The Myth of Non-Violence

[lazarus]

Non-violence is a comforting and noble idea but violence has been a key part of every movement for and of change in earth's history. For good or for bad, violence acts are an accelerant in the process. On a societal level there is no real lasting change without violence.

 

Edited May 4, 2015 by lazarus

[Bravus]

There's a very nice piece by Ta-Nehisi Coates from the past few days on this. Rather than try to paraphrase, I'll dig it up.

Here's the key piece:

When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con.

Here's the link to the whole piece: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/nonviolence-as-compliance/391640/

[Sojourner]

Yet Violence also does not acheive peace, the Iraq wars, North Korea, Race problems of the 1960's all had / have their dose of violence and it has achieved nothing at all... Trying to motive someone with violence will usually only result in conflict that has no real ending.

Yet in Rwanda they made progress to peace with the renouciation of violence and people from both groups seeking forgiveness from the other from some of the most horrific brutality shown via the media in our modern age.

[lazarus]

Yet Violence also does not acheive peace,

​The goal of violence is not peace but compliance, change, retribution, conquest etc. If you look at it this way violence has a good track record.

[Outta Here]

So long as there are savage men (and women--I don't mean to be exclusionary), violence will be necessary for societal change. But only love will change the savage beast within us all. 

[LifeHiscost]

​The goal of violence is not peace but compliance, change, retribution, conquest etc. If you look at it this way violence has a good track record.

​As I'm looking at some immediate historical evidence of violence both in Baltimore and New York City, I'm wondering what would be the end that would indicate a good track record?

38"You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' 39"But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40"If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.…Matthew 5

7And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, 8and they were not strong enough, and there was no longer a place found for them in heaven.…Revelation 12

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

Edited May 4, 2015 by LifeHiscost

[phkrause]

Sadly we will not see nonviolence till Jesus comes. There is nothing that indicates that violence will ever end, it will only get worse as prophecy says in the Bible. What a sad commentary of this, that we witness each and every day. The only end is for our Savior to come sooner than later!!

[LifeHiscost]

Sadly we will not see nonviolence till Jesus comes. There is nothing that indicates that violence will ever end, it will only get worse as prophecy says in the Bible. What a sad commentary of this, that we witness each and every day. The only end is for our Savior to come sooner than later!!

​ Even so come Lord Jesus!

" 12"Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me....Revelation 22

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Bravus]

Interestingly, over here in reality, violence is as low as it has ever been at any time in human history.

Don't mistake the perception for the reality.

[lazarus]

So long as there are savage men (and women--I don't mean to be exclusionary), violence will be necessary for societal change. But only love will change the savage beast within us all. 

​I'm puzzled by this. Are you saying that all people who engage in violence to bring about change are savage? Surely not. That would mean that many great men of every nation and time in history were savage. George Washington?

As I'm looking at some immediate historical evidence of violence both in Baltimore and New York City, I'm wondering what would be the end that would indicate a good track record?

I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about NY.

The point is that violence has a good track record of producing change. It's more effective that non-violence. Governments know this why the use it so much. The riots in Baltimore will act as an accelerant in Civil Rights 2.0. The whole world is paying attention again to the larger issues involved in the death of Mr Gray.

Sadly we will not see nonviolence till Jesus comes. There is nothing that indicates that violence will ever end, it will only get worse as prophecy says in the Bible. What a sad commentary of this, that we witness each and every day. The only end is for our Savior to come sooner than later!!

Interestingly, PK, the second coming will be a very violent event. God will act very violently to bring about the change he desires in this world. The goal is to bring peace and justice but God will be violent nonetheless.

Edited May 5, 2015 by lazarus

[Outta Here]

​I'm puzzled by this. Are you saying that all people who engage in violence to bring about change are savage? Surely not. That would mean that many great men of every nation and time in history were savage. George Washington?

 

There is a savage beast within us all (even the great men you speak of) and until love changes that savagery, violence will always be the catalyst to societal change.

[LifeHiscost]

There is a savage beast within us all (even the great men you speak of) and until love changes that savagery, violence will always be the catalyst to societal change.

​While savagery is used by mankind as a method to solve problems, that problem developed by the master of deceit and was not part of the universe's norm until he tried to take over the throne of the King of the universe. While it may appear as if violence originated with God, the fact that the world is continuing in the same vein reveals the patience and love of God Who is allowing it to continue until all will see the archenemy's flawed effort to wrest God's kingdom away from Him is not only futile but will eventually wil be totally removed at the full recognition by all, both believers and unbelievers.

…9For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father....Philippians 2

…43"Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word. 44"You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45"But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me.…John 8

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[phkrause]

 

​Interestingly, PK, the second coming will be a very violent event. God will act very violently to bring about the change he desires in this world. The goal is to bring peace and justice but God will be violent nonetheless.

​I agree Lazarus and when its all over and done, and we are in the earth made new, there will finally be peace or nonviolence forever and ever. Praise the Lord!!