Sojourner Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Do you agree or disagree with this quote from Joyce Meyer? "Jesus already died for us, He's already paid for our sins, whether you know it or not every sin that you have ever committed or ever will commit has already been forgiven, all you have to do is receive it - Amen". Quote
LifeHiscost Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 Do you agree or disagree with this quote from Joyce Meyer? "Jesus already died for us, He's already paid for our sins, whether you know it or not every sin that you have ever committed or ever will commit has already been forgiven, all you have to do is receive it - Amen". Except for adding the words from the Word, "whosoever believeth". God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
thx4mercy Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 I suppose a person could read the quote as implying that we don't have to ask forgiveness for sins we commit in the future, that they have already been forgiven. But she may not be saying that. But it could also be understood to mean that provision for forgiveness has already been provided. Quote
Sojourner Posted March 6, 2015 Author Posted March 6, 2015 I got the quote from a promo for an upcoming episode of her tv show on Daystar cable channel, so perhaps it is hard to get the total context from that. Yet I do agree that when a person is born again, all past, present and future sins are forgiven right at that moment. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 all past, present and future sins are forgiven right at that moment. 13…"And you, son of man, say to your fellow citizens, 'The righteousness of a righteous man will not deliver him in the day of his transgression........"When I say to the righteous he will surely live, and he so trusts in his righteousness that he commits iniquity, none of his righteous deeds will be remembered; but in that same iniquity of his which he has committed he will die. ...Ezek 33 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
JoeMo Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 "whether you know it or not every sin that you have ever committed or ever will commit has already been forgiven." I unconditionally agreed with this statement until yesterday. I'm reading John Bevere's "Bait of Satan"; and in the book is a chapter called "Forgiveness - You Don't Give, You Don't Get". It focuses on the following verses: ...and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, 15 but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. (Matt; 6:12-15) "Forgive and you will be forgiven." (Luke 6:37) Parable of the Unforgiving Servant (Matt. 18) "For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved. For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. " (2 Peter 2:20-21) The Soul Who Sins Shall Die. (Ezekiel 18) "But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder! (James 2:18-19) The last 3 references appear to say that your "future" sins can be retained - you CAN lose the salvation you once had - especially due to unforgiveness. So much for "Once saved, always saved". Furthermore, just believing may not meet the criteria. Sounds like true faith WILL produce works (i.e., action speaks louder than words). phkrause 1 Quote
stinsonmarri Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 No I do not believe in Joyce belief and we all who truly understand the truth should know this. You must confess your sins and you must stop sinning in order to be saved! Blessings and happy Sabbath! Quote
Sojourner Posted March 7, 2015 Author Posted March 7, 2015 Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pas That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.’ Quote
Kevin Straub Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 Do you agree or disagree with this quote from Joyce Meyer? "Jesus already died for us, He's already paid for our sins, whether you know it or not every sin that you have ever committed or ever will commit has already been forgiven, all you have to do is receive it - Amen". Yes. This is the basis of the gospel, but it is not the whole story. Ergo...Adventism. Simply, Christ as Second Adam, the NEW MAN, took the condemned race into Himself and annihilated it in His body, giving it a new standing before God, as now uncondemned. The verdict was overturned. Corporately, humanity was redeemed and all sins were dealt with. This is Romans 5. This is an 1888 Waggoner and Jones fundamental. But this is not justification by faith. It is "justification of life" (Rom. 5:18). It is what grants to all who are born a life, at all. A chance to continue for a time as a probationary period. It gives us the day of grace. It is why it is said, every breath we draw is from God and every loaf of bread is stamped with the cross of Christ. I said that it is not the whole story. That is because when accountability comes, the individual makes choices. These are the choices that Second Adam gave us a chance to make by saving all men, who would never have been born but for "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." So, now that every man is saved, God will not renege on it. The sins are dealt with. However, every person has to do with Jesus Christ and the unspeakable gift. Will we, AS INDIVIDUALS, keep the gift? What will we do with Jesus? We can spurn the gift and earn a second condemnation. Those who do so are not re-tried for their sins which have been bought and paid for. They are tried for their rejection of Christ. Their unconfessed sins and impenitent hearts will be the evidence against them. John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. The other thing, and the main point, actually, about choosing Christ, about "receiving" the forgiveness of God, which the evangelicals such as Joyce Meyers love to preach, is that there are consequences. It brings us into obedience to all the commandments of God, not only as to the letter, but in a heart appreciative, "written in our flesh" response of the spirit. This was the advanced light of the 1888 gospel. This is actually the essence of Adventism and its calling to herald the end of the 2300 day prophecy, Dan. 8:14, and proclaim the three angels messages in all their bearings. God's purpose is to bring the great controversy to a close and He needs a final generation who actually embrace the entire gospel which is forgiveness for sin and cleansing from sin, to produce a people that answer Satan's false claim to the entire race. If questioned, the popular evangelical gospel is a false gospel, even though such statements are true, as the foundation of the gospel. They take it to the wrong conclusion: "Jesus did it all, therefore I do nothing but believe He did it all." Sadly, this has become the good news of the Adventist new theology. Fernando Canale, Ph. D., has written of "The Protestantization of Adventism" which is an excellent piece, at http://www.perspectivedigest.org/article/82/archives/17-4/a-close-look-at-the-adventist-mind called, "A Close Look at the Adventist Mind" In closing, I would like to remind everyone again of the well-known statement: "The Lord in His great mercy sent a most precious message to His people through Elders Waggoner and Jones. This message was to bring more prominently before the world the uplifted Saviour, the sacrifice for the sins of the whole world. It presented justification through faith in the Surety; it invited the people to receive the righteousness of Christ, which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. Many had lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine person, His merits, and His changeless love for the human family. All power is given into His hands, that He may dispense rich gifts unto men, imparting the priceless gift of His own righteousness to the helpless human agent. This is the message that God commanded to be given to the world. It is the third angel's message, which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice, and attended with the outpouring of His Spirit in a large measure" (1888 1336.2). Quote Thinking on His Name Mal. 3:16
CoAspen Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 According to the above post....Christ never taught the 'Whole' gospel as outlined in the post. Quote
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted March 7, 2015 Moderators Posted March 7, 2015 From post # 8: You must confess your sins and you must stop sinning in order to be saved! The question of salvation is a different question from that of forgiven sins. God accepts the choices that we have made and will make in the future. One can be forgiven of sin and still chose to live our lives apart from 'God. In that case, God will accept our decision. Quote Gregory
RonP Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 Sounds remarkably like Tetzel's speech when he was selling indulgences. "Still another fabrication was needed to enable Rome to profit by the fears and the vices of her adherents. This was supplied by the doctrine of indulgences. Full remission of sins, past, present, and future, and release from all the pains and penalties incurred, were promised to all who would enlist in the pontiff's wars to extend his temporal dominion, to punish his enemies, or to exterminate those who dared deny his spiritual supremacy. The people were also taught that by the payment of money to the church they might free themselves from sin, and also release the souls of their deceased friends who were confined in the tormenting flames. By such means did Rome fill her coffers and sustain the magnificence, luxury, and vice of the pretended representatives of Him who had not where to lay His head. (See Appendix.) {GC 59.1}" Is there any difference between selling it and a free gift where there is no repentance? As to WHAT she is saying, she is after all, a Babylonian! Quote
JoeMo Posted March 7, 2015 Posted March 7, 2015 All of our future sins are forgiven as long as we put our faith solely in salvation by the Messiah; and accept His grace to both forgive our sins and fill us with an inclination from the inside out to will and to do what He plans for us. Where I am right now, I also think we can turn away from that grace and faith at some point in our lives. What happens to all those future sins that were forgiven? Passages like Ezekiel 18 always give me pause ... Maybe a topic for another thread - I was thinking today about keeping the commandments of God. The thought struck me - were the 10 Commandments the conditions of a covenant between God and humanity in general, or between God and the Hebrews only? The latter seems possible - the conditions the church put on the Gentles in early Christianity seemed much less restrictive (sorry; couldn't think of a better word) than the conditions to which the Jewish Christians adhered. Quote
LifeHiscost Posted March 8, 2015 Posted March 8, 2015 I was thinking today about keeping the commandments of God. The thought struck me - were the 10 Commandments the conditions of a covenant between God and humanity in general, or between God and the Hebrews only? The latter seems possible - the conditions the church put on the Gentles in early Christianity seemed much less restrictive (sorry; couldn't think of a better word) than the conditions to which the Jewish Christians adhered. Just which one or more of the Ten would you feel safe for your neighbor to ignore in their lifestyle? God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
Moderators Kevin H Posted March 8, 2015 Moderators Posted March 8, 2015 Things are subjective and objective. This quote is the objective truth. But we have a subjective response were we are either changed by this fact or reject the fact as God will not force the will. I heard, I believe it was, Jim Ayres say that in Church history that until St. Augustine the church believed what Jesus did on the cross was so powerful that it saved everyone except for those who actively rejected it and saw mission work as letting people know what Jesus did for them. Then starting with St. Augustine it was seen that everyone was lost except for those who actively accept Christ. Quote
Sojourner Posted March 8, 2015 Author Posted March 8, 2015 Since scripture does not contradict itself, then "calling on the name of the Lord" must entail repentance and forsaking of sin, since scripture says one must repent to be forgiven and one must be forgiven before one can be saved.. Yet the scripture does not say that unless you add to it, not unlike the Jehovahs Witnesses when they retranslate Scripture to make it fit in with their theology. Quote
Sojourner Posted March 9, 2015 Author Posted March 9, 2015 When Jesus promised eternal life to the thief next to Him on the Cross, had that thief repented as you describe above? Had the man kept the commandments? Is stealing not breaking the commandments? The man has accepted that what he did was wrong and that he is being justly punished for it. He asks Jesus to remember him when he comes into his kingdom, yet there is not a word here about repentance, nor commandment keeping. Luke 23 40-2 "But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? 41 "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." 42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." Quote
Lineman Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Do you agree or disagree with this quote from Joyce Meyer? "Jesus already died for us, He's already paid for our sins, whether you know it or not every sin that you have ever committed or ever will commit has already been forgiven, all you have to do is receive it - Amen". I agree with Joyce. Jesus, by His death, has made it possible to forgive everyone who has ever sinned, even including all who have not even been born yet. He has offered this gift (forgiveness and salvation) in a "box" and all we have to do is accept the gift and open it ("accept"=trust and "open"=obey. TRUST & OBEY). Refusing to accept a gift does not mean that whatever is in the box is not real. Jesus IS more than willing to forgive us if we ask, right? The forgiveness is already in the box, and it is being offered to us, but we do not have to "receive" it. http://www.bibletimelines.net/article/23/articles-brief-and-to-the-point/steps-to-christ-jesus "The sinner may resist [God's] love, may refuse to be drawn to Christ; but if he does not resist he will be drawn to Jesus." - Steps to Christ, page 27 Quote Visit and Share the BibleTimelines.com URL ! (Explain the Gospel in just a few minutes, or maybe even seconds.)
Lineman Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Justice is getting exactly what we deserve. (which in our case is death) Mercy is not getting the bad that we deserve. (again, death) Grace is getting the good that we do not deserve. (eternal life, NO death) Did you notice that Mercy is not getting the bad that we deserve? We do not get the bad that we deserve because of God's forgiveness (also called mercy). Let's illustrate this: "God's justice, mercy and grace can be compared to the pardon that a governor of a state can give to a guilty prisoner who is facing execution (the punishment of death) for something that he or she actually did. JUSTICE will be served and they will be killed unless the governor has MERCY and pardons (forgives) the prisoner. But if the governor goes on and gives that prisoner not only a pardon, but also total freedom, a huge mansion to live in, and unlimited resources then he has given that guilty prisoner both MERCY & GRACE." "God offers us a pardon. He wants to forgive us and set us free from the results of sin, and He has the legal right to do this because His Son and our Creator, Jesus, willingly came and died so that we would not have to die. Jesus died for us so that we could live, but His death can only be our salvation if we accept it. Just like the prisoner above, we can turn it down or we can accept this pardon that God offers; it is our choice. John 3:16. " - Taken from: http://www.bibletimelines.net/article/16/articles-brief-and-to-the-point/define-grace-what-is-god-s-grace This simple skit may make God's forgiveness (His Mercy) even clearer: http://www.bibletimelines.net/article/361/articles-brief-and-to-the-point/define-grace-what-is-god-s-grace/god-s-grace-skit Quote Visit and Share the BibleTimelines.com URL ! (Explain the Gospel in just a few minutes, or maybe even seconds.)
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