Not sure why i'm Irritated

[lazarus]

I'm not sure why this debate is irritating me. (Not a criticism of those posting here. It's good and important info)

 

I am supportive of WO. It's settled in my mind and I see no Biblical prohibition. I have a few of female colleagues who were recently ordained, I was there and I felt the Lords blessing but I'm irritated.

 

As a family we decided we're not going to GC. The kids said there's too much talking, too much walking, too many people, and "Daddy does too much talking to other people". Also "the pool will be nice but we have a pool in Maryland". So it's settled but i'm feeling frustrated and I'm not sure why. I get it, we need to discuss it, it's important on a certain level but the whole situation has me really turned off. Here's stab a some reasons why I'm irritated. In no particular order or importance.

 

1. Isn't the WO fight a proxy for other things?
2. Aren't there more important issues (This is what a recently ordained female pastor said to me).
3. This is politics and not about the Bible and Jesus.
4. I think we''ll fudge the issue anyway.
5. After GC both sides will claim victory.
6. No one will get fired.
7. There won't be a shouting match
8. After GC someone will claim there was apostasy.
9. The poor and needy in San Antonio won't get a look in.
10. Someone will say "no clapping".
11. Some speakers will quote EGW more than the Bible.
12. There will be no drums on stage.
13. All the church leaders will wear suits all the time.
14. Tom will be in a suit most of the time.
15. I don't know.

[Tom Wetmore]

I feel your pain.  I have similar reactions/frustrations over this whole issue.  And for the record, I won't be going to San Antonio.  I will hold down the fort here at home.  And I won't have to wear a suit!!

 

Of your list the proxy idea rings loud and clear.    But as with so many things it isn't so simple as stated.  The question is, "Proxy for what?"  Many things, actually.  And proxy on many levels.   Proxy over fundamentalism.  Proxy over governance.  Proxy over standards of Biblical interpretation.  Proxy for power and authority.  Proxy for doctrinal revisionists. Proxy for political ideology.  Proxy for cultural differences. Proxy for...

[Jeannieb43]

"Power and authority" and "governance."   Those are ideas which Ted seems to dwell on which I feel should never be emphasized in a spiritual, church, organization.   This is a place for WORSHIP, for INSPIRATION, for POINTING PEOPLE TO GOD.   Not any of the worldly types of organizational themes should be dominant. [Although I realize that the organization requires money on which to operate.]

 

I was a denominational employee for the first half of my professional life, beginning right after college and lasting through at least my "mothering" years.   I always made it a rule to attend GC Sessions -- mostly because I became inspired there, and because the leaders all across the world field were mostly my contemporaries, and I knew most of them from college or from my teaching career.   But now, all those my age have died off or at least retired.  But also there's a problem for me -- because our organization seems to have become so preoccupied with NUMBERS, with SCORE KEEPING.   I say, Who CARES how many members each conference has?!   Who cares who is elected president of which (largest) conference....??!    We should spend our convention time in study of the Scriptures, in ministry to the poor on the streets of the city, --and then we should go HOME, and be inspired to do the same things back in our home towns.  

 

My local conference president is a shining example of how we trust God to see us through the financial problems which arise.   Too bad he'll be retiring this year.   He speaks only briefly [in our committee meetings] of the logistical and financial problems our conference is facing, and then brings out Scriptural examples of how God led His people to the brink of a river, but as soon as the priests (who were carrying the ark of the covenant) set foot in the water, those waters parted and they crossed over on dry land.   This is what our leader keeps praying for and trusting God for.   I'm so inspired by him.

 

This organization is led by mortal men and women.   But God is in control.   Let us praise God and trust Him, and continue to pray and study and prepare ourselves for the coming crisis.  It won't be long now, and He who shall come will come, with all His holy angels with Him.   I'm living in expectation of that wonderful event. 

 

San Antonio can proceed without my presence.   But I'll be praying that it becomes a worshipful experience -- unity in THAT respect only; but no "unity" of belief re: WO.   That's not necessary.  Let each conference make its own decision on that count.

 

Well, dear Editor, you can please edit this as much as you please.   I know I was too long-winded.

[Gregory Matthews]

I have a somewhat different perspective:

 

1)  General Conference officials, generally, are elected to administer the Church.  Let them do that job and not compete with local pastors for pastoral care..

2)  Let the administration of the Church be decentralized to lower levels.  There are few administrative decisions that need to be made on the world level.

3)  If a General Conference, as currently held, costs 10 - 15 million dollars consider how there might be other ways to hold it that cost less.

4) Turn the mission of the General Conference to less in telling people what to do and more to providing support, resources and help AS REQUESTED.

 

NOTE:  I am reminded of a recent speaker, from the General Conference, who spoke at a public meeting at the church I attend.  This organization of the GC provides some materials that are available to the Adventist public at large.  A suggestion was made to the speaker that it might be of value to the denomination if those materials were more easily available and if that agency were to develop materials on current subjects of interest to our members.  The response was clear and to the point:  Their primary purpose was to provide materials to General Conference officials, not to the Adventist public.

[whbae]

I have attended a couple of GC sessions many years ago.  I fail to see the benefit of such a meeting.  I sure was impressed by foreign speakers but this same thing can be achieved by some other ways with less cost.  We have financial problems.  If they have to earn the money by themselves to run the meetings, I am sure they will be more effective in  spending money.  This is the same gripe I have about our government who spends money like free water coming to them.

All administrators should be required  taking business management course.

When Mitt Romney who is a business left MA as a governor he left the state with surplus budget, when his successor came he left the state with huge deficit.

All administrators in government of conferences should learn to manage the budget!

[lazarus]

I feel your pain.  I have similar reactions/frustrations over this whole issue. 

 

Good to know that others have a similar perspective. I wish our leaders well as they wrestle with these issues. My prayer is that we are able to find a healthy solution that will move the whole church forward. It's funny how we wrestle with issues after society and moved on to something else. In the 2025 session perhaps the LGBT issue will be center stage.

 

 

And for the record, I won't be going to San Antonio.  I will hold down the fort here at home.  And I won't have to wear a suit!!

 

I have visions of you sneaking into the president's office, sitting in his chair, feet on the desk,  drinking a bottle of Kadem Concord grape wine and blaring BIg Daddy Weave. Of course that's what I would do. 

[Johann]

Tonight I will  be attending our local conference session as a delegate. Not all of the delegates will be there. At least one is in a diffferent country, but will be watching and listening via Skype. This delegatte will vote by sending SMS. This procedure was approved three years ago at the local level. I wonder when our GC sessions will make use of similiar equipment?

[lazarus]

Tonight I will  be attending our local conference session as a delegate. Not all of the delegates will be there. At least one is in a diffferent country, but will be watching and listening via Skype. This delegatte will vote by sending SMS. This procedure was approved three years ago at the local level. I wonder when our GC sessions will make use of similiar equipment?

 

One of my members who works at the GC said that this may be the last session where everyone gathers at the same site . They are exploring having video conferencing apparently. I'm not sure how that would work on such a large scale. Our confernce is using electronic devices for voting and distributing the reports etc. by email.

[Johann]

It takes time to change. These time the procedure was reversed and only delegates on the premises were parmitted to vote, although otherw could follow the procedure on skype.

[aka]

Is it possible for a commoner like me to watch and listen to most of what's going on at San Antonio in July via Skype?

[debbym]

There is a gap in unity on this subject.  however good people feel in their relationship to God, this disconnect persists.  

It seems no efforts are made to close the gap rather just to promote separate  positions.

It is just adamant holding of opposing positions like siblings in an argument, and the parents cannot bring them together.  they are still members of the family, but persist in argument of their position.  Like a grain of sand in the oyster i trust this  irritation will form a pearl.  This disagreement is just the top of the iceberg with all the rest much greater mass unspoken about that likes below. It is  like the proxy reference.