Dr. Ben Carson, Adventists, Sunday Laws

[bonnie]

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White Horse News

Dr. Ben Carson, Adventists, Sunday Laws

 

Dear friend,

What you are about to read is THE MOST SHOCKING information I have ever sent out via Enews. Events occurring NOW in our world have convinced me that time is very short. Honestly, this is no time to beat around the bush. I must speak plainly. God's Spirit compels me. Here goes ...

Most of you know that my church affiliation is Seventh-day Adventist. Dr. Ben Carson, one of the most famous neurosurgeons in the world, officially announced yesterday that he has decided to run for President of the United States. Dr. Carson is a Seventh-day Adventist too. No doubt his campaign will bring increasing media attention to the Adventist Church itself and to what Adventists actually believe. This may be God's exact plan. 

 

Concerning salvation, Adventists strongly believe (no matter what our critics say) that sinners are saved by grace, not works (see Ephesians 2:8,9). Yet we also believe that born-again Christians who are transformed by Jesus should live moral lives and keep the Ten Commandments. Millions of other Christians believe this too. Yet we also apply this to commandment number four, which states, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy" (Exodus 20:8).

Concerning prophecy, this is where things get really interesting. Adventists also believe that the "beast" of Revelation 13:1-10 is a symbol of the Roman Catholic Church system (not the people, per se), that the Roman Church (by their own admission) changed the Bible Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, that Sunday itself is a "mark" of Rome's authority (also by their own admission), and that someday this "mark" (Sunday) will be legislated worldwide (see Revelation 13:16,17). God will use this crisis to "test" human beings all over His planet. Will people follow their Creator, or the Beast? Our church has been teaching this for over 150 years. 

1) Believe it or not, Sunday legislation is growing around the world. White Horse Media has highlighted in a 5-minute "World News and the Bible" TV program entitled, "Hungarian Sunday Law."

2) On March 27, 2015, Arizona Senator Sylvia Allen (R) stated that Americans should be debating a bill requiring mandatory Sunday observance. This was reported on CNN. 

 

3) On April 18, 2015, "The Lord's Day Alliance of the U.S." ran an article entitled, "Sunday as a Mark of Christian Unity." 

4) White Horse Media is about to release a newsletter entitled, "The Time is at Hand!", outlining major events now occurring with the Roman Catholic Church (the first beast of Revelation 13:1), in America (the second beast of Revelation 13:11), and providing details about the fast-approaching "mark of the beast," which will soon occur when Sunday observance is legislated worldwide. You can read our newsletter here, and also order copies for sharing from White Horse Media. 1-800-782-4253.

 

 

5) This coming Thursday, May 7, Tim Saxton and I will be LIVE on 3ABN worldwide for two hours (6-8 pm PT, 7-9 pm MT, 8-10 CT, 9-11 ET) discussing these very things before millions of viewers. If you don't receive 3ABN in your home, you can watch that program online at that time at www.3abn.org. 

6) To learn the Bible facts, read White Horse Media's pocketbook, Decoding the Mark of the Beast. 

Sensing that time is short, I am now teaching prophecy seminars called, "America, the Beast, and the Devil's Deadly Mark," covering these exact topics. Two weeks ago I was in Menomonie, WI, speaking on this very subject. A local Christian talk show host, Mark Halvorsen at WWIB 103.7, interviewed me. You can listen to that interview now. 

Dear friend, if you believe in White Horse Media, we hope you will support us in these critical times. As a faith ministry, we need help, and trust God to provide through His people. Our goal is to be bold, yet humble, compassionate, yet straight-forward. We want to lift up Jesus, who is not only our Savior, but also our Creator (see John 1:10), and "Lord of the Sabbath" (see Matthew 12:8). The Sabbath points to Jesus Christ as the Maker of all life. Believe it or not, it was our Creator who became a man and then died on a cruel cross to atone for our sins of violating His Law (see 1 John 3:4). "If you love Me," Jesus urges, "keep My commandments" (John 14:15, compare with Exodus 20:6). 

As God's "sure word of prophecy" (2 Peter 1:19) comes to pass right before our very eyes, let's all show our loyalty to Him. 

Your brother on the front lines, 

Steve Wohlberg
Speaker/Director, White Horse Media
www.whitehorsemedia.com

Edited May 5, 2015 by bonnie

[Bravus]

I'm not sure how having Carson as the leader of the Lamb-like Beast ties in with all that...

[D_Bishop]

Thanks for the heads up.  i will try to watch 3abn this Thursday evening.

 Ben Carson, before his announced he is running for President, had an unofficical campaign going on.  During this pre campaign he often did book signings and gave political lectures  during sabbath hours.  Judging from that I think he is going to try to tap dance around being a seventh day adventist as much as possible.  

I also don't think he will last long in the race.  i could be wrong.   It will be interesting to watch, for sure.

[Gregory Matthews]

The following is instructive as to the purpose of the message from WHM:

 

Dear friend, if you believe in White Horse Media, we hope you will support us in these critical times.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

D Bishop said:

During this pre campaign he often did book signings . . .

Have you read any of his books?  Are you aware that Dr. Carson has written books that deal with spiritual issues?  I have certainly seen his books pushed as having spiritual value.

 

[Stan]

Does a person have to agree with every position Carson does to support him?  Think about that.

[Bravus]

One could support him as a person, as an Adventist, as a surgeon, as a public figure and so on without supporting him as a politician or presidential candidate. His policies, as far as I have seen and heard, are not anything I can support, but I can still support the man.

[D_Bishop]

D Bishop said:

 

Have you read any of his books?  Are you aware that Dr. Carson has written books that deal with spiritual issues?  I have certainly seen his books pushed as having spiritual value.

 

​One sabbath he appeared for a signing in Amarillo Tx at 9:00am.  Then he flew to a conservative suburb outside of Houston for a 4:00pm book signing. Both of these appearances were in conservative GOP, tea party areas.  I doubt seriously he was there to discuss the sabbath school lesson.  Those appearances were 99 % political in nature.  

I'm sure there is some generic spiritual content in his books.  That is status quo in american politics, especially on the right.  Where the controversy (there is a reason why 'the great controversy is a major theme in this church) starts is that he espouses to be an adventist.  If someone lifts the lid, so to speak, on what adventist believe concerning the sacredness of the sabbath, prophecy relating to the sea beast, prophecy relating to america's role in bible prophecy, etc., that is going to be..interesting, to say the least.

[Gregory Matthews]

So, I can gather from your response:

1) You do not know the title and content of the book that he signed.

2) Your dismissal of its spiritual content indicates that you are not aware of the spiritual content of some of his writings.  NOTE:  I do doubt that he has written much on the Pope as the "Man of sin," Which some SDAs seem to want to do.

3) Your sarcasm (not there to discuss the SS Lesson) is evident.

3) In short, the above suggests to me that you should not be taken seriously in any comment that you might make about Dr. Carson.

 

NOTE:  I am not a supporter of him in his run to become the President of the United States.  But, I do believe that he should be treated fairly and with integrity.  That you appear to me, not to have done.

 

.

[D_Bishop]

My thing is this: i think it is very hard to be a devout seventh day adventist christian, and also a successful candidate for POTUS, especially at this time in earth's history.   If your campaign flourishes, then your sda walk is going to conversely flounder.  I read his first two books.  I haven't read his last books.  If I were seeking spiritual substance I would not go to his books as a source.  I like and respect Dr Carson, but I do not see him as a spiritual leader.   He's a politician now, first and foremost. He has been in political mode full on since that speech he gave at that prayer breakfast, with Obama sitting next to him. He probably started before that.  I know political campaigning on the sabbath when I see it. 

I am not trying to denigrate Dr Carson. Perhaps the Lord is using his candidacy to get present truth doctrine out to the masses, as Steve Wohlberg suggested on 3ABN a few days ago.   As for you not taking my comments seriously, who are you that I should be concerned about that?

[LifeHiscost]

    As for you not taking my comments seriously, who are you that I should be concerned about that?  

​I think he was maybe just wanting to help you stay on the straight and narrow. After all, I think that's part of his job description, or was, unless I'm mistaken about chaplains.

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[D_Bishop]

So, if i have a difference of opinion with a chaplain, I am supposed to shut may mind down and accept what he says?  i don't think so.

[Gregory Matthews]

D_Bishop:  You and I actually agree on some points.  You said that you did not think that he will last long.  I question whether or not he will make it to the lConvention, and if he does, I do not think he will be the Republican candidate.  But, I could be wrong.  I also believe that it will be interesting.

One of your comments that I  believe is both interesting and well worth discussion is whether or not one can be a devout SDA and a candidate for President.  You challenged me to think and my personal answer was that I probably could not do so.  If you would like to discuss that, I suggest that you do so from your personal position, your understanding of the issues as they apply to you and what the challenges would be for you.  However, if your were to approach it from the position that looked to be judgmental of Dr. Carson, I would have a real problem with that.  This forum is not a place for that.  I would also expect you so show a bit more knowledge.  If you want to talk about his appearance at a book signing, at a minimum be aware of the book he actually signed and its content.  If you want to talk about Sabbath observance, do so respectfully.

 

So, you are not concerned as to whether or not I take your comments seriously.  I did not expect you to be so concerned.  Actually that was not the issue that I raised.  The substance of my comment was to how your presented yourself when making your comments.  You may be very well informed.  Based on your knowledge you may be able to make reasoned comments that are worth considering.  But, in my opinion, that is not how your presented yourself.  In my opinion, you presented yourself in a manner in which you lacked information (ignorance) and therefore, I suggested that there would be people who would not take you seriously.   I stand by that opinion.  Of course, that would not be 100%.   There would be those who would not see you in that manner.  There might even be some who would see you as having great wisdom and knowledge.  O.K.  I simply suggested something different, with which you can clearly disagree.   What you do with my comment is up to you and I do not have a problem with that.

As to shutting your mouth and mind:  You have got to be kidding. No one who knows me would ever suggest that I would think you should do such.

Yes, in sections that I moderate, I set  boundaries and when people cross those boundaries, I let them know. You have not crossed those boundaries.  Disagreement with me  is not one of those boundaries.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2015 by Gregory Matthews

[D_Bishop]

Ben Carson gives Political Speech on Sabbath

Republican contenders for the U.S. Presidency tried to out-do each other on Saturday, May 9, 2015 in arguing that President Obama is a failed leader. While the critiques are no surprise, what does surprise some is that Ben Carson, a Seventh-day Adventist retired neurosurgeon was there to make a speech as well. 

Carson was one of eight declared and potential candidates to make the speech on the Sabbath, which included Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker (Evangelical), Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal (Roman Catholic), Former Pennsylvania U.S. Senator Rick Santorum (Roman Catholic), former Texas Governor, Rick Perry (Evangelical), Florida Senator, Marco Rubio (Roman Catholic), Texas Senator, Ted Cruz (Roman Catholic), Ben Carson, retired surgeon (Seventh-day Adventist) and former executive Carly Fiorina (Episcopalian).

The conservative group Citizens United sponsored the event. 

Ben Carson is setting a public example of what he believes Sabbath-keeping is, both in the United States and around the world. Apparently, he has no problem holding political speech on God’s holy day. He is highly respected, and yet he lightly regards the Sabbath, and influencing others to do the same. It also sends the message to the world that if he were president; the Sabbath would not get in the way of his official political and secular duties. 

“The enemy of souls has sought to bring in the supposition that a great reformation was to take place among Seventh-day Adventists, and that this reformation would consist in giving up the doctrines which stand as the pillars of our faith, and engaging in a process of reorganization… The Sabbath, of course would be lightly regarded, as also the God who created it…” Selected Messages, Vol. 1, 204

 

[Gregory Matthews]

D_Bishop: 

It might be of value to know exactly what he said in his speech.  IOW, to what extent did it involve moral values that some might think appropriate for Sabbath keeping.

In any case, I will suggest that it might be of value to respond to what Ellen White said when she advised people to go to the polls and to vote on Sabbath.  You may find that advice in:

A. L. White, ELLEN G. WHITE, VOL. 3, THE LONELY YEARS, 1876-1891. Review & Herald Publishing Association, 1984, pages 159 & 160.

[D_Bishop]

Chaplain Matthews:

What Ellen White had to say about voting on the sabbath is somewhat surprising.   I need to read her writings more.  Dispite  what  she said I don't see myself voting on the sabbath anytime  in the near future.    For the record  I copied and pasted my last post from the Keep the Faith Ministries web site.

 

DB

[Gregory Matthews]

Many people are surprised at what Ellen White has actually said on a subject.

The reality is that she was actually quite a reasonable person.  Often her advice were tailored to specific situations and not designed to be of overall application.  It is up to us to determine the principle as well as the application.

  

Edited July 18, 2015 by Gregory Matthews

[Guest Kevin]

Colporteur Kevin;

I am concerned that Dr. Carson, as stated publically, said that he frequently misses church on Sabbath because of travel. Then he said that he alternates by attending a Sunday church. It is one thing to frequently miss church for any reason but to alternate by going to a Sunday keeping church where error is preached, is another. He said that he spends a lot of time in Sunday churches because he believes that the denomination is not so important as a relationship with Jesus. While that may be true, they both are important. It is not one or the other.

[Guest]

Listen to minute 17:05 of the following link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abdel_luhPY

 

I am not judging Ben Carson's motives but am concerned about " alternating" Sunday church attendance for the Sabbath. Also, in this day and age one can fly across the continental US in less than a day. With appropriate scheduling why would one need to "frequently" miss church on Sabbath ?

Voting on Sabbath, once a term, when there is no alternative may take 30 minutes of your time. Is that the same as spending many hours and many Sabbaths immersed in politics. We know that God gets relatively little emphasis in political circles. It is easy to rationalize humanitarian deeds on Sabbath because Jesus healed on the Sabbath. However, farmers could also rationalize harvesting the field on Sabbath because a storm is coming. After all, farmers feed the hungry. My point is that is very easy to slip away from Sabbath observance and its purpose and rationalize doing so for the sake of humanitarian reasons. Then there is all of the necessary purchasing on the Sabbath. Taxis, tips, fuel, food, etc., etc.

[phkrause]

In my opinion its very sad what politics does to people.

[Guest Kevin]

Dr. Carson also said during a Fox news interview that the earth could be 50 billion years old. He stated that the time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 could be 50 years or 50 billion years. Why would one need to assume that there was a gap at all ?  We do not need to assume something like this in order to appease what some scientists claim.

[phkrause]

Seems incredible what politics does to people, but I shouldn't, I see and hear and read it every day here. Not all, but a few.

[LifeHiscost]

Many people are surprised at what Ellen Whit has actually said on a subject.

The reality is that she was actually quite a reasonable person.  Often her advice were tailored to specific situations and not designed to be of overall application.  It is up to us to determine the principle as well as the application.

  

17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself....John 7.

 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Guest Adventists for Dr. Carson]

If you read Daniel and Revelations there is obviously a gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.  In Genesis 1:1 Moses is simply setting the scene for his book.   As Seventh-day Adventist Christians we should be supporting our brother in Christ, not dishing up flaky responses against him.   That's what the Pharisees did to Jesus.

Questions for you to consider:

1. All through the biblical ages God lead his leaders, why do you feel God can't be leading Dr. Carson?

2.  Where does the bible talk against speaking up for truth in political circles on the Sabbath day?  

3. Where does the bible require you to be in a church building every Saturday at 11am?  

4. Where does the bible say that Adventist congregations teach only the truth and non-Adventist congregations never do?

5. Where does the bible say not to worship God with people that don't believe exactly like you do?   

Adventists for Dr. Carson
https://facebook.com/groups/adventists4carson

[GayatfootofCross]

Well I'm looking for the Fruit!

I have not seen Dr. Carson talk of others as the Least of these and the Marginalized as the Face of JESUS.

The world is holding up a microphone  to Dr. Carson's mouth!

 

#Lights! Camera! Action!

Edited July 18, 2015 by GayatfootofCross