Romans 8:1-4

[Robert]

1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death."

 

In Christ, irrespective of our performance, we stand justified, i.e., no condemnation.  That's good news, in fact it's fantastic good news, but what about experiencing victory over those besetting sins?

 

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 that the ordinance of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit...

 

I am not tempted to punch Mike Tyson.  It's not going to happen.  It's no temptation to me, but I do have my besetting sins and I'm getting tired of repenting again and again; not because Jesus doesn't pardon again and again, but because I'm tired of being a slave to my nature in certain areas.

 

I must confess I do not perfectly understand what it means to "walk in the Spirit"!  Those of you who are spiritual please help.....No joke.  All advice will be considered. 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Robert,

 

 

 who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit...

 

 All advice will be considered. 

 

Many of this forum would be more spiritual, but the following is my assessment. Galatians teaches the same lesson as Romans and the following expresses that the balance will be tipped in the favour of walking a holy life, a life that is not completely governed by the lusts of the flesh.  
Galatians 5:16-18 (KJV): 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Galatians 5:24-25 (KJV): 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

The phrase “so that ye cannot do the things that ye would” could at first reading be understood in two ways, that the flesh is triumphant over the Spirit, or the Spirit is triumphant over the flesh. But in the context of the encouragement of v16, then it is the Spirit that will be the victor.

Could I suggest that the following is a very sensitive and important part of this process and each part needs to be personally appreciated and made a heart-felt conviction and understanding.
Romans 8:2-3 (KJV): 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
It is only when the full realisation of what was accomplished in Jesus, and this is espoused also by following Jesus’ example that the balance between the flesh and the Spirit will start to be tipped in the Spirit’s favour.

Paul gives some indication of his walk, or the life that he led after his conversion and identification with Christ crucified and resurrected.
Galatians 2:20 (KJV): I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

It is easy to fall into the situation of Romans 7 where a knowledge of the Law, or law in general, does not empower a person to overcome the basic lusts of the flesh. Romans 8 moves into the area of the realisation of the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ, where Jesus was victorious over sin and its effects within himself. We can partake of this in measure when we identify with him and allow all of this to transform our hearts and mind. Yes there will be many and even continuous lapses in some areas, but the balance will be tipped and there will be a gradual transformation if the power of the gospel is allowed to work.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

[Lauralea]

Hello Robert,

I totally agree with Trevor.

Looking at how we can receive this experience, it is all about Him- knowing Him better. Some things that have helped me are  spending time reading the Bible in a reflective way, really thinking about what is being said, praying to understand the Bible, and praying for a closer relationship with God. And listening to the promptings of God. I can better understand the Bible when I am listening more reflectively. Also, when I need to decide between things involving morals or ethics, I have a deeper feeling that one choice is better than another and want to be kinder when I am closer to God. When I spend a lot of time with God, I feel really bad if I do something I know is really wrong. This makes it easier to change behaviors and stop doing the same things I do not want to do over and over again. It makes the religious experience not just in my head but in my heart. We can ask God to help us get rid of these besetting sins. We really need His help, and it is kind of like a true principal mentioned in addiction recovery, even though they water down the Gospel.

We realize our life is unmanageable without God. Then we ask Him to help us overcome our sins and lead a holy life. Every day. And we get out of the way. If He tells us to toss the tv or quit going where ever it is, we get out of the way. We don't argue. Speaking of tv movies whatever, say we watch people eat our favorite foods on tv all day long. What are we going to want to do or think about doing? Same with whatever else they are doing. As they say in the computer world, Garbage in. garbage out.

 

It also helps to have friends who are spiritual who want to talk about spiritual things some and are mainly kind decent human beings we respect and care about. We hopefully can find a church where there are people like that.

[Robert]

Greetings Robert,

 

....It is only when the full realization of what was accomplished in Jesus, and this is espoused also by following Jesus’ example that the balance between the flesh and the Spirit will start to be tipped in the Spirit’s favour.

 

 

I believe I have a full grasp of what Jesus accomplished, yet that does not help me with my besetting sins.  A besetting sin is one of habit or impulse.

 

 

We can partake of this in measure when we identify with him and allow all of this to transform our hearts and mind. Yes there will be many and even continuous lapses in some areas, but the balance will be tipped and there will be a gradual transformation if the power of the gospel is allowed to work.

 

Yes, I agree with "a gradual transformation" concept.  Even Ellen White calls Sanctification the work of a lifetime.  Not a work in order to obtain heaven, but a work because growth is progressive.  We will not reach the place we can say that we have attained.  However, as I stated, there are certain besetting sins I would like gone.

[Robert]

Hello Robert,

 

....Garbage in. garbage out.

 

It also helps to have friends who are spiritual....

 

Yes, sure....I'm definitely not interested in most things that use to appeal to me...And I agree with the idea of friends who are spiritual, but some sins are private in nature and I believe do not need to be discussed with "spiritual friends" less it promotes gossip.

 

I have experienced momentary victories over my besetting sins, but I can't tell you how it was done.  Yes, I prayed...but I've prayed before and it doesn't seem God intervened.  

[Lauralea]

Yes, sure....I'm definitely not interested in things that use to appeal to me...And I agree with the idea of friends who are spiritual, but some sins are private in nature and I believe do not need to be discussed with "spiritual friends" less it promotes gossip.  

Yes I agree. I don't mean discussing sins. Just say interesting Bible passages like this one. Ellen White is good to discuss too. Like the chapter The Invitation in Desire of Ages. Or Help in Daily Living in Ministry of Healing. Morris Venden used to give the analogy of riding a bicycle and focusing really hard on not crashing into a tree. It makes it likelier you will hit the tree.  I think he said it was like riding a bicycle too in that the more you do so the less you crash- the more you walk by faith with God the less you sin.

[Robert]

I have experienced momentary victories over my besetting sins, but I can't tell you how it was done.  Yes, I prayed...but I've prayed before and it doesn't seem God intervened.  

 

Here's God's promise:

 

1 Cor 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man (mankind). And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. (NIV)

 

What does this mean?  Anyone?

[Robert]

Ellen White is good to discuss too. 

 

 

Yes, and I've read her best on the subject of besetting sins, yet I still do not fully understand.  Here's her best quote on the subject (in my mind):

 

Many are inquiring, "How am I to make the surrender of myself to God?" You desire to give yourself to Him, but you are weak in moral power, in slavery to doubt, and controlled by the habits of your life of sin....What you need to understand is the true force of the will. This is the governing power in the nature of man, the power of decision, or of choice. Everything depends on the right action of the will. The power of choice God has given to men; it is theirs to exercise. You cannot change your heart, you cannot of yourself give to God its affections; but you can choose to serve Him. You can give Him your will; He will then work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. Thus your whole nature will be brought under the control of the Spirit of Christ; your affections will be centered upon Him, your thoughts will be in harmony with Him. [sC 47]

 

In Romans 7, Paul is speaking of the converted man who, as myself, has not learned to "walk in the Spirit".  Notice Romans 7:22-25

 

For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man (i.e., the converted man). 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind (that is, my will), and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

What Paul is saying in verse 25 is that of myself, without the Spirit, I delight in God's agape love, but without God's Spirit I can do nothing but serve sin.  

 

Here Paul is specifically discussing "coveting" or "lust" (see Romans 7:7).  As a Pharisee he kept the letter of the law, but when he realized that the law condemns sinful thoughts he then realized that he was a transgressor.

 

Of course all outward sin begins with a sinful desire:

 

James 1:14 ...but each one is tempted when, by his own lust, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived (i.e.,  when the mind accepts it), it gives birth to sin....

[Robert]

Morris Venden used to give the analogy of riding a bicycle and focusing really hard on not crashing into a tree. It makes it likelier you will hit the tree.  I think he said it was like riding a bicycle too in that the more you do so the less you crash- the more you walk by faith with God the less you sin.

 

I'll watch this:

 

[B/W Photodude]

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.  James 1:2-4 (KJV)

 

Temptation is often seen as an enemy. But here, James is saying be joyful when you are tempted. This I will admit stumped me for awhile. But when I realized that every time you successfully resist temptation, you validate God and his law. 

 

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:7

 

I believe that the more you study God's word and hear the Holy Spirit, the better you will hear his direction when you come to a temptation moment. I have found that things I easily fell into, sometimes even presumptuously thinking God will forgive me later (winks at my sin), I come to a moment where it is a God or the devil moment. The choice becomes that much clearer in those moments. So, temptation becomes another moment to say to God, the angels, sometimes people around you, "I will follow the Lord."

 

And gaining victories will bring new victories next time around when you continue to walk with the Lord.

[Robert]

I'll watch this:

 

Victory:

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Robert,

I enjoyed Lauralea’s response as it introduced some additional perspectives that help.

 

 

I believe I have a full grasp of what Jesus accomplished, yet that does not help me with my besetting sins.  A besetting sin is one of habit or impulse.

Although we have a broad outline of what was accomplished in Jesus, we may never attain a full understanding and an appreciation of the full power of these things.

For example we may have read the narrative concerning Peter and his involvement in the events before and after the crucifixion. But it is of benefit to come to a full realisation of his threefold denial and then compare this to a proper understanding of the detail of his threefold confession. Added to this, is Peter’s fulfillment of Christ’s threefold commission given at the time of this confession. Peter’s denial could be considered to be like an impulsive sin. Having recently listened to a series of studies on Peter, feeling and sharing with Peter’s experiences does have an impact

Concerning habitual sins, there is a wide range of different bad-habits and we most probably share some, at least at some stage in our lives. Easy suggestions are smoking, drinking and gambling – the first two never took hold in my life, but I had a struggle with a form of gambling for three or more years. One of the real problems with besetting sins of habit is that these sins can gradually dull the conscience and lead to spiritual blindness.

Jesus in Matthew 5 takes hold of the commandment “Thou shalt not kill” and breaks down nearly every aspect of the motives concerning a man and his dealing with his neighbour. In effect he unlocks all the feelings that occur and reveals the attitude and thoughts and action that we should develop to replace these wrong motives. Jesus wisely does not dwell on the subject, when he considers the next commandment mentioned in Matthew 5, but a similar supplanting of wrong thoughts should be individually applied according to our particular need.
 

Yes, I agree with "a gradual transformation" concept.

Ephesians 4:20-32 is instructive concerning this process of replacing bad habits with positive beneficial thoughts and actions. Each verse could be considered, but Paul is only giving a few examples, while establishing a principle. Looking at only one:
Ephesians 4:28 (KJV): Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
Here stealing is replaced by labour, and the hands that used to “lift” things now need to be used positively in this labour, selecting a field of work that is “good”, and instead of taking he must learn to replace this by giving to individuals in need.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

[ChristIsLife]

Hi Robert,

 

There are three general steps for gaining victory over habitual sins.

 

1.       Contemplate. Consider the love of God. The things of earth truly do grow dim in comparison to him. Love for him motivates us to truly desire change.

2.       Decide. Choose to follow God. While it is true that we must have God’s power to actually carry out this choice, at the same time, he must have our decision.

3.       Depend. Rely on a strength outside of what you possess – God’s strength. Get super aggressive with this one. The violent take the kingdom of God by force. Be like Jacob who held on with all his might, crying out, “I will not let you go unless you bless me.”

 

For many years I struggled with habitual sin. Things got progressively worse until I felt crushed by the weight of my guilt. The sky seemed like brass above me, sealing my prayers out of heaven. There was no peace for me. I was lost and I knew it. It was terrifying. One night I was praying that same old prayer, “God, please forgive me.” There in the moonlight as I was slumped beside my couch, a text from childhood came into my mind, “He was pierced for our transgressions. He was bruised for our iniquities. The punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his stripes we are healed.” I had no peace, but here was an offer of peace extended by him who had taken the punishment for me. God’s love and grace melted my heart, and I cried out, “God, I can’t stand to hurt you anymore. Please, help me do what is right.”

 

From that time on, when I was tempted I would get away to a private place, often the bathroom, kneel down on the floor and pray, “God, I do not have it in me to do what is right. If it is left up to me, I am done for. Please, give me your strength, a strength outside of what I naturally possess. Make me willing to be willing. Do not leave me here. I am depending on you to help me.” I would stay there until I felt a resolve come into my heart, and I knew God had given me the victory and I was safe to face the temptation again. Usually it did not take more than five or ten minutes, although there have been a couple of severe battles that lasted many hours.

 

Notice how in my experience, the first step was to contemplate the love of God. When I saw his love, an attraction for him sprang up in my heart. It was then, in comparison to his beauty, that sin truly looked horrendous. The second step was when, based on my attraction to God, I decided to follow him. It was not just a wish for righteousness, not just a half-hearted decision, but a deliberate choice to obey God. Of course I had no more power than at any prior time, but the choice to follow God led to the third step, which was to depend on him. He then gave the grace and power required to actually be victorious. And let me say that victory is even sweeter than I had imagined. To kneel in prayer knowing that I have held nothing back, to live day by day with a clean conscience, to relish the thought of his coming – these rewards are tremendous. Yes, God is still working on me, revealing new sins that need to be surrendered, and new heights that need to be conquered. It is often two steps forward, one step back, but little by little he is granting me similar victories today as I press on to apply his will in my life. This experience can be yours too, if you will contemplate, decide, and depend. 

[JoeMo]

Robert,

My heart goes out to you.  I have things about myself that I have hated since I was a teen (I'm now 65).  Personality quirks; responses to being bullied, spiritual trauma from religious people, habits developed in ignorance or just to be "cool", etc.  Some of these things I currently hate; but they are 40-year-old habits that won't permanently go away.  O yeah - they go away for a while - sometimes even years.  But somehow some of them eventually sneak back in...

 

It is because of these besetting sins that I have to thow myself at the mercy of Jesus - TRUST that He is who He says He is and did/does what He says; believe that HE will help me overcome my issues in His time.  He has helped me overcome many bad habits; and we're working on others.  If my salvation is dependent upon my consistent behavior, I am DOOMED!  It is only by the grace and mercy of God and my utter dependence on it that I have any hope of eternal life.

 

One thing that I find helpful in times of temptation is to "think a different thought".  When I am tempted, instead of thinking "how am I going to resisit?" I think "Jesus, this is Yours"; and think about something different, or start praising, or start reading a "good" book - anything to get my mind off of me and onto Him.  It sometimes works, sometimes doesn't.

[Lauralea]

Robert Said

 

You cannot change your heart, you cannot of yourself give to God its affections; but you can choose to serve Him. You can give Him your will; He will then work in you to will and to do according to His good pleasure. Thus your whole nature will be brought under the control of the Spirit of Christ; your affections will be centered upon Him, your thoughts will be in harmony with Him. [sC 47]

 

To me this is focusing on surrendering to Christ habitually, walking with God before the temptation, so we continue to serve Him when the temptation comes, or when we recognize we are developing an attitude problem we resubmit.

 

 

In Romans 7, Paul is speaking of the converted man who, as myself, has not learned to "walk in the Spirit".  Notice Romans 7:22-25

I appreciate the allusion to Galatians. I think walking in the Spirit is the key. This from Ellen White:

Enoch’s walk with God was not in a trance or a vision, but in all the duties of his daily life. He did not become a hermit, shutting himself entirely from the world; for he had a work to do for God in the world. In the family and in his intercourse with men, as a husband and father, a friend, a citizen, he was the steadfast, unwavering servant of the Lord....PP 84-85

 

For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man (i.e., the converted man). 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind (that is, my will), and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

What Paul is saying in verse 25 is that of myself, without the Spirit, I delight in God's agape love, but without God's Spirit I can do nothing but serve sin.  

 

Here Paul is specifically discussing "coveting" or "lust" (see Romans 7:7).  As a Pharisee he kept the letter of the law, but when he realized that the law condemns sinful thoughts he then realized that he was a transgressor.

 

Yes and I think he is saying the 2 natures remain. Walk in  the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. Vandeman used to say that when you fill your mind with good things, many of them spiritual, rather than the other kind, you are not "feeding the tiger" of our fallen nature. We will continue to have a fallen nature until Jesus comes. But we need to walk in the Spirit. Paul said, I die daily. Maybe he wasn't tempted to get drunk but he might have been tempted to think "Oh man, shipwrecked again..."

 

Of course all outward sin begins with a sinful desire:

 

James 1:14 ...but each one is tempted when, by his own lust, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived (i.e.,  when the mind accepts it), it gives birth to sin....]

Yes its out fallen nature clamoring for whatever.

 

Interesting thoughts. Thanks for sharing the Venden sermons- did not know they were online. I did not believe righteousness by faith was the Third Angel's Message the first time I heard him. I fell asleep and had a nightmare, woke up and studied and found it was as he said.

 

 

[Lauralea]

 

Notice how in my experience, the first step was to contemplate the love of God. When I saw his love, an attraction for him sprang up in my heart. It was then, in comparison to his beauty, that sin truly looked horrendous. The second step was when, based on my attraction to God, I decided to follow him. It was not just a wish for righteousness, not just a half-hearted decision, but a deliberate choice to obey God. Of course I had no more power than at any prior time, but the choice to follow God led to the third step, which was to depend on him. He then gave the grace and power required to actually be victorious.

I agree we need to focus on God and not primarily on sin because He gives us the power to overcome sin. The law is our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ, or is often compared to a mirror in SDA circles. It shows us what is wrong but cannot cleanse us; only Christ can do that. We need to be motivated by love for God and not merely dislike of our sins. We are to hate sin, but not just because we look better when we are slimmer, say, but because of what sin does to God. I realize maybe that is not my main motivation these days, but it needs to be.

[Robert]

 

For many years I struggled with habitual sin. Things got progressively worse until I felt crushed by the weight of my guilt. The sky seemed like brass above me, sealing my prayers out of heaven. There was no peace for me. I was lost and I knew it. It was terrifying. One night I was praying that same old prayer, “God, please forgive me.” 

 

Brother/Sister, I must disagree here.  You weren't lost, you were perhaps having the experience of Romans 7.  The first words to the man of Romans 7 is found in Romans 8:1"there is no condemnation" to those who in Christ through faith.  Only when you have the assurance of salvation, obtained in Christ's holy history, can you progress in your Christian walk.

[ChristIsLife]

Brother/Sister, I must disagree here.  You weren't lost, you were perhaps having the experience of Romans 7.  The first words to the man of Romans 7 is found in Romans 8:1"there is no condemnation" to those who in Christ through faith.  Only when you have the assurance of salvation, obtained in Christ's holy history, can you progress in your Christian walk.

 

Romans 8 is very clear that the freedom from condemnation is for those who "walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1, KJV; Romans 8:4. We cannot be saved while we walk after the flesh, or in other words, indulge in habitual sins. That is why in Romans 7:24 Paul cried out, "Oh wretched man that I am, who will deliver me from this body of death?" 

 

We in the Adventist church emphasize that we are saved by faith, by believing in Jesus, just as John 3:16 says, "Whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." When John recorded Jesus saying, “Whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life,” he tied eternal life with believing. Therefore a better understanding of what ‘believing’ meant to John can be deduced by comparing other passages where he described how to get eternal life. These texts provide synonyms for what it means to believe.

 

Eternal life is found by...

• Taking in the Holy Spirit. John 4:13-14; John 7:37-39
• Hearing the words of Jesus and believing the one who sent him. John 5:24
• Doing what is good. John 5:28-29
• Coming to Jesus. John 5:39-40
• Eating Jesus' flesh and drinking his blood, that is, his Spirit, by internalizing his words. John 6:54-58, 63
• Hearing Jesus' voice and following him, like sheep follow their shepherd. John 10:27-28
• Hating one's life in this world; following and serving Jesus. John 12:25-26
• Hearing and keeping Jesus' sayings. John 12:44-50
• Allowing Jesus to wash oneself. John 13:8
• Knowing the Father and Jesus. John 17:3
• Doing God’s will. 1 John 2:17
• Having the Son. 1 John 5:12
• Being in the Father, by being in his Son. 1 John 5:20
• Overcoming and keeping Jesus’ deeds unto the end. Revelation 2:7, 26

 

Based on these texts a clearer picture emerges of what Jesus meant in John 3:16. The quality of faith or belief that leads to eternal life is one that involves internalizing Jesus’ teaching. His words are alive, full of the Holy Spirit. When we take his words in, we take his Spirit in, and his Spirit then works marvelously within us to do all that he desires. Many think that belief in Jesus amounts to a mere mental confidence that Jesus will grant us eternal life. Sadly, those who believe this way are trusting in an anchor that will fail. Unless they repent they will be among that class described by Jesus in Matthew 7:22-23, "Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons, and in your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you who practice lawlessness.'" 

[JoeMo]

ChristIsLife presents a quite comprehensive list of how to find eternal life.  It sounds like a lot of "works".  It's not really.  In simplifying the list, I see just 3 things:

 

1. Believe that Jesus is who He says He is and that He did what He said He did (reconcile us to God).  This is the main prerequisite for eternal life.  Without it, the next two are meaningless.

2. Seek an intimate and trusting relationship with God by talking to Him and listening to Him.

3. Show God how much you love Him by doing "nice" things for Him (treating others with love and grace, doing other things that make Him happy - like learning and doing His will)

 

Not that God needs us to do His work or needs us to be happy.  But I do think He gets kinda tickled when we do things for Him out of love.  Love for God and our neighbor covers a multitude of sins.

[Robert]

Romans 8 is very clear that the freedom from condemnation is for those who "walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." Romans 8:1, KJV; 

 

 

No sir!  That is an added text in the KJV not in the original manuscripts.

 

8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (NASB)

 

Otherwise the man of Romans 7 is lost, but he clearly states,  ""What at a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

 

The man of Romans 7, who is beset with sin, loves God's law, but finds himself failing in terms of the spirituality of the law.  Is there any condemnation?  Romans 8:1 says no.....

 

Why?  Romans 8:2 because in Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 

 

"In Christ" the man of Romans 7 has been legally redeemed from both the 2nd death and the sin nature.  

[ChristIsLife]

 

No sir!  That is an added text in the KJV not in the original manuscripts.

 

 

Some of the Greek manuscripts have the statement in Romans 8:1, some do not, hence the differences between Bible translations. Whichever translation may be preferred, verse 4 still clarifies that God considers those as righteous (not condemned) who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 

 

The Romans 7 man is saved when he enters into the Romans 8 experience. The Romans 8 experience is one of being set free from the law of sin and death. The law of sin and death is a way to describe the experience of one who desires to do good but fails to do so when temptations come. As it says in Romans 7:21, "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me." Romans 8 reveals how we can escape the terrible experience of wanting to do right but continually failing. We escape because of the power of the Spirit dwelling in us. 

 

Those who continue to live according to the flesh, or in other words, the Romans 7 experience, will die. Romans 8:12-14 says, "So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh-- for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God."

 

John conveyed the same concept when he wrote, "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him sins; no one who sins has seen Him or knows Him. Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother." (1 John 3:4-10) 

 

It is true that we are not saved by attaining to a certain amount of works, and there is also a safety net for the true believer should that person fall. However, the part we have to play in our salvation is exhibiting the right attitude. The all-important attitude is this: Out of the love in our hearts for God we must wholeheartedly seek to discover and apply his will, depending on him for the strength to actually implement it. This attitude is what is meant by repentance. God then works in us in response to our faith to grant us the required strength to follow him. We must have his power, but he must have our decision. On the one hand, trying to do God's will without depending on him for strength is legalism. On the other hand, relying on God to save us without wholeheartedly seeking to know and do his will is what some have termed 'cheap grace.' It is actually no grace at all, but rather presumption. We must have both our part and God's part to make the process of salvation complete. 

 

When we have the right attitude and God is working in our lives, victories will follow. I am not saying we will become sinless in the sense that we will never err, but there is an experience where we continually have the right attitude, ever pressing on to more fully implement God's will in our lives. If we have the right attitude, we will fall for the same sins less and less, and we will discover new aspects of his will that we will also apply. If we are regularly falling for the same sins, it is an evidence that something is terribly wrong in our experience with God. If that is our condition, it is time to contemplate, decide, and depend, as I mentioned in a previous post. 

[Robert]

The Romans 7 man is saved when he enters into the Romans 8 experience.

 

Absolutely not! Romans 8:1 is a continuation of Romans 7.  Romans 8:1 begins by stating that there's no condemnation to those who faith is in Christ irrespective of one's performance. If you make performance the litmus test then you must be as perfect as God is perfect.  See Matt 5:48.

[Robert]

Those who continue to live according to the flesh, or in other words, the Romans 7 experience, will die. 

 

 

Then you will die because you are experiencing Romans 7.  If not then you should be able to stand before God's holy law and exclaim I'm am perfect in every detail.  Remember that the law is summed (see Gal 5:14) in one sentence:  "You shall love your neighbor as you love yourself"

 

What does that mean?  1 Cor 10:24  "Let no man seek his own, but every man another's wealth."

 

Self-seeking, according to 1 Cor 13:5, is sin.  We are all guilty of this (for those who know the spirit of the law).  The law of God demands only "agape" love.  Self-love is synonymous with self-seeking and it out of harmony with God's law.  Therefore to be perfect you must live Christ's life of total self-denial. He lived not for himself, but others.  There was no self-seeking in His life to the point of homelessness (see Luke 9:58). That's agape.

[Robert]

John conveyed the same concept when he wrote, "Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness. You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin. No one who abides in Him (practices) sins....

 

A practiced sin is one the Spirit of God has convinced you of and you persistently refuse to repent of it.....It must not be confused with a besetting sin or sins of repetition. 

[LifeHiscost]

A practiced sin is one the Spirit of God has convinced you of and you persistently refuse to repent of it.....It must not be confused with a besetting sin or sins of repetition. 

A practice is more often about something you're trying to get better at in the doing.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves!