he says "it is written, be ye holy for I am holy". So in terms of principle, I suggest that the Book of the Law is still full of things that are applicable for us today.

[JoeMo]

I really have no reference point from which to answer this.  I have had what society would call a pretty normal sex life and gender identification.  It's feasible to me that nature and nurture could work either together or independently to produce gender issues, In my mind, I don't see how a stable person would make a conscious choice to be "different" in that way; so to me it must be something that people are born with.  But what do I know?  I've always "liked" girls/women; but I'm totally comfortable around anyone who is "different".

[Scuba]

Hello Scuba. This is an interesting subject. It is one that carries potential for emotive views of course, but it is something that I've pondered, and so I will venture to share a thought on it. Hopefully it is clear enough to follow.

 

One of the statutes/laws given to Israel included this clause,

 

"you shall not let your cattle gender with a diverse kind: you shall not sow your field with mingled seed" (Lev 19:19).

 

From this I understand that the production of "hybrids" was to be carefully guarded against. It seems inevitable that hybrids would appear, but insofar as it was possible, the people were to take measures to avoid it happening.

 

One species mixing with another, was always to be considered "confusion" (Lev 18:23).

 

Now today there are people that are [in that sense] physically and emotionally confused. I am not saying that it is their fault that they are this way, and God's love for them is certainly not in question. But in my view, such people are ill (I believe that they possess the defects you mentioned), and I am not sure whether there is any means whereby they can be restored. It is a tragic scenario, and ultimately it must be said that "an enemy has done this." I can't accept that Transgender people have come about by God's design, but as Jesus teaches in one of His lessons -- it doesn't matter whose 'fault' it is.

 

The person you speak of must have the right (the God given right,) to make their 'outward' conform to their 'inward', and yet I think it should be remembered that our bodies are not our own.

I enjoyed the wisdom in your post.

[Scuba]

I really have no reference point from which to answer this.  I have had what society would call a pretty normal sex life and gender identification.  It's feasible to me that nature and nurture could work either together or independently to produce gender issues, In my mind, I don't see how a stable person would make a conscious choice to be "different" in that way; so to me it must be something that people are born with.  But what do I know?  I've always "liked" girls/women; but I'm totally comfortable around anyone who is "different".

Amen! It's such a difficult subject because we don't truly understand the compilations the body can experience in the birthing process. I would hate to be judgmental towards someone with a birth defect. At the same time I'm sure there are those how are just out right perverted.

[LifeHiscost]

Hello LifeHiscost,

 

Thank you for this thought.

 

I'm not sure why you've referred to Lev 20, but I think we are seeing the Books of the Law somewhat differently. You appear to be saying that all the laws (excluding the Ten Commandments I'm sure,) were against us, and needed to be taken out of the way.

Leviticus was just chosen randomly (providentially) with the idea in mind that before Jesus took the responsibility for our penalty of death as part of His gift to sinful humanity, the covenant was based partially on man behaving appropriately in accordance to God's injunctions, giving them all the time they (fallen humanity) needed to come to the conclusion there is no way they, fallen or unfallen, humans can accomplish what's needed to affect their eternal life for the better without the indwelling Spirit of Christ within, doing it for them. And that will never change throughout eternity and has always been from time in memoriam.

 

13for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure....Phil 2

 

20'Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me....Revelation 3

 

21.even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me....John 17

 

…11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.....1 John5

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves!