The issue of the Sabbath in the coming conflict

[Robert]

Is the issue of the Sabbath an issue between folks worshiping on Saturday vs Sunday?  No, I do not believe so....

 

As I've stated before the 4th commandment does not link the Sabbath to worship.  Yes, since you aren't working that day it's a good day for church, but that's not the reason for the Sabbath.

 

The Sabbath points to two things:

 

1] God's rest from His perfect creation, which is now fallen and

 

2] God's rest from His perfect redemption "in Christ Jesus".

 

The Sabbath as it points to creation reminds us that He is the creator, not of sin, but perfection.  Therefore the Sabbath protects the believer against false science and their creation of evolution in its various forms.

 

However, the Sabbath also points to a perfect redemption as found in Hebrews chapter 4.  This, I believe, will be the issue in the coming conflict with the Sunday laws.

[Robert]

 

However, the Sabbath also points to a perfect redemption as found in Hebrews chapter 4.  This, I believe, will be the issue in the coming conflict with the Sunday laws.

 

Here's why.  Look at the issue just before Hebrews chapter 4:

 

Heb 3:12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 

13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called"Today," so * that none * of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 

14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, 

15 while it is said, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS, AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME." 

16 For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did notall those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? 

17 And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? 

18 And to whom did Heswear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? 

19 So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.

 

 

So unbelief was Israel's problem in the wilderness.  Paul now brings us to Israel in his time.

 

 

 Heb 4:1 Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had the gospel preached to us, just as they also (the Jews of the Exodus); but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.3 For we who have believed enter that rest,....9 So there remains a Sabbath rest (i.e., a Sabbath keeping) for the people of God. 10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

 

 

Keep in mind that to Paul entering "His Rest" was believing the gospel.  Paul links the gospel received by faith, or justification by faith, with the Sabbath.

 

Weren't the Jews of Paul's day keeping the Sabbath.  Yes, they were keeping the day, but their Sabbath keeping was meaningless because it was a sign of unbelief.  How so?  They kept the 4th commandment, and all the rules added, in order to be saved.  They were not truly resting in God's rest. More later....

 

[Robert]

 Heb 4:1 Therefore, let us fear if, while a promise remains of entering His rest, any one of you may seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed we have had the gospel preached to us, just as they also (the Jews of the Exodus); but the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.3 For we who have believed enter that rest,....9 So there remains a Sabbath rest (i.e., a Sabbath keeping) for the people of God. 10 For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.

 

 

 

From the context what then is God's rest?

 

 Notice that Paul links the gospel with "His rest"....Those who have believed the gospel enter God's rest.

 

What does the birth, life, death & resurrection of Christ (the gospel) have to do with God resting?  From what did God rest?

 

When Christ cried out "it is finished" what did He mean?  He meant that redemption was complete...that it was finished.  It was perfect and therefore God's work of redemption "in Christ" was complete.  The proof?  He rested.....

 

Now, if you believe that you can add nothing to God's perfect work in Christ then the Sabbath becomes a seal of justification by faith.  By not laboring on the Sabbath you are outwardly stating that I can add nothing to God's completed work and all can do is rest in that finished and perfect work.  

[Scuba]

The rest we have in Christ removes the meritorious mindset in all that we do. We don't honor the seventh day in order to be saved, we honor it because we are saved. This is why we are not to judge anyone in what they do on the Sabbath because it's not to be honored with a meritorious mindset.

[JoeMo]

The rest we have in Christ removes the meritorious mindset in all that we do. We don't honor the seventh day in order to be saved, we honor it because we are saved. This is why we are not to judge anyone in what they do on the Sabbath because it's not to be honored with a meritorious mindset.

AMEN! That may be the coolest statement you have made here on CA!

[Scuba]

AMEN! That may be the coolest statement you have made here on CA!

Well, thank you.

[Aliensanctuary]

As I've stated before the 4th commandment does not link the Sabbath to worship.

 

Back in the days of Moses, there were no formal church services, I believe, and no Bibles. Looking up at that huge column of smoke and fire might convince one to obey the LORD's commandments as related by Moses. Despite this impressive sign, the fickle people, so corrupted by Egyptian life, wanted something better: plenty of food and water, and gods of gold.

 

The Sabbath given to Israel points all of mankind to the real Sabbath in the Kingdom of YHVH. There probably won't be any church services then, either.

[Scuba]

Back in the days of Moses, there were no formal church services, I believe, and no Bibles. Looking up at that huge column of smoke and fire might convince one to obey the LORD's commandments as related by Moses. Despite this impressive sign, the fickle people, so corrupted by Egyptian life, wanted something better: plenty of food and water, and gods of gold.

 

The Sabbath given to Israel points all of mankind to the real Sabbath in the Kingdom of YHVH. There probably won't be any church services then, either.

Isaiah 66:22-23 “For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord, “So shall your descendants and your name remain. And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

[Robert]

 

Isaiah 66:22-23 “For as the new heavens and the new earth which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord, “So shall your descendants and your name remain. And it shall come to pass that from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, all flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

 

 

Yes, and this future Sabbath links the earth made new to worship, but the moral law itself does not make this connection with the Sabbath here and now.

[Scuba]

Yes, and this future Sabbath links the earth made new to worship, but the moral law itself does not make this connection with the Sabbath here and now.

 

The foundation of worship is keeping the commandments of God over the commandments of men.

 

Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

 

Mark 7:7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

 

Changing the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day is a commandment of man so our worship is in vain if we follow man.

 

Question - Which is the Sabbath day?

Answer - Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Question - Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

Answer - We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church, in the Council of Laodicea (A.D. 364), transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday. The Convert's Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50, 3rd ed.

 

Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday (Sabbath), but shall work on that Day: but the Lord's Day, they shall especially honour; and as being Christians, shall, if possible, do no work on that day. If however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ. Council of Laodicea (circa 364 AD)

 

"The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., History of the Sabbath, p. 802

 

"Sunday is our mark of authority...The church is above the Bible, and this transference of sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, London, Ontario, September 1, 1923.

[Robert]

The foundation of worship is keeping the commandments of God over the commandments of men.

 

Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

 

Mark 7:7 And in vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

 

Changing the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day is a commandment of man so our worship is in vain if we follow man.

 

Those quotes are not referring to the Sabbath. The 4th commandment is not linked to worship.

[Scuba]

Those quotes are not referring to the Sabbath. The 4th commandment is not linked to worship.

 

Your above statement is built on sand and is very easy to refute if one is sincerely looking for truth. Let me do just a simple research to see if honoring the Sabbath is linked to worship. We have already heard from Jesus Himself how obeying the commandments of God is linked to worshiping God and loving God but let's see what others say.

 

Ten Commandments

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Ten Commandments, also known as the Decalogue, are a set of biblical principles relating to ethics and worship, which play a fundamental role in Judaism and Christianity. They include instructions to worship only God and to keep the sabbath; as well as prohibitions against idolatry, blasphemy, murder, theft, dishonesty, and adultery. 

 

Presbyterian Church

What is Worship?

The Nature of Worship 

We worship God because He commanded us to worship Him. The first four of the Ten Commandments concern worship.

• The fourth commandment tells us to worship the Lord on the Sabbath day. This concrete commandment reminds us that the worship of the Lord is a concrete reality that takes place a very concrete way. All the other commands in Scripture seem to be an elaboration of these four.

[wendys]

Here are two more verses which provide a link between worship and commandment keeping:

 

1Ki_9:6 But if you shall at all turn from following me, you or your children, and will not keep my commandments and my statutes which I have set before you, but go and serve other gods, and worship them:

2Ch_7:19 But if you turn away, and forsake my statutes and my commandments, which I have set before you, and shall go and serve other gods, and worship them;

[Robert]

Come on guys...context!

 

Ex 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work:

 

Now ask yourself, why no work?

 

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. 

 

Answer: You rest as God rested the 7th day.

 

Nothing about worship.  You rest every 7th day because God rested.

 

Next question:  From what did God rest?

 

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 

 

Answer:  God rested because His work of a perfect & sinless creation was complete!

 

That's why God rested.  

 

Therefore when you rest on the Sabbath you are resting as God rested.  You are acknowledging that His perfect & sinless creation is perfect and complete.....That's the context. By resting you agree that God is resting from a perfect & sinless work.

 

But there's a problem....God's rest has been interrupted by the fall of mankind.  Therefore the Sabbath no longer points to a perfect & sinless creation and therefore God no longer is resting from His perfect work because that work has been ruined by the enemy of souls.

[Robert]

 

But there's a problem....God's rest has been interrupted by the fall of mankind.  Therefore the Sabbath no longer points to a perfect & sinless creation and therefore God no longer is resting from His perfect work because that work has been ruined by the enemy of souls.

 

 

 

Proof:  John 5:16

 

For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 

17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now (that is, since the fall), and I have been working."  

18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

 

To the legalistic Jews, Christ was breaking the Sabbath by working.  But remember God the Father and Christ were no longer resting the Sabbath in terms of creation.  God the Father and Christ were working to redeem the fallen race.

 

On the cross Christ cried out "it is finished".  What was finished?  Not creation, but redemption.

 

 "In Christ" the Father has legally saved the human race from under the curse of the law.  That redemption is perfect...That's why you rest the Sabbath.  Therefore the Sabbath points to Christ's perfect redemption.  You rest as God rested because you acknowledge that God's work in Christ is perfect.  You cannot add to His perfect redemption through your good works. See Hebrews chapter 4.

[Samie]

Long before Jesus died on the cross, God the Father said:

 

NIV Ezekiel 20:12 Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy.
 

After Jesus died on the cross, Scriptures tell us:

 

NIV Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 

Sadly, it is widely taught that people have a part in their being sanctified or made holy.  The Sabbath should serve as the constant weekly reminder that God, through Christ, sanctified us, that is, made us holy. Sanctification is God's work FOR man. We are already holy; this is why we are to keep ourselves holy.

 

Just like a child. Mom has already cleaned his face before the school bus arrived. And as she waved her child good-bye, she said, remember to keep your face clean.

 

And as we keep the Sabbath holy, we are constantly reminded to keep ourselves holy.

[Robert]

Long before Jesus died on the cross, God the Father said:

 

NIV Ezekiel 20:12 Also I gave them my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy.

 

NIV Hebrews 10:10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

 

 

Notice that we were made holy through "the body of Jesus Christ".  The Sabbath of Ezekiel's time merely pointed to this future event.

[Samie]

 

 

Notice that we were made holy through "the body of Jesus Christ".  The Sabbath of Ezekiel's time merely pointed to this future event.

 

Don't forget the TENSE of the Ezekiel passage: "I the LORD MADE them holy".

[JoeMo]

"The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., History of the Sabbath, p. 802"

 

You neglected to point out that this statement was made in 1884.  I may be out of line; but it seems the Catholic Church has changed considerably in the past 130 years.  Having spent the first 25 years of my life as a Catholic and having a majority of my family still Catholic, IMO they don't really consider Sabbath vs. Sunday to be an issue any more - kinda like eating meat on Friday.

[Scuba]

"The Bible says, Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day. The Catholic church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., History of the Sabbath, p. 802"

 

You neglected to point out that this statement was made in 1884.  I may be out of line; but it seems the Catholic Church has changed considerably in the past 130 years.  Having spent the first 25 years of my life as a Catholic and having a majority of my family still Catholic, IMO they don't really consider Sabbath vs. Sunday to be an issue any more - kinda like eating meat on Friday.

 

They do because it's in there structure and bylaws. As the end draws nearer you will begin to see the line between those who follow the will of God and those who follow the Beast become more and more defined and distinct.

 

http://w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/homilies/2005/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20050529_bari.html

[Robert]

Don't forget the TENSE of the Ezekiel passage: "I the LORD MADE them holy".

 

"The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." Rev 18:8

 

When was Christ slain?  Not at the foundation, but at the cross around 34 A.D.  

 

In Christ, be it B.C. or A.D., the human race was made holy. In the OT times it was by faith in the coming Savior.  In the NT it is a reality.

[Robert]

 the Catholic Church has changed considerably in the past 130 years. 

 

Really?  The Pope is still regarded as the Vicar of Christ.  He is stilled referred to as Holy Father (which is blasphemy).  He still claims infallibility and on and on.....I see no real change.

[Robert]

You do not keep the Sabbath or any of the  other commandments because you are already saved. You keep them because you have saving faith given through grace , and if you persevere until the end you shall be saved. (Matt 10:22; Obedience is the fruit of faith.)

 

I fully disagree....The fruit of justification by faith is in harmony with God's law, but "in harmony" doesn't mean we are fulfilling the law as Christ did.

 

We can say today that we are 100% saved "in Christ".  As long as our faith endures then we can continue to say I am saved.  Yes, we must keep our faith in Christ in order to be ultimately saved.  That's why it is so important not to side-tracked into legalism and perfectionism.  Salvation is clearly through faith in the doing and dying of Christ.

[Robert]

You understand this means war?     Theological war, that is...

[Robert]

"In harmony with God's Law"?  Why use this euphemism? The Biblical term is obedience.

 

Actually, Ellen White uses it: 

 

The terms of the "old covenant" were, Obey and live: "If a man do, he shall even live in them" (Eze. 20: 11; Lev. 18: 5); but "cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them" (Deut. 27: 26). The "new covenant" was established upon "better promises"-- the promise of forgiveness of sins and of the grace of God to renew the heart and bring it into harmony with the principles of God's law.

 

None of the apostles and prophets ever claimed to be without sin. Men who have lived the nearest to God, men who would sacrifice life itself rather than knowingly commit a wrong act, men whom God has honored with divine light and power, have confessed the sinfulness of their nature. They have put no confidence in the flesh, have claimed no righteousness of their own, but have trusted wholly in the righteousness of Christ.

 

So will it be with all who behold Christ. The nearer we come to Jesus, and the more clearly we discern the purity of His character, the more clearly shall we see the exceeding sinfulness of sin, and the less shall we feel like exalting ourselves. There will be a continual reaching out of the soul after God, a continual, earnest, heartbreaking confession of sin and humbling of the heart before Him. At every advance step in our Christian experience our repentance will deepen. We shall know that our sufficiency is in Christ alone and shall make the apostle's confession our own: "I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing." "God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world." Romans 7:18; Galatians 6:14.

 

Let the recording angels write the history of the holy struggles and conflicts of the people of God; let them record their prayers and tears; but let not God be dishonored by the declaration from human lips, "I am sinless; I am holy." Sanctified lips will never give utterance to such presumptuous words.