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Are Michael and Jesus one and the same? The answer is, no.


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Posted

God uses mediators to interact with His creation. God has spoken to His creation in many different ways throughout the Old Testament (Hebrews 1:1-2). Michael, as the Archangel or chief messenger of God, is one of those ways. The term, Archangel, defines Michael as the chief way God interacted with His creation in times past but this is no longer the case. In these last days God is speaking to us through His Son, Jesus (Hebrews 1:1-2). In other words, Michael was used more than any other in times past but now God is speaking to us through His Son. 

 

The same word/logos that came through Michael, as God's chief messenger in times past, is now, in these last days, coming through Jesus (1 Timothy 2:5).

 

When Jesus returns, Michael will be accompanying Him (Matthew 16:27 & Matthew 25:31 & 1 Thessalonians 4:16). 

 

The word/logos of God is eternal because God is eternal. Angels are created and Jesus was born making Him the beginning of God's new creation (Revelation 3:14) but the word of God/logos is eternal. Both Michael and Jesus had to obey the eternal logos of God. 

 

The logos of God is God in that it carries the power and authority of God Himself (John 1:1). If you resist the logos of God, you resist God. Anyone who speaks the logos of God is given the title, God, because he represents God and speaks for God (John 10:34-35). 

 

Jesus was 100% man with the fullness of God dwelling in Him (Colossians 2:9). The Spirit of God carries the logos of God and the power of God (Proverbs 1:23). Jesus speaks the logos of God because He was given God's Spirit without limit (John 3:34).

 

Jesus had within Himself God's word, as well as, His own words. God's word is eternal, Jesus' words were temporal. Jesus had to resist His temporal words in order to speak God's eternal words (John 7:16 & John 14:24). Jesus had to learn to obey the words of God, His Father, lest He be disqualified as the unblemished sacrifice (Hebrews 5:8-9).

 

Conclusion: God, in times past, spoke and interacted with His creation in many different ways but in these last days He is speaking to us through His Son, Jesus Christ, through whom He created the new creation, the age to come, the kingdom of God.

 

Hebrews 1:1-2 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also *He made the world to come.

 

*Hebrews 2:5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels.

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Sometimes our behavior needs time to catch up to our salvation... ::puppykisses::

Posted

Michael was the Captain of the armies in heaven. (Rev 12:7) When "the captain of the Lord's host" came upon the scene at Jericho and spoke with Joshua, it becomes very apparent that the Captain of the Lord's army is Christ Himself. Whether in heaven or upon the earth, Michael is the Captain of the Lord's armies.

 

Joshua chapter 5 ends with the Captain saying to Joshua, "loose thy shoe from off thy foot", then the chapter break occurs, but the Captain continues speaking to Joshua in chapter 6. Now His language is more explicit, "And the LORD said unto Joshua, See, I have given into thine hand Jericho, and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour."

 

Michael was and is the Divine Captain of the Lord's host.

 

__________________

Scuba, you appear to be working here as a correcter, a revealer of errors... but do you acknowledge that you are a stranger in another man's house? As a visitor, I would ask please that you acknowledge our liberty to speak openly in our own house without having to justify our expressions at almost every step. You are a stranger here, and I ask that you be more mindful of this.

 

There are "little ones" that are meek and lowly, but these will not come [and stay long] in "rooms" like this, if there is a constant airing of discordant views. Perhaps we are poor representatives of our teachings today, but I still assert that our doctrines are more securely laid than you might think.

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Posted

Michael is a name assumed by Christ when He is in direct confrontation with Satan. Michael means. "Who is like the Most High", and is a direct rebuke to Satan, who seeks the throne of the Most High. It reminds Satan he is but the pretender to the throne Christ sits at the right hand of.

 

"Archangel" simply means "leader of the angels". "Angel" simply means "messenger" in the Bible. No reference to who or what that messenger may be. There are cherubim messengers...Seraphim messengers...and human messengers (Hebrews 13:2).

 

Michael is the "archangel", the "Leader of messengers" from the Throne of Heaven. I have no problem with that.

 

Where people get sidetracked on the issue is in getting their definition of "angel" different from what the Bible defines the word to be.

 

Blessings,

"As iron sharpens iron, so also does one man sharpen another" - Proverbs 27:17

"The offense of the cross is that the cross is a confession of human frailty and sin and of inability to do any good thing. To take the cross of Christ means to depend solely on Him for everything, and this is the abasement of all human pride. Men love to fancy themselves independent. But let the cross be preached, let it be made known that in man dwells no good thing and that all must be received as a gift, and straightway someone is offended." Ellet J. Waggoner, The Glad Tidings

"Courage is being scared to death - and saddling up anyway" - John Wayne

"The person who pays an ounce of principle for a pound of popularity gets badly cheated" - Ronald Reagan

Posted

Michael is the "chief messenger" who is "like unto God". 

 

Certainly sounds like the Son of God to me.

8thdaypriest

Posted

Scuba, you appear to be working here as a correcter, a revealer of errors... but do you acknowledge that you are a stranger in another man's house? As a visitor, I would ask please that you acknowledge our liberty to speak openly in our own house without having to justify our expressions at almost every step. You are a stranger here, and I ask that you be more mindful of this.

 

There are "little ones" that are meek and lowly, but these will not come [and stay long] in "rooms" like this, if there is a constant airing of discordant views. Perhaps we are poor representatives of our teachings today, but I still assert that our doctrines are more securely laid than you might think.

 

You are absolutely right, I apologize.

 

Give me some more verses that testify of Michael and Jesus being one of the same. I can see how people can come to that conclusion but what stops me are these verses.

 

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son”? 

 

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”

 

Hebrews 2:5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels.

 

How do you reconcile these verses with Jesus being the Angel Michael?

Sometimes our behavior needs time to catch up to our salvation... ::puppykisses::

Posted

Michael is the "chief messenger" who is "like unto God". 

 

Certainly sounds like the Son of God to me.

Rachel, are you speaking truthfully, or are you sitting in the scorner's seat? If the latter is the case, then please be careful... because I don't think you understand what you are doing. Determining Michael's identity is really nothing in comparison to issues of this nature. Even if it was just a little "idle word", remember that you will still have to give an account.

 

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful." (Ps 1:1)

Posted

I have yet to receive answers to my question. I agree that I should not be speaking against what one believes but if what one believes is not true then I have an obligation to speak.

 

How do you reconcile these verses with Jesus being the Angel Michael?

 

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son”? 

 

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”

 

Hebrews 2:5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels.

 

To me, Michael was the Archangel or chief messenger of God but there is a new Sheriff in town, Jesus the Christ. God has made Him Lord and Christ.

 

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”

 

I agree that in time past Michael was the go to but Jesus, through His resurrection, now has a name above all names. All angels, even Michael, are to worship and obey Jesus.

 

Hebrews 1:5-6 For to which of the angels did He ever say“You are My Son, today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”? But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: “Let all the angels of God worship Him.”

 

I have no problem with receiving Michael as being Jesus if the above verses can be reconciled.

Sometimes our behavior needs time to catch up to our salvation... ::puppykisses::

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Posted

Last night I was reading in Numbers 22 the account of Balak and Balaam. There Scripture freely interchanges, "the Lord," with, "Angel of the Lord". Does this mean that God was an angel? Not at all. The term, "angel" is used metaphorically when Jesus comes with an important message, such as in this case or when speaking with the wife of Manoah regarding the birth of Samson who would deliver the Israelites from the Philistines.

Myself, I have no problem with the name Michael used the same way. Jesus is not an angel even though angelic terms are sometimes applied to him. He is not a branch, vine, water or bread, even though sometimes in Scripture He is called by those names.

Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.

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Posted

The literal meaning of the word translated as angel is messenger.

"Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good."

"Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal."

"I love God only as much as the person I love the least."

*Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth.

(And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.)

Posted

To me, the word angel has two meanings. The first meaning of the word angel is a created being called an angel. The second meaning is the word messenger. Anyone speaking for God, whether human or not, is a messenger. Michael is a created angel who is also a messenger. Jesus was never a created angel but He is a messenger. Michael will always remain a created angel, where as, Jesus will not.

Sometimes our behavior needs time to catch up to our salvation... ::puppykisses::

Posted

Rachel, are you speaking truthfully, or are you sitting in the scorner's seat? If the latter is the case, then please be careful... because I don't think you understand what you are doing. Determining Michael's identity is really nothing in comparison to issues of this nature. Even if it was just a little "idle word", remember that you will still have to give an account.

 

"Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful." (Ps 1:1)

Don't judge Stewart.  Every person who comes to this forum (except the occasional atheist) believes he/she will answer to God.  We don't need to be reminded.

You have not read many of my posts, or you would know that I have walked with the LORD for some 36 years (since I was 30). 

 

I was VERY serious. 

I believe the Michael who contended for the body of Moses WAS the pre-incarnate Son of God. 

 

He is known as "the messenger of the Covenant" (Malachi 3:1) - "The angel of the Covenant".

He is the "Angel of the LORD" all thru the OT.

 

There is a study at my website titled "The Mediator". 

In that study I go back thru all the places where "the LORD" appeared to human beings, in the form of a man. 

Since "no man has seen the Father", that means "the LORD" who "appeared to" men of old, must have been God's Son.

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8thdaypriest

Posted
We read these words in Daniel’s prophecy: “And at that time, Michael shall stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time; and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.” 

 

Could anyone be described as the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people, other than Jesus? Even the Angel Gabriel, who stood in the very presence of God has never been afforded that appellation. And if thought so, who and where would they have come from?

 

God is Love!   Jesus saves!  :smiley:

Lift Jesus up!!

Posted

Could anyone be described as the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people, other than Jesus? Even the Angel Gabriel, who stood in the very presence of God has never been afforded that appellation. And if thought so, who and where would they have come from?

 

God is Love!   Jesus saves!  :smiley:

 

It seems to me that Jesus has one up on Michael.

 

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son”? 

 

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”

 

Hebrews 2:5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels.

 

All throughout the OT we find Jesus in seed form as the seed of the woman, the seed of Abraham and the seed of David. The seed testifies of Jesus' human bloodline but the miraculous conception in the womb of Mary came from the power of God through His Spirit. What part of this is Michael? There is a bridge there that needs to be built. Not only that, we have the man child in Revelation existing at the same time Michael is warring in heaven.

Sometimes our behavior needs time to catch up to our salvation... ::puppykisses::

Posted

Don't judge Stewart.  Every person who comes to this forum (except the occasional atheist) believes he/she will answer to God.  We don't need to be reminded.

You have not read many of my posts, or you would know that I have walked with the LORD for some 36 years (since I was 30). 

 

I was VERY serious. 

I believe the Michael who contended for the body of Moses WAS the pre-incarnate Son of God. 

 

He is known as "the messenger of the Covenant" (Malachi 3:1) - "The angel of the Covenant".

He is the "Angel of the LORD" all thru the OT.

 

There is a study at my website titled "The Mediator". 

In that study I go back thru all the places where "the LORD" appeared to human beings, in the form of a man. 

Since "no man has seen the Father", that means "the LORD" who "appeared to" men of old, must have been God's Son.

 

I got a chance to visit your website today and all I can say is, WOW! You spent a lot of time and prayer I'm sure building that website. It's packed with information that provokes thinking and searching. Thank you for the time you put into being a faithful servant of the Lord.

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Sometimes our behavior needs time to catch up to our salvation... ::puppykisses::

Posted

Don't judge Stewart.  Every person who comes to this forum (except the occasional atheist) believes he/she will answer to God.  We don't need to be reminded.

You have not read many of my posts, or you would know that I have walked with the LORD for some 36 years (since I was 30). 

 

I was VERY serious. 

I believe the Michael who contended for the body of Moses WAS the pre-incarnate Son of God. 

 

He is known as "the messenger of the Covenant" (Malachi 3:1) - "The angel of the Covenant".

He is the "Angel of the LORD" all thru the OT.

 

There is a study at my website titled "The Mediator". 

In that study I go back thru all the places where "the LORD" appeared to human beings, in the form of a man. 

Since "no man has seen the Father", that means "the LORD" who "appeared to" men of old, must have been God's Son.

I am sorry Rachel,

 

I am feeling like the Eli, and you to me are the Hannah at the gate. I hope you understand what I mean. Again, I am sorry for casting doubt upon your expression, but I did try to be careful not to pronounce a verdict, as a judge pronounces a verdict.

 

Stewart.

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Posted

Thanks Stewart. 

8thdaypriest

Posted

Daniel 12:1 is abundantly clear that Michael and Jesus are one and the same because its impossible for a created angel to stand for the people of God, a job which belongs ONLY to Jesus.  Hence, the conclusion that Michael is not Jesus is totally discredited regardless of any other verses in Hebrews or elsewhere that appears to provide a contradiction.  The word angel in those verses in Hebrews refers to a created being, which Jesus is not for he is divinity.  But he clearly has a role as an angel as is revealed repeatedly in the Old Testament.  For example, in the story in Genesis 16 about the maid of Sarah, Hagar, she ran away into the desert.  According to the story, the angel of the Lord came to her and asked her what she was doing there.  In the conversation that followed, its clear that the angel which came is none other than Christ because he says to her that

"I will multiply your descendants exceedingly, that they shall not be numbered for multitude."  Note how he says this because he did NOT say "The Lord will multiply...."  No, instead he says "I will multiply...."  He could not have used the word "I" unless he is God, but he is clearly referred to as an angel in the story.  Hagar clearly understood that she had seen God (Jesus) because of her statement in verse 13, which was, "And she called the name of the LORD that spoke unto her, You God, see me: for she said, Have I also here seen him that sees me?"  So, it is clear that in some cases, Jesus can be referred to as an angel.  Thus, to harmonize Genesis 16 with Hebrews 1:5,13; 2:5, the only way that it can harmonize is for the word angel in Hebrews to refer to a nondivine being, whereas in Genesis 16, it does refer to a divine being.  Thus, the definition that an angel is merely a messenger remains true, but it does NOT define it an nondivine automatically no do the verses in Hebrews exclude Jesus as Michael.  The immediate context and the whole Bible makes this abundantly clear. 

 

Your claim is clearly false.  But I suspect you will remain of the same opinion still regardless of the facts. 

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Posted

Why doesn't Luke say it was Jesus who spoke with Moses?

 

Acts 7:29-31 Then, at this saying, Moses fled and became a dweller in the land of Midian, where he had two sons. “And when forty years had passed, an Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire in a bush, in the wilderness of Mount Sinai. When Moses saw it, he marveled at the sight; and as he drew near to observe, the voice of the Lord came to him. Acts 7:37-39 “This is that Moses who said to the children of Israel, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear.’ “This is he who was in the congregation in the wilderness with the Angel who spoke to him on Mount Sinai, and with our fathers, the one who received the living oracles to give to us, whom our fathers would not obey, but rejected. And in their hearts they turned back to Egypt.

 

I agree that God used mediators in the OT to represent His presence. When the mediator spoke, he spoke as it were God Himself speaking. Notice how when they heard the Angel speaking they where hearing the voice of God.

 

Exodus 23:20-22 “Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him. But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries.

 

This Angel is God's representative. When the Angel appears it's the presence of God with them and when they rebelled against the Angel they grieved the Holy Spirit. So to me, the Angel of His Presence is the Holy Spirit.

 

Isaiah 63:8-10 For He said, “Surely they are My people, Children who will not lie.” So He became their Savior. In all their affliction He was afflicted, And the Angel of His Presence saved them; In His love and in His pity He redeemed them; And He bore them and carried them All the days of old. But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; So He turned Himself against them as an enemy, And He fought against them.

 

It's the Holy Spirit that makes God's words known.

 

Proverbs 1:23 Turn at my rebuke; Surely I will pour out my spirit on you; I will make my words known to you.

 

So to me, the Angel of the Lord is the Spirit of God manifesting the presence of God. This is separate from Michael, though Michael is an important being I God's government. 

 

Whatever label you want to put on the Spirit of God manifesting as the Angel of the Lord it was this that became flesh in John 1, not Michael.

 

Hebrews 1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son.

 

The various times and in various ways that God spoke was the manifestation of God's Spirit as the Angel of the Lord, not Michael.

Sometimes our behavior needs time to catch up to our salvation... ::puppykisses::

Posted

There is ONE God, and ONE Mediator.  (I Timothy 2:5). 

 

    John 6:46 [Yeshua speaking] “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.”

 

    Exodus 6:3  “And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob,  by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.”

    If He appeared - if they saw Him, then this must be the Son, because NO MAN has SEEN the Father.
    
    If the Son of God is the mediator or representative for His Father, then He would take the NAME of His Father.  The ancients understood this very well - that the emissary of the King comes in the name of the King.  Yehovah would then be the name of the pre-incarnate Son - who came in the name of His Father.

 

    Genesis  17:1-22  “When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD [ADONAI] appeared to Abram and said to him,  ‘I am Almighty God [El Shaddai]; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.’” ...

    NOTE:  Remember that Messiah is called “Mighty God” in Isaiah 9:6.

 

Genesis 18:1-33 “Then the Lord [Yehovah] appeared to him [Abraham] by the terebinth trees of Mamre” . . . “three men were standing by him.”
        [One of the men said to Abraham] “I will certainly return to you according to the time of life, and behold, Sarah your wife shall have a son” (v.10).   
        [As the “men” are ready to depart] “And the Lord [ADONAI] said, ‘Shall I hide from Abraham what I am doing . . .?” (v.17). ‘I will go down now [to Sodom] and see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry against it that has come to Me; and if not, I will know. . .

    Genesis 18:1-33 cont.  “If I find fifty righteous . . . then I will spare all . . .’ Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the LORD [ADONAI] . . .”  
    So the Lord went His way as soon as He had finished speaking with Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place.”  
        “Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening . . .” (19:1).

    NOTE:  The three“men” who visited with Abraham were actually the pre-incarnate Son of God and two of His heavenly angels.  They appeared in the human form. The two angels went on to Sodom, while “the Lord” continued speaking with Abraham.

8thdaypriest

Posted

Moses was a mediator and God said He would raise up another mediator just like Moses even from his own people (Deuteronomy 18:15 & 18, Acts 3:22). So yes God spoke to His creation in many different ways in times past but in these last days He is speaking to us through His Son, the other mediator (Hebrews 1:1-2, I Timothy 2:5).

Sometimes our behavior needs time to catch up to our salvation... ::puppykisses::

Posted

With the caveat that Wikipedia is a group project, this is said of archangels:

 
The word archangel is derived from the Greek ἀρχάγγελος (arch + angel, literally chief angel)
 
The Protestant Bible provides names for two angels: "Michael the archangel" and the angel Gabriel, who is called "the man Gabriel" in Daniel 9:21 . Protestants who reject the apocrypha view Michael as the sole archangel, since he is the only one explicitly described as such in the Bible in Jude 1:9. Gabriel is never called an archangel in the Bible.
 
 
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1
 
No angel were ever called the Great Prince except Michael. And no one ever stood for the people but Jesus. 
 
Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Jude v. 9
 
In Jude, Michael in contending with the devil stated, "The Lord rebuke thee." Was this Michael referring to himself in the third person or someone else in the second person?
 
In Judaism prior to the First Advent, Michael the Archangel was thought of as divine. And as such, his name was not spoken. This is still the practice in Judaism when it comes to divine names. You will never hear an Orthodox Jew speak the name of יהוה. I have never heard it in any tradition of Judaism. In fact, your Bible will often not even write it, but will use the word Lord instead. Read carefully and you will note that there are two forms of the word Lord used in the Bible. One is regular and the other has all caps. Other times, יהוה will be changed to HaShem (or The Name) such as in the Siddur (Prayer Book).
 
As mentioned, Michael was considered divine, and as a result, his name was not spoken either. He was simply referred to as "the Word." You can see this in the first chapter of John v. 1-3 when it stated: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
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Posted

With the caveat that Wikipedia is a group project, this is said of archangels:

 

The word archangel is derived from the Greek ἀρχάγγελος (arch + angel, literally chief angel)

 

The Protestant Bible provides names for two angels: "Michael the archangel" and the angel Gabriel, who is called "the man Gabriel" in Daniel 9:21 . Protestants who reject the apocrypha view Michael as the sole archangel, since he is the only one explicitly described as such in the Bible in Jude 1:9. Gabriel is never called an archangel in the Bible.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archangel

 

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1

 

No angel were ever called the Great Prince except Michael. And no one ever stood for the people but Jesus. 

 

Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee. Jude v. 9

 

In Jude, Michael in contending with the devil stated, "The Lord rebuke thee." Was this Michael referring to himself in the third person or someone else in the second person?

 

In Judaism prior to the First Advent, Michael the Archangel was thought of as divine. And as such, his name was not spoken. This is still the practice in Judaism when it comes to divine names. You will never hear an Orthodox Jew speak the name of יהוה. I have never heard it in any tradition of Judaism. In fact, your Bible will often not even write it, but will use the word Lord instead. Read carefully and you will note that there are two forms of the word Lord used in the Bible. One is regular and the other has all caps. Other times, יהוה will be changed to HaShem (or The Name) such as in the Siddur (Prayer Book).

 

As mentioned, Michael was considered divine, and as a result, his name was not spoken either. He was simply referred to as "the Word." You can see this in the first chapter of John v. 1-3 when it stated: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Everything we read of Michael was before Jesus. But now it seems to me that Jesus has one over Michael.

Hebrews 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son”?

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels has He ever said: “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”

Hebrews 2:5 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels.

All throughout the OT we find Jesus in seed form as the seed of the woman, the seed of Abraham and the seed of David. The seed testifies of Jesus' human bloodline but the miraculous conception in the womb of Mary came from the power of God through His Spirit. What part of this is Michael? There is a bridge there that needs to be built. Not only that, we have the man child in Revelation existing at the same time Michael is warring in heaven.

Sometimes our behavior needs time to catch up to our salvation... ::puppykisses::

Posted

Scuba,

Do I understand your position - that God's Spirit came to men during the OT period, in the FORM of "a man". 

So you believe Michael was a manifestation of  God's Spirit ?? 

Is that right?

 

So that would mean "God's spirit" was "the Word" ??

8thdaypriest

Posted

We are doing a bit of quibbling over names. However, Jesus uses many names. In fact, we are somewhat encouraged to know him by many names as Isaiah (9:6) writes, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

 

I have  book in the following link that is a daily devotional that came up with 365 different names and qualities for Jesus. It is called "At the Name of Jesus" by Susan Hornsby. It is written as a devotional and each name is accompanied by the Bible text.

                          >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<<

*****************************************************************************

    And therefore as a stranger give it welcome.
    There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
    Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

       --Shakespeare from Hamlet

*****************************************************************************

Bill Liversidge Seminars

The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism

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Posted

Scuba asked:

 

Why doesn't Luke say it was Jesus who spoke with Moses?

 

Because "Jesus" was the name of the incarnate messenger from heaven.  In the time of Moses, the  messenger from heaven did not exist as an incarnate being.

Gregory

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