Australian racial violence

[Neil D]

[:"blue"]Ok, all you Ozzies....This article you are gonna have to explain...What's going on down there and why are your people rioting? I am hearing some things but I need some confirmation from people down there in the country....- neil [/]

Police powers enhanced in crack down; attacks reported in other cities

SYDNEY, Australia - The racial unrest that broke out in Sydney’s beachside suburbs over the weekend has spread to two other large Australian cities, where people of Middle Eastern descent were assaulted by whites, police said Tuesday.

In New South Wales, where Sydney is located, lawmakers scheduled an emergency session of the state Parliament to consider legislation cracking down on the rioters who rampaged through the city’s suburbs for two straight nights, the region’s premier said.

Seven people were injured and 11 arrested after youths rioted in the suburbs Monday night, smashing the windows of stores, homes and parked cars. The youths appeared to be of Middle Eastern descent, leading police to believe the destruction was in response to racially fueled attacks on a Sydney beach a day earlier.

Calling the rioters “ratbags,” New South Wales premier Morris Iemma said police would be given special “lockdown” powers to stop convoys from forming and driving into communities to carry out acts of retribution. He also said he would urge lawmakers to pass legislation toughening prison sentences for rioting offenses.

A man threatens police at Cronulla Beach in Sydney, Australia, on Sunday after ethnic tensions erupted into running battles between police and thousands of youths, many chanting racial slurs.

Opposition lawmakers have already called for tough new laws and are expected to support the legislation. The state Parliament session is scheduled for Thursday.

“I won’t allow Sydney’s reputation as a tolerant, vibrant international city to be tarnished by these ratbags and criminals who want to engage in the sort of behavior we’ve seen in the last 48 hours,” Iemma said.

He added that rioters had “effectively declared war on our society and we won’t be found wanting in our response.”

The rioting began Sunday on Cronulla Beach when about 5,000 white youths, many drunk and wrapped in Australian flags, attacked people believed to be of Arab or Middle Eastern descent after rumors spread that Lebanese youths had assaulted two lifeguards earlier this month.

Police, who had stepped up patrols on the beach after learning of cell phone text messages urging people to retaliate for the attack on the lifeguards, fought back with batons and pepper spray.

Carloads of young Arab men then struck back in several Sydney suburbs, fighting with police for hours and smashing dozens of cars with sticks and bats, police said. Thirty-one people were injured and 16 arrested in the first day of unrest.

On Monday, police said they discovered weapons including firebombs and rocks on the roofs of some houses in the beachside suburb of Maroubra. Some of those arrested were armed with machetes and baseball bats.

Spreading to other cities?

Elsewhere, Australian Broadcasting Corp. radio reported Tuesday that a family of Middle Eastern origin was attacked in the western city of Perth by a group of 11 white men, who threw eggs, shouted abuse and kicked their garage door.

The 42-year-old father, who did not want to be identified, said his family was badly shaken by Monday night’s incident.

“I don’t know if we were mistakenly identified,” he said. “What I definitely know is it was something linked to the escalation in New South Wales.

[Naomi]

Interesting .... I thought things like that only happened in .............. oh, well, it's pretty sad no matter where it happens.

[Nan]

Yes it is happening and the State politicians have been recalled from their Christmas break to make laws to give the police more powers to deal with the situation - things like the ability to temporarily close pubs and bars where the combatants are fuelling their aggression with alcohol (and I am not saying the Muslim youth are doing that, I have no knowledge on that topic at all).

Over the 70s and 80s and into the 90s there was a large scale migration of Lebanese people, both Muslim and Christian, into this country. They have settled mostly in the main cities and in particular in SW Sydney. It seems to be the children of these settlers, young men born here, who are involved in a lot of the problems.

Several years ago there was a series of gangrapes of Australian girls in SW Sydney and subsequently the long term jailing of a number of Muslim Lebanese. This raised the community anger/awareness levels of potential problems.

The federal parliament has recently enacted antiterrorism laws, including some on 'sedition' that a lot claim is infringing the traditional Australian right to free speech.

Of course this is a superficial analysis, other more deepseated problems exist. But there has been a growing distrust between some members of the general community and the Muslims 'of Middle Eastern appearance'.

It is claimed that for years groups of these youths have gone to Cronulla, ironically the only Sydney beachside suburb with a railway station close to the beach, and done various young male things that have considerably annoyed the local populace.

Things came to a head 10 days ago when a couple of young volunteer beach lifesavers were assaulted by a large group of 'young men of Middle Eastern appearance' after some sort of argument.

To attack the lifesavers, who as a group are Australian folk heroes, lit a match and the powder keg is exploding. Certain Causasian groups have decided to seize their beach and suburb back, and there have been lots of various inflammatory text messages and emails circulating, announcing a 'meeting' which was to occur last Sunday at the beach. It was this 'meeting' that started what has been reported as race riots, and then more problems have arisen in neighbouring suburbs since.

This is a superficial and general summation only. Various community groups are trying to cool things off. Various other right wing, white supremacist types are trying to use the situation for their own ends. Last night I heard a report of Muslim women, including the principal of a Muslim school, telling the mothers to lock up their teenage sons for the evenings.

The catch cry on the TV current affairs programs is 'lack of respect'. The situation is serious, and we are no more immune here than other parts of the world. We hope and pray it does not reach the proportions of the recent French riots.

[aldona]

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politicians have been recalled from their Christmas break to make laws to give the police more powers to deal with the situation

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why am I not surprised???

For a week leading up to the riots, it was well publicised that the riots were going to take place. Phone text messages were circulating, urging people to "reclaim our beach" and "bash the wogs" etc, and specifying the time and place where the riots were to take place. The more right-wing talk-back radio commentators fanned the flames and milked the story for all it was worth.

5000 drunken thugs descended on Cronulla beach. Members of the "Australia First" party (linked to white supremacist groups) hand out racist leaflets and help set the mood even more by HANDING OUT FREE BEER!!! (I thought there were laws about drinking liquor in public places, especially on the beach!)

Hundreds of police, including police on horseback, and others with full riot gear, tear gas and capsicum spray, stand back and do NOTHING. (Except actually removing injured victims once they have been bashed). But later that night, when crowds of Middle Eastern youths gather at the Lakemba mosque because they hear a rumor that the mosque is going to be attacked, the cops swing into action and we see footage of young Lebanese men lying face down on the ground with guns pointing at their heads. Questions start to be asked, such as "why not earlier today, at the beach?"

And the next day someone from the State Government gets on the radio and says that, of course, we need stronger laws to deal with this kind of incident...when the current laws were not even used...

...well, it just does not add up.

To the idiots on both sides involved in these riots...well done, take a bow. You have undone decades of hard work by law-abiding citizens of all races and religions to try to live peacefully with their neighbors. You have also proven that it doesn't take much to break the thin veneer of civilization that covers the festering undercurrent of racism in every society.

And to the Australian government, whose complete and utter lack of leadership and thinly veiled racist propaganda has fuelled this fire, and who is now scoring cheap political points from it...we are not all stupid...we can see right through you, and not all of us are going to fall for it. (there - go ahead and arrest me under the new sedition laws.)

aldona

[aldona]

A selection of comments from newspaper columns, editorials, letters to the editor and other commentary.

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where is our "wonderful" prime minister in all of this?. Why has he not spoken out and condemned this disgusting and devisive behaviour? His continued silence indicates tacit approval of the racist thugs behaviour.. attitudes and behaviour like this (from all sides) have no place in this day and age.

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On the day the riots happened, both (Prime Minister) Howard and (Opposition Leader) Beazley went to ground and refused to make any comment, all while every ordinary citizen, the police, religious leaders and every Tom, Dick & Harry were putting their $0.02 worth in. Then when Howard did surface the next day, his first comments were to the effect that the riots had nothing to do with race and that there was no racism in Australia.

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TEXT messages and emails urging gangs to muster for rampages in and around Sydney continued to be widely circulated yesterday, as police announced a taskforce would investigate the use of phones to incite violence.

Residents of Sutherland Shire yesterday reported receiving several messages a day, including one purportedly intercepted from Lebanese gangs that threatened to "exterminate the enemy at Cronulla". Emails were also sent announcing plans to attack Terrigal, Wollongong and Bondi this weekend.

A Cronulla resident, Cameron Johnston, said he had received about three or four texts a day.

"You are getting text messages from people you don't even know," he said. "The next day I would ring the number and it was disconnected. [i have] no idea where it came from. I don't know where they're getting my number."

The Minister for Police, Carl Scully, said a 36-person taskforce was investigating the use of mobile phones and could order arrests of those who had incited violence.

Under the Commonwealth criminal code, anyone who uses phones to threaten, menace or offend another person can be jailed for up to two years.

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Race attacks spread to Perth, Adelaide

December 13, 2005 - 6:42PM

Attacks on a Middle Eastern family in Perth and a Lebanese Australian taxidriver in Adelaide have been linked to Sydney's race violence.

In an alarming sign Sydney's race-fuelled problems may be spreading, a family of Middle Eastern origin was attacked in Perth by a group of 11 Caucasian men, who threw eggs, shouted abuse and kicked the garage door.

The 42-year-old father of the Kewdale family, who does not want to be identified, said his family was badly shaken by last night's incident.

"I don't know if we were mistakenly identified," he told ABC Radio.

"What I definitely know is it was something linked to the escalation in NSW."

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And now we have churches being burnt.

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Sydney church fire 'suspicious'

December 14, 2005 - 6:40AM

A fire that destroyed a church in Sydney's inner west is being treated as suspicious, police say.

The blaze broke out in the Uniting Church, on the corner of Helena and Harrow Roads, in Auburn about 1.30am (AEDT) today.

It took about 30 firefighters up to two hours to control the blaze, which is still burning in small pockets this morning.

It follows two days of violent assaults, and smashed car and shop windows during violent ethnic clashes in Sydney.

It is not known whether the fire, located near an Islamic centre, was linked to the violence.

The cause of the blaze is unknown, but it is being treated as suspicious, a police spokesman said.

A crime scene has been established and inquiries into the blaze are continuing

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[Neil D]

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Yes it is happening and the State politicians have been recalled from their Christmas break to make laws to give the police more powers to deal with the situation - things like the ability to temporarily close pubs and bars where the combatants are fuelling their aggression with alcohol

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Excuse me for being a dim-witted ninnyhammer, but why are you not on the phone or writing letters to your congressman, explaining your views????? How come many Ozzies are not down there looking for more equality among the races??? How come the Ozzies are not outraged by the injustice for non-whites?

Ok, I am sorry for the embarrassing questions....but does'nt anyone down there care???

[Bravus]

I think a lot of people are, but I also think a lot of people have bought into the Howard government's politics of fear and xenophobia, and really do think foreigners (i.e. anybody who looks or sounds different, even if they're actually second or third generation Australians) are coming to get them...

[Dr. Shane]

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xenophobia

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What is this?

[Stan]

.

[Dr. Shane]

I guess that says something positive about America that an American didn't know the meaning of the word. Goes to reason since we are a land of immergrants.

[Bravus]

Heh, no, it's an irrational fear of warrior princesses. <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[lazarus]

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Neil D said:

Excuse me for being a dim-witted ninnyhammer, but why are you not on the phone or writing letters to your congressman, explaining your views????? How come many Ozzies are not down there looking for more equality among the races??? How come the Ozzies are not outraged by the injustice for non-whites?

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The dominant group in most countries generally doesn't speak up for the interests of the minorities. The minorities themselves have to complain, demonstate, shout, riot, burn down, kill etc. to get noticed and to get justice.

Equality in America had to be wrestled from the grip of the white mans hand!

Neil, you are assuming that many Austrailians are not sympathetic to the views of the white rioters. After all it is their country...they discovered it.....those immigants causing all trouble.

[Neil D]

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The dominant group in most countries generally doesn't speak up for the interests of the minorities. The minorities themselves have to complain, demonstate, shout, riot, burn down, kill etc. to get noticed and to get justice.

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You got that right....But there are some of us who do care, some who are in the majority, who do care about the minority. And the reason why, is because we see the minority as human.....just like us but with a different color...Now I know that that thought is am irrational, over generalization maybe even a bit immature in judgement, but damn it, Lazarus, that thought has gotta lodge in the heads of some whiteys somewhere.

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Equality in America had to be wrestled from the grip of the white mans hand!

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Indeed....and we see the vestiges of the oppressed black man even today in America...I wish it were not so, but it's still there...

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Neil, you are assuming that many Austrailians are not sympathetic to the views of the white rioters. After all it is their country...they discovered it.....those immigants causing all trouble.

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Perhaps my information is wrong, Lazarus, but it is my understanding that the whites can protest, but when the non-whites do the same, police come in with riot gear and tear gas....

I agree with Nan and Aldona...the leadership is making hay out of this and Austrailia is a racist country, as racist as South Africa....And that is a damn shame.

You Ozzies may not agree with my assesment, but I dare say that you are seeing the tip of the ice berg. If you all don't take action now, and write to your congress man to be a man and stand up to racism, your leadership will sow seeds of contempt such that you will regrete...and your children will also. Mark these words....

[Nan]

Neil I strongly disagree that Australia is "as racist as South Africa". There are elements who would like to get rid of the recent immigrants - forgetting that their forbears were immigrants once too. But we do not have discrmination enshrined in law here, and have not had such for many years. In fact, if the Aboriginal issues are put to one side, I am not sure there have been any discriminatory laws against immigrants, certainly not in my adult memory.

(The Aboriginal story is another one, I will not go into that here - some of it is very shameful for us Whites.)

Part of the perceived problem here is that if the migrants would let Australians get on with their lives, the Australians would be happy to let the immigrants get on with theirs. The flashpoint has come in a suburb where the locals have complained for years about "young men of Middle Eastern appearance" who come to the beach and cause trouble with the people and families just trying to enjoy it.

There are other suburbs in Sydney, a long way from Cronulla, where such people have been notorious for gate crashing parties for some years. Granted that is a past time for other racial groups including the Caucasians as well.

This morning there was a report of a man in his own driveway last night, a long way from Cronulla, and a passing carload asked if he was an Aussie - when he said he was, they beat him up. Now that might be exaggerated - but that is the sort of story that rather gets up the back of various locals.

Australia has had very generous social welfare payments and most of us know stories of people of all sorts of persuasion blatantly ripping off the system. The public hospital system is obliged to provide interpreters for anyone needing their help, I remember a case of a lady who had been living here for 19 years and she still needed an interpreter. And another man - of Middle Eastern origin - who wanted to go on having children so he would get paid by the government and would not have to work. Those stories may not be typical - but they happen and they build up the resentment. Not really for the race or the colour but as a group of people who are seeing as trying to take Australian generousity for a ride.

As a female obstetrician I have a lot of Muslim women as patients, and I see their husbands too. And I see a lot more Muslim/Lebanese women in the public hospital. Almost invariably they are great people whom I would be happy to call my friends.

But for some reason this group of young males born here feel "disenfranchised" and for whatever reason are lashing out. The response of Australians of the same ilk has been totally unhelpful.

The problem seems to be mostly confined to the young male of the species, and the older saner voices on both sides are trying to get things to cool down. We all hope they succeed.

[Nan]

As an addendum to the above, Australians with a long enough memory will recall the very derogatory remarks applied to Europeans of Mediterranean origin who came here in large numbers after WW2. These same people are now part of the larger Australian community. I say this after rereading Neil's remarks about the potential harvest for words of contempt today - in a country where to call some one a bastard can be a term of affectionate friendship - sometimes.

Various sociological types have been pontificating that the current atmosphere of fear of terrorism is magnifying the response to the action of these young men. It is only a few weeks ago that there were several arrests of males of the same origin, who were said to have bombs ready for terrorist attacks in this country. Those arrests just happened to be at much the same time as the Federal government enacted some new security laws including some sedition clauses seen as attacking basic freedom of speech in political dissent.

I am not trying to fence sit, but to apply a 'racist' label is simplistic.

I heard one Muslim on talk back radio today who said everybody should get together and share a meal on Cronulla beach, as a way of defusing the tension. He was sincere and it could work, but I would not put it past some to lace their food with pork then tell the Muslims afterwards. Maybe I am a cynic.

[Nan]

The groups are trying - Sydney Morning Herald today

United in peace: the Bra Boys and the bikies

Close contact ... Azad Houda, representing the Islamic community, takes a call after a productive meeting with the Bra Boys gang last night.

Photo: Simon O'Dwyer

By Kelly Burke and AAP

December 14, 2005

AS FAR as press conferences go, it was a wipe-out.

If Maroubra residents were seeking assurances that the rampage on Monday night would be the last, the Bra Boys' brief media appearance yesterday was hardly likely to assuage their fears.

Earlier, at the invitation of the Abberton brothers who largely control the eastern suburbs surf gang, the Lebanese community spokesman Keysar Trad met Bra Boys members.

Afterwards, at a media conference, Sunny Abberton assured the public his gang and the rival Comancheros - which had a large Lebanese membership - were working together to burst the bubble of racial hatred.

"We're doing all we can to go out there and speak with the Lebanese community and ease tensions," he said.

Would the streets now be safe?

"No they're not … they've bitten off more than they can chew over there," said Jai Abberton.

Silent throughout the media circus was the clan's most famous son, the surfing champion Koby Abberton. Awaiting sentencing after being convicted of perverting the course of justice, he suggested last week that Cronulla's problems with undesirable outsiders had been solved at Maroubra, thanks to the presence of the Bra Boys.

The "outsiders" responded by smashing about 60 cars along Maroubra and Malabar roads on Sunday night.

But Jai insisted the gang had not been involved in the confrontations at Cronulla on Monday night.

"None of us have ever been to Cronulla, none of us ever supported these people at Cronulla … they're cowardly acts," he said.

Then Mick, a big bloke of Middle Eastern appearance modelling a Comancheros T-shirt, shook hands with the Abberton boys to show everyone the Bra Boys and the Lebanese had settled their differences.

"Last night in Lakemba I've never seen anything like it since I've been in Beirut … so many weapons," he said.

Later, Mr Trad said the Bra Boys were one of the most multicultural groups of surfers in Australia and showed that people from all backgrounds could enjoy the beach.

[Dr. Shane]

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we see the vestiges of the oppressed black man even today in America

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Jesse jackson once said "We got free and foolish."

While there is still remnants of racism within white America, much of the problems in the black community in America today are of their own making.

Compare the black community to the asian or hispanic (both minorities) We find less blacks going to college per capitia. We find more abortion per captia. We find more births to single mothers per capitia. We find more dead-beat dads per capita. The white man is not doing anything to cause these things to happen in the black community.

So there is a vast difference between history and present-day. Some black leaders want to look to the past and blame white men while others, like Bill Cosby, look at the present and see that the future is of their own making.

[lazarus]

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Shane said:

While there is still remnants of racism within white America, much of the problems in the black community in America today are of their own making.

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Oh really! Are seriously saying that the enslavement of black people in America, the denial of education for generations, the systematic break up of families by white slave owners, the mistreatment, the denial of personhood, the view that you're less than human being (see 2/3rds of a person in the constittion), drinking from different water fountains etc you think that is not responsible for the condition of black people today.

What planet are you on?

Its this kind of bizzare ignorance and insensitivity that helps me to understand why racism is alive and well in America

[lazarus]

Furthermore,

what is it Shane about black people that makes them so suspetable to these nagative traits, deadbeat dads, abortion, lack of education. Is there something inate, something in their make-up, their psyche.

What is it that has led them to be at the bottom of the pile in so many areas. I guess its their self pity, their inability to take responsibilty, the lack of intelligence, lack of family values, self control.......

What is it Shane?

[Dr. Shane]

There is nothing about "black" people that cause these traits. If there was we would find such traits in all groups of black people regardless what culture they are in. Yet that is not the case. These traits vary among various African nations and various Carrabien nations. It has nothing to do with them being "black".

However it has nothing to do with white people enslaving them for this nation's first 100 years or oppressing them for the nation's second 100 years. For the last 35 years affirmative action programs have given blacks and other minories the advantage in getting accepted into schools and getting funding to pay for schools. Many many many blacks have taken advantage of these oportunities and are living out the American dream. Some of them are my friends.

Bill Cosbey gets it. Walter Williams gets it. Thomas Sowell gets it. As long as the black or any other community looks back and blames its past for its present its future will never be any brighter. I saw Snoop Dogg's mother on TV this evening and she gets it. She is not proad of the path her son has taken but believes God is going to turn him around.

It isn't a racial issue. It is a cultural issue. Look at who the heros of the black youth are. They are entertainers: actores, rappers and atheletes. And most of them fail to rise to the responsibility of being a cultural role models. In most cultures a child's hero is his or her dad first and those figures their dad glorifies second. When there is no dad in the home the entertainers become heros and are among the worst a teenager could have. Many of the blacks that take advantage of their opportunities and do well in society comes from homes that had a father.

[lazarus]

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Shane said:

However it has nothing to do with white people enslaving them for this nation's first 100 years or oppressing them for the nation's second 100 years.

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To say the past 200 years has nothing to do with the present is as untenable as saying the past 200 has everything to do with it. Just because the individuals openly criticise their own race does not mean that they get it!

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Some of them are my friends.

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As long as America fails to publicly aknowledge its past, apologise for slavery, segregation etc it will fail to heal the wounds of the past 200 years.

Its is both racial and cultural. To deny the racial component is to deny reality. It is to deny the reality of the past 200 years. Its convenient for white America to do so. Of course there are serious problems in that black comunity. I don't mind them being highlighted. Its is necessary, but to deny the cause and effect nature of the problem is shortsigted.

[Dr. Shane]

To say it is racial is to say there is something in the genetic makeup of black men that causes them to be more likely to be a deadbeat dad. Or something in the genetic makeup of black women that causes them to be more likely to abort their unborn children. That simple isn't so. It is not a racial issue.

The is nothing more the government can do in America to help erase the effects of its past oppression of blacks. Afirmative action gives blacks great opportunities. Now it is the blacks that must take advantage of such opportunities. And many of them do.

The way I see it, which of course could be wrong, society's biggest problem is the lack of fathers in homes. Some segments of society, like blacks, have bigger problems with this than others. This is caused by unwed births, often related to alcohol or drug use and divorce.

[Neil D]

I have delayed in replying, Nan, because what I am about to say is as hypocritical as I can be...but at the same time, it is an admition that US Whites are as unclear as to what to do for their racial problems as probably as you are about yours. We have gone a ways to give the black man a leg up, but not far enough, in my opinion. And in many cases, not the right type of "leg up" that would help. But this I do know....where I am sitting from, Australia can use some of our hard learned lessons/knowledge in regard to dealing with racism....as evidenced by your first paragraph...

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Neil I strongly disagree that Australia is "as racist as South Africa". There are elements who would like to get rid of the recent immigrants - forgetting that their forbears were immigrants once too. But we do not have discrmination enshrined in law here, and have not had such for many years. In fact, if the Aboriginal issues are put to one side, I am not sure there have been any discriminatory laws against immigrants, certainly not in my adult memory.

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The fact that you are not doing things with the Aborigionals shows that you are not as sensitive to the race issue as you could be..[bTW, 'you' is a general word here, not you, Nan, specific.]In fact, you already sense that you are not in line with your own ideals and need to deal with them, but they have not been a top social priority, understandably...But now, with the riots, it HAS to be dealt with...

And I know that I can not say a whole lot, as Austrailain communications are monitored...much to the dismay of many...So, I say this, from this end of the pond, so to speak, you ozzies need help with the racial issues, as from where I am on the globe, you got some real problems that the whites have gotten comfortable with. Trust me, the US has some ways to go, but as I have said, from this end of the pond, it's looks quite different over here.

Having said that, I know that from your end of the pond, our racial issues look quite different as well. It has been reported to me, from other ozzie sources, that some ozzies will not come to the US due to our gun laws...some of our citizens have guns, and you ozzies don't want to come here, because our citizens tend to have a high 'citizen to citizen' kill rate. Those of us, in the USA, know where those 'kill zones' are [or at least see signs of where they could be], and tend to avoid them. Most of the US is pretty safe... never the less, from your end of the pond, it looks quite different...right?

So, please excuse me, for saying/telling you all to get on your phones and call your leaders to be men and show leadership. People are dying for lack of leadership. People are getting hurt for the lack of men/women who will stand up for the right 'though the heaven fall'.....

[Dr. Shane]

Does Austraila have affirmative action policies that give preference to racial minorities for college enterance, college funding and government contracts? Are major corporations required to meet race quotas in the number of people they hire? These are a some of the things that have helped racial minorities in the United States find opportunites.

[Nan]

Just to acknowledge your reply (and I would be much better to be still asleep at this hour here <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) - I will not comment too much at this stage.

I separated the Aboriginal and recent immigrant issues because there are differences.

And at present I am not sure how much faith we have in our politicians - the State politicians who are Labour or the Federal who are Liberal (that would very approximately be equivalent to Democrat and Republican respectively in your terms.)

I am much more impressed at the various local efforts to defuse things. There was a church hall burnt down during the week, definitely arson, not officially definitely an offshoot of the riots - and yesterday there was a meeting of Muslim, Jewish and Christians on the site. Some of the gang leaders, from both sides, have come together and apologised for their actions.

I will leave it here, my brain is still trying to wake up <img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />