The book of Job

[Robert]

Ellen White states, "The history of Job had shown that suffering is inflicted by Satan, and is overruled by God for purposes of mercy." (The Desire of Ages, p. 471)

 

She does not say what that purpose was and therefore we must study the book of Job to find that purpose.

[Robert]

Why would God allow Job to be so badly mistreated, and to go through those terrible crises, without a purpose?  If, as traditionally taught, the purpose was simply proving that Job was righteous is not good enough.  

[Kevin H]

I understand it as one of teaching about making choices and respecting choices even if you don't like them. This is in contrast with "external control psychology" of trying to make others do what we want them to do.

 

The Satan accused God of forcing out loyalty from Job due to the blessings.

 

So God choose to stop the blessings and to place Job in a place where he would have every reason in the world to choose to stop being faithful to God.

 

Job continued to be faithful to God and respected God's choice. He hated God's choice, he wondered why God was choosing to treat him this way, but he respected God's choice and he continued to choose to be faithful.

 

Eliphaz is our typical Augustinian/Calvinistic Fordite evangelical, telling Job about how depraved mankind is. Job's problems come because he must be trusting in his own works instead of the grace of God. If we trust in God's grace God has to respond by blessing us. If we don't trust in God's grace then we force God to pour out his wrath upon us that we disserve.  

 

Zophar is our typical conservative Adventist, where God has a law and Job must be breaking God's law and needs to trust and obey. That if he is faithful to God's law that God is obligated to bless him. Since he is not keeping God's law God is obligated to punish him.

 

Bildad does not offer solutions like Eliphaz and Zophar, but frustrated he is saying "You're doing something wrong and that is forcing God not to bless you. If you were doing right then God is obligated to bless you. So stop saying that God's choosing to do this to you and see what you can do to make God bless you again.

 

Elihu is somewhat like Bildad, not really having an answer but upset that the other 3 could not force Job to realize that he's in the wrong and trying to make Job realize that he must be doing something to make God curse him instead of doing something to make God bless him.

 

God in the whirlwind reminds them of his power and freedom and choices. Then he talks about the Leviathan. The Leviathan was the ancient's world picture of the devil (today we have the horns and pitchfork, they saw him as a 7 headed sea monster). God asks if mere force would force the Leviathan (the devil) into obedience and submission. In the ancient myths there tends to be a god who fights the sea monster, the dragon, the leviathan and gains the victory. Baal, Thor, St. George and the dragon, Beowulf, etc. They use force to overcome the leviathan. Yahweh is different. He does not need to have the physical challenge these others had. He could use power over Satan as easily as throwing a pebble to the ground. But instead of using force, God overcomes the leviathan and brings life through using love and his glory and beauty. The leviathan dies of heart failure when he sees just how loving and beautiful Yahweh really is and this glory scares him to death. And thus yes, God did choose to treat Job this way but that Job and God were using this to overcome the leviathan and that while God's method will allow suffering that it is a better method than mere force and that God will make up for what we have lost.  

[Sojourner]

It becomes easier to understand the book of Job when you realise that it is a parable. not an actual account of historical events. 

[Kevin H]

I'm sorry but in Genesis there is a Jobe who is a descendent of Esau with Ismail's daughter and an early king of Edom. Edom (with Ammon and Moab) represent nations that started out following the truth but eventually apostatizing.  (When Daniel talks about the last king of the North bothering all nations except for Edom, Ammon and the chief among Moab, this evil power does not need to attack them because Satan already has those who apostatized. However when it limits to the chief among Moab, it means that even among those who have apostatized, Satan does not fully control all of them.)

 

Linguists say that Jobe appears to be a translation from ancient Edomite. And Uz was the name of another of Esau's decedents. Thus it appears that the story was most likely real. Occurring while the Hebrews were in Egypt and among the early kings of Edom when Edom was faithful to God represented by good king Jobe.

 

Understanding the implication of the chapter on the Leviathan helps to make the book clearer.

[Robert]

...Satan accused God of forcing out loyalty from Job due to the blessings.

 

So God choose to stop the blessings and to place Job in a place where he would have every reason in the world to choose to stop being faithful to God.

 

Aren't many of us blessed because of our faith in God?  Surely Satan is accusing us before God also.  To be fair, shouldn't God stop His blessing with us to see if we too will stop being faithful?

 

These question are basically rhetorical....In other words I don't buy it.  I don't buy that God allows Satan to come in so we start questioning our faith in God.  That's counterproductive.

 

No, I  believe God allowed this to happen to correct a problem in Job's life.  

[Robert]

Job's problems come because he must be trusting in his own works instead of the grace of God. If we trust in God's grace God has to respond by blessing us. If we don't trust in God's grace then we force God to pour out his wrath upon us that we disserve.  

 

 

Bingo!  This is why God allowed Satan to move against Job.....

[Robert]

 

Elihu is somewhat like Bildad, not really having an answer but upset that the other 3....

 

 

Keep in mind who repents towards the end of the book of Job:

 

1] Job repents (see Job 42:6)

2]  Read Job 42:7-9.  Note, Elihu never needed  to repent, which suggests his counsel was correct.

[LifeHiscost]

It becomes easier to understand the book of Job when you realise that it is a parable. not an actual account of historical events. 

 A scripture that makes one draw that conclusion as opposed to conjecturing?

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[12tribes]

Satan made war in heaven by a war of words. He used false doctrine. Job is a book with correct and incorrect teachings about God in the discussion of Job and his friends. God in the end shows the correct way and explains about Satan(Leviathan). 

[Stewart (SDA)]

Keep in mind who repents towards the end of the book of Job:

 

1] Job repents (see Job 42:6)

2]  Read Job 42:7-9.  Note, Elihu never needed  to repent, which suggests his counsel was correct.

Robert, I also believe that Elihu's counsel and reproofs toward Job were correct. Again and again, Job seems to justify and vindicate himself, but it is Elihu that speaks on God's behalf.

 

"Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God." (Job 32:2)

 

...Elihu spake moreover, and said, "Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?" (Job 35:1-2)

[Stewart (SDA)]

"When the Lord gave to Job a view of His majesty, Job ceased to vindicate his own righteousness. He felt his sinfulness, and humbled himself before the purity and holiness of God. “I abhor myself,” he said, “and repent in dust and ashes.”" (Signs of the Times, Aug, 1898)

[Robert]

"When the Lord gave to Job a view of His majesty, Job ceased to vindicate his own righteousness. He felt his sinfulness, and humbled himself before the purity and holiness of God. “I abhor myself,” he said, “and repent in dust and ashes.”" (Signs of the Times, Aug, 1898)

 

Wow...Is that Ellen White?

[Robert]

Robert, I also believe that Elihu's counsel and reproofs toward Job were correct. Again and again, Job seems to justify and vindicate himself, but it is Elihu that speaks on God's behalf.

 

"Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God." (Job 32:2)

 

...Elihu spake moreover, and said, "Thinkest thou this to be right, that thou saidst, My righteousness is more than God's?" (Job 35:1-2)

 

 

Key verses:

 

Job's self-righteousness:

 

"Let God weigh me (Job) in honest scales and he will know that I am blameless" [Job:31:6]

 

God, through Elihu, rebukes Job:

 

Job 33:8 "But you have said in my hearing-- I heard the very words-- 9 'I (Job) am pure and without sin; I am clean and free from guilt."

 

Job 36:1 Elihu continued: 2 "Bear with me a little longer and I will show you that there is more to be said in God's behalf...

Job's problem:

 

Job 32:1 Then these three men ceased answering Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes. 2 But the anger of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the family of Ram burned; against Job his anger burned because he justified himself before God.

 

Job repents:

 

Job 40:3 Then Job answered the LORD, and said , 4 "Behold, I am vile..." Job 42:6 "Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes"...

 

Job's wealth is restored:

 

Job 42:12 "The LORD blessed the latter part of Job's life more than the first."

 

Conclusion:

 

When God said that Job was blameless, He was presenting Job's view of himself.

[Stewart (SDA)]

Wow...Is that Ellen White?

Yes, Ellen White.

 

"When the Lord gave to Job a view of His majesty, Job ceased to vindicate his own righteousness. He felt his sinfulness, and humbled himself before the purity and holiness of God. “I abhor myself,” he said, “and repent in dust and ashes.”"

 

We have had a tendency, I think, to overstate the idea that Job was "a perfect and an upright man" (Job 1:8), and I think I agree with the conclusion in your preceding post.

[Robert]

 

Conclusion:

 

When God said that Job was blameless, He was presenting Job's view of himself.

 

So the principle at work here is that a believer needs to allow God to justify himself in His Son, Jesus Christ.  If he justifies himself, by his own righteousness (which is filthy rags), sooner or later God will remove His protection and allow Satan access.  For what Purpose?  To humble  the believer caught up in his own righteousness.

 

Note the bold lettering:

 

Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’ 13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’ 14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

 

Job was humbled because he had a habit of  justifying his righteousness, which is self-righteousness, before God.  In other words Job exalted himself.

[Robert]

Here's more of that quote from EGW:

 

The more of the Spirit of Christ we have, the more humble we shall become. When we obtain clear views of Christ, no words of self-exaltation will escape our lips. When the Lord gave to Job a view of His majesty, Job ceased to vindicate his own righteousness. He felt his sinfulness, and humbled himself before the purity and holiness of God. “I abhor myself,” he said, “and repent in dust and ashes.” Yet by the pen of inspiration, God presents Job as perfect and upright, one that feared God and eschewed evil. “There is none like him in the earth.”

 

The part in red lettering is a view different from the one I stated (see note*), but an acceptable one.  What EGW is saying is even though Job was in reality "vile" (that's Job's own words) his position "in Christ" made him "perfect & upright".

 

*   " When God said that Job was blameless, He was presenting Job's view of himself."