A Lack of Kindness

[Clio]

First, I want to say I'm not bitter or resentful about what I'm going to relate in this post. Secondly, I see what I am about to relate as a learning experience for me since prior to this I've always been a helper rather than a helpee. Thirdly, this attitude is not isolated to where we are now. I have seen symptoms of it everywhere we've lived and attended SDA churches. But it has only been in the last two years that I realized how deep the malaise goes in the SDA denomination.

You see, for the last two years, my life has been truly catastrophically changed to where I have needed to rely on the help of others. The church to which I give my tithes and offerings, my labor, and support couldn't be bothered. Nor can it be said they did not know. Requests for hospital visits, regular requests for prayer, and requests for assistance have been delivered to the pastor and the church boards for over a year.

If I were not firmly founded in the truths SDA's teach, I wouldn't be an SDA today. I certainly wouldn't attend an SDA church.

In the two years Mike has been sick, no one from the multiple SDA congregations in our area has reached out to help us. When we've asked through the pastor or the elders for a little bit of help, not once has a church member come through. Not once in two years.

We asked for some help to shore up our front steps... Even to providing the materials, and offering to pay someone $100. No one had time or could be bothered. So I got out there and with one of my daughters, I built my first anything... a set of stairs. They lean crazily to one side, the steps aren't deep enough, the landing isn't level, and it's clear I didn't know what I was doing... so they'll have to be redone in the spring, but they'll stand for the winter.

We've asked for help in a number of areas, things a man would do were he healthy. We've even offered to pay, probably not the market rate, but something. No one from the two closest SDA churches, which we've attended about equally, 2 years at each church, could help. But if they need something? Oh.. the phone rings off my hook. And if I can't support their pet project, talk about a guilt trip! When those calls have come, the caller hasn't even had the compassion to ask how my husband is, or why they haven't seen us at church lately.

Even the pastor finds himself too busy to honor my requests for a pastoral visit. It's been 18 months since he's been to see Mike. Although I ask him to come about once a month.

It's amazing to me that anyone would want to be an SDA. It would require deep conviction of the truths we teach, because in all the SDA cultural centers, and farther out in the boonies, I've never been a part of an SDA group that reached out beyond their central clique to help someone.

When we lived in Walla Walla, Lancaster, Northern Virginia, St. Louis, Sacramento, Napa, Seattle, Portland... I watched needy families struggle and struggle. We did what we could for them, and usually, since money is always tight, it was building something, cleaning something, sharing food, clothing, buying certificates for electricity, fuel oil, or groceries. But we were the exception, even then.

We used to attend church every week. I was a regular soloist, my children regularly provided special music by playing their instruments or singing, my son was a Jr. Deacon, and helped with seating, taking up the offering, etc. My daughters were Jr. Deaconesses, helped with setting up potluck, communion, etc. In the two years since I've become unable to attend church regularly due to my husband's health, NO ONE has come by to see us or called to ask how we're doing.

The pastor came once, 18 months ago, after Mike got out of intensive care the second time. He came out to the house because he's missed Mike in the hospital.

Why would anyone want to associate with the SDA denomination? From my experience we're a pretty cold group.

Can anyone else give testimony otherwise? I'd really like to hear it, because at the moment, I'm terribly disappointed and find it difficult to be happy about saying I'm an Adventist. Over the last years, it seems that I've observed lots of head-knowledge and very little compassion.

If it can rock my faith, what will such abandonment do to a newly baptized convert who might need help? We claim to to be "the remnant" church of a Saviour Who reached out to the lowliest, the most humble, and met their physical needs as well as their spiritual needs. What will it do to someone who's only exposure to SDA's might be that moment of need?

Clio

[Gregory Matthews]

Clio, what you have related all to often happens. That reality cannot be mitigated by the stories we are told where people experienced something 180 degrees different.

I am not going to offer some trite excuse or explaination. Such would not be helpful.

I can only say that I am sorry.

[Taylor]

I am so sorry Clio. Such things do hurt. I must say that I have seen similar indifference in some places, but I have also been blessed to see pastors bend over backwards to help people. My old pastor in New York (he's not old but it's been 2 years since I lived in NY) has just recently been staying a few hours every day with an elderly church member who just came home from the hospital. She couldn't take care of some basic things, and her husband had to be gone for those hours, so he was there to help her and just keep her company while her husband was gone. He did this for something like 5 days in a row. I only heard about it because this woman's daughter told how grateful she was for such a loving pastor. So there are exceptions.

However, that does not diminish your pain and I am truely sorry for what you've been through.

[Clio]

Thanks, Gregory.

I really must say that I'm not bitter about it, or resentful. I'm more shocked.

I mean... churches constantly look for ways to evangelize, to make a difference in the community. There are soooo many ways, that are practical and meaningful, that don't require "putting on a program and inviting the community".

Why would the community come, anyway? We're not out there, they don't know us.

It's sad. We have so much head-knowledge and so little heart knowledge.

A suggestion, get in touch with a local LOVE INC. group. The know what families in the community are the deepest in need. They are the resource agency of last resort for those who slip through the cracks of state aid.

Even a small, poor church could adopt one family or individual. A $50 grocery certificate, paying for medical perscriptions, paying half an electric bill, providing 100 gallons of fuel oil, or gift certificates to sears, walmart or a gas station are all meaningful practical ways to help.

What about meeting the emotional needs of the caregivers and sole providers of those families?

I've not been away from my husband's side in two years except to run errands and work. I would never ask for something from any group for myself because for me it's an inconvenience, for my husband it's life or death. Someday, my turn will come, but I'm not about to dilute any assistance that might come my way by asking for something for me. That's selfish.

How many others are out there who need this kind of emotional life and hope to keep them going and can't bring themselves to ask?

If there's a family in deep enough need to make the LOVE INC. rolls, you can bet whoever the primary caregiver and wage-earner is needs something like a gift certificate to have their nails done, or a massage, or a gift certificate to the used book store. Can you offer to take care of their horridly behaved children for three or four hours so mom can take a nap? What about dropping off a dinner, fully prepared, of what THEY like to eat without forcing SDA dietary considerations on them? Even if that means you buy KFC for them?

I've been thinking a lot about this as you can see. Jesus takes care of me and mine, but there are so many who don't know to pray, who don't have faith in the Unseen, who then lack those wonderful blessings Jesus pours out on me and mine. Mostly because they don't know to ask.

Adventists want to reach the community... There's your outreach program.

I've been going to the Fairbanks Youth Facility twice a week to visit the teens there. I see the same people week after week. And perhaps 20% of the kids get visited. I try and rotate my visiting. There are two pastors who are there ever single visitation night. Only two. Not Adventists. Yet I know we have a Prison Ministries group in town. I'm there twice a week, every week, on the only nights visitation is allowed. Been doing it for 6 months now... Never seen them.

Clio

[Clio]

Taylor,

That is simply AWESOME. But stories like those are few and far between.

How blessed that woman and her husband must have been. But let me ask you this....

Would the pastor had done so if she was not also "old"?

Clio

[Taylor]

I have seen this same pastor visit people in the hospital regardless of their age, whether it is a baby in the hospital, an old person, a teen even if it means getting up in the middle of the night. I have also seen him invite people over to his house all the time for meals, go to the Adventist elementary school and Academy and play with the kids, tell them stories, give worships etc. And no he isn't related to me so I don't have any bragging rights, lol.

Once when I was in the hospital, a pastor, who was not even my church pastor came to visit me (he was an SDA but not from my church). He took the initiative to tell a secretary that he was in to see a church member and before he left he asked if were there any other Adventist in the hospital. They told him there was one, so he came to visit me. That really impressed me.

I personally know pastors who have helped clean up people's yards and help put siding on houses in their community for no other reason than wanting to help etc.

I am so very sorry, again, that you have had such a dreadful experience. I know that there are many cases of people being ignored and not helped and that should NEVER happen. You are right, people need to be treated far differently than you have been. However, I just want to tell you there are wonderful people who are pastors and church leaders, in this world who have gone out of their way to help people and "be there" for them. I know that it probably doesn't help you feel any better. If there were any way I could erase the pain you have been through I would gladly do so. And I admire you for not being bitter.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

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We asked for some help to shore up our front steps...

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I have been involved in an Adventist group that helps members with home improvements. It was always anounced in the boliten and once a month on a Sunday a group of us would go out to one of the members homes that needed help. They normally bought the materials. We would hang doors, fix holes in walls, fix or replace leaking plumbing, fix leaking roofs, erect fences, pour sidewalks and things like that. It was a really rewarding ministry. When we switched churches our new church didn't have such a ministry so I started doing such work on my own.

Quote:

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Even the pastor finds himself too busy to honor my requests for a pastoral visit. It's been 18 months since he's been to see Mike.

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I have been involved with cold churches myself. Thankfully now we have a wonderful pastor that looks for reasons to come out and visit us.

I did Bible studies with a girl who had been baptised Assembly of God. She accepted the Advent faith (I think her parents having read to her from Arthur Maxwell's My Bible Story helped) and desired to enter the church through profession of faith. I couldn't even get the pastor to visit her. Sad commentary indeed

[Clio]

That is very, very cool. It is heartwarming and encouraging that there are those who do reach out in this way.

I do have to say, though, that in my experience it has been the exception rather than the other way.

When we were in the Anchorage hospital, 350 miles from home, in October of 04, we were there for 8 days. Before we left home, I contacted our pastor and asked for visitation from the conference office or one of the 5 churches in the area... anyone. While we were down there I called 3 of the churches and the conference office and requested an anointing and visitation. I also asked if it would be possible to get a ride to church, any church while I was there.

No one even returned my phone calls.

So hearing positive experiences really is encouraging.

Clio

[Dr. Shane]

Clio, maybe people in Alaska are just cold

Ok, maybe it wasn't that funny

[Clio]

Hi Shane!

Very cool to hear there are churches who do that type of thing. Also is neat to hear you have a ministry like that of your own.

We often take in people who need a place to stay. In the last 4 years (yes even while Mike has been ill) we've had a number of people stay with us while getting back on their feet.

- family of 7 stayed with us for 3 months after moving here and not being able to find work straight off.

- A homeless man and woman stayed with us. She left after a week because she didn't want to abide by house rules, but he stayed for 6 months while he found work, paid off some expenses, and got out on his own.

- A man whose home burned down last winter stayed with us for a month

- Two ladies who moved here from the lower 48 are staying with me now. I got one of them a job as Mike's Personal Care Assistant, so she contributes a little towards the household budget, but she's saving to get out on her own... which means a car too in this neck of the woods. The other is an RN, and now that her fingerprints have cleared and she has her AK nursing license, I expect it won't be long before she's working and out on her own.

Those two have been an awesome blessing while he's been so sick. I can go to work and have the comfort of knowing there's an RN in the house, as well as a PCA in case something happens.

Clio

[Clio]

Erhm... well... if the temperature gets over 60 we melt, and if it gets over 10 above we break out the grill.

If it gets over 20 above... well, that's flip-flops and shorts weather!!!

Clio

[Gail]

Clio, I am SO sorry that you are going through this time of trouble. I just don't know what to say and it is frustrating knowing this information and being so far away

I remember when my family had such hardship, but I must say that it wasn't really the pastor but the members who made life more bearable for us. One family gave us $300 once at Christmas so that we could have one. Those times were so stressful that even to this day it is a difficult time of year for my daughter and me

But what is the answer? You have made excellent suggestions

I am grateful that my experience was not as yours, and I hope that telling you this will serve to supply those stories that you long to hear, in contrast to what is your reality

I am glad that you have found a place of fellowship here, though, even if we are only cyber friends

<img src="/ubbtreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Dr. Shane]

And where I live we keep the air conditioning set at 80ºF when it is hot outside and turn on the heater if it gets below 70ºF. Like tonight, it is to get down to 55ºF.

[Clio]

Hi Gail!

Thanks for your post of encouragement. How wonderful to have a Christmas from kindness. I do understand the difficulty this time of year can bring. Trauma wounds in ways not always obvious.

We have decided since there are only adults in the house to have a very small, very quiet Christmas. We are not purchasing any gifts, and decorations are rather minimal. We will have a family dinner, and my daughter and her boyfriend will come.

While we have had bountiful celebrations in the past, we are finding over the last several years that slimmer celebrations offer their own satisfaction.

That which is true, pure, and holy is much better savored if the deadlines, last minute wrappings, trappings, and errands are all put aside. I am looking forward to our plans this year, more than I have in many years.

Thank you so much for your kind wishes. I cannot ask for more except that prayers for healing and health will continue to rise on Mike's behalf. I am hopeful that he will be able to return to work in the spring.

Clio

[Norman Byers, N.D.]

Hi Clio,

I have seen SDA churches do wonderful things and I have seen them do awful things. I Have been a part of both in my life. Is there anything that Denise and I can do to help you? We can't be there but if we can help in any way please email me or her and let us know what we can do. Also I don't know what has happened to Mike, (your husband?) Please let us know so we can pray for you all.

Sincerely

Norman

[Jeannieb43]

Clio, reading your message was a wake-up call for me.

I immediately dialed the phone to talk to a young woman, new convert in our church, who lives alone. To hear from me during the daytime surprised her, but it was good that I called when I did.

We need more of these reminders.

God bless you.

[Clio]

Hi Norm. What a nice offer, especially since you're so far away. I can't imagine what it might be that you could do to help (other than pray and buy my book! LOL!... Just kidding...about the book, not praying!)except for prayer. I deeply desire all the healing prayer I can get for Mike, in all areas, not just physical health.

In January of 2004 Mike was diagnosed with chronic coronary disease, emphysema, diabetes, chronic gall bladder disease, chronic pancreatitis, COPD, tibular plateau limpomas, angina, and obstructive sleep apnea.

We spent 2004 just getting him stable, including 8 weeks in intensive care, 3 airlifts from Fairbanks to Anchorage for heart surgery, and multiple trips to ER in Fairbanks with several stays there as well.

In April he was deemed well enough for gall-bladder surgery. He was so infected throughout his abdomen that the doctor had it tested for gangrene.

When we saw this same doc in August, for something else, he looked Mike square in the face and said, "I didn't expect to see you again. I didn't think you'd live this long."

We owned a small business when Mike first got sick. When he could no longer work, our income was effectively cut by 2/3. We happen to fall through all federal and state aid nooks and crannies. Missing out on this aid in some cases by as little as $40 per month.

Jesus has been awesome, and has provided healing and spiritual growth in ways that just amaze me.

Some of the more controversial things that I throw out there, come straight from the last two years of watching Jesus at work doing miracles and the spiritual healing that then triggers physical healing.

None of the discussions I enter into on this board are theological in nature to me. They are what I have walked out in my life with Jesus and Mike. I can only tell my own testimony, I'm not a pastor, or trained theologically. It's what Jesus has chosen to do and to teach. Through the hardest possible school there is. Walking it out in faith and trust.

Do I wish things had been different? Sure, but I wouldn't trade the understanding and knowledge the Holy Spirit and Jesus have given for anything. Not even for Mike's health. And it's a measure of the healing and growth that has occurred there, that he made a very similar statement just this past weekend.

Clio

[Clio]

Quote:

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Jeannieb43 said:

Clio, reading your message was a wake-up call for me.

I immediately dialed the phone to talk to a young woman, new convert in our church, who lives alone. To hear from me during the daytime surprised her, but it was good that I called when I did.

We need more of these reminders.

God bless you.

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Good for you Jeannie! If it inspired anyone to reach out to those who may need encouragement or more tangible help, then YAY! And good for you for acting on your inspiration.

Abba bless you also.

Clio

[cricket]

There was a woman in my church a few years back who needed help with many, many things. My husband and I did our best to help her out, but the calls kept coming.

Many times they were calls to ask us to come and help move furniture, or to ask for money, or to go grocery shopping. Whenever we couldn't help, we'd say we were sorry, but she'd lay a guilt-trip on us heavily. It eventually came to the point that I dreaded her phone calls and finally, I quit answering them all together.

_______

Other times when I've been asked to help my help has been shunned. I've given perfectly good clothing to needy people and have had them tell me they wouldn't wear it because of outlandish reasons such as they didn't like the color. Then, they would ask if I had anything else to give.

__________

As a sponsor for a homeless shelter program, I've had people tell me that the meals I've cooked for them (fresh meals) were no good. They've said the cots were too small, the blankets were too scratchy, and the temperature was always too hot or too cold. (I slept on the floor those evenings.)

___________

We give money to people who say they need it for gas and then they use it for drugs, cigarettes or alcohol (verifiable purchases).

___________

Whatever happened to the old saying, "You can give a man a fish and feed him for a day; or, you can give him a rod and reel and feed him for a lifetime?"

___________

I don't mean to sound as if I've given up on humanity (I haven't), but it is truly discouraging to the giver when the givee keeps asking and asking--only to lay on the heavy guilt trips when their needs are met to their expectations.

___________

There are people living in cardboard boxes. There are people living without a shelter at all. Do any of us have a right to complain about day-old bread when there are some who don't even have year-old bread?

[lazarus]

Clio,

Your story really tugs at my heart too. There are no easy responses. I can see the pain and disappointment in your words.

As an SDA Pastor I apologise for what you have experienced. Many of our churches are perhaps more concerned with maintaining orthodoxy and business as usual rather than meeting needs.

I regret the times when I didn't visit when I know I should have. When I have been caught up with so many other things than the welfare of my people.

Thank you for sharing your story. God have used it to speak to our hearts.

[Clio]

Christine,

I so understand where you're coming from. I've been in your shoes.

The family of seven who stayed with us for 3 months free of charge no longer speak to us because we keep the Sabbath and are therefore a cult. She left her husband and is now on welfare, and he got messed up in drugs.

Most of those we have helped in the past have wound up not being "deserving" either.

I'm not all that upset about not getting financial help. I don't really need financial help. We are simply doing without. The kind of help I'm most disappointed in not getting were and are the pastoral visits, the anointing that was asked for, or even just the friendship and voice of someone whose very life wasn't my responsibility.

When I asked for help with our stairs, I didn't ask for charity, just help. I had all the material, even could have paid them $100 for their time.

I work, I have a good job, but $1500 a month in prescriptions after my insurance pays their part, plus the added medical visits, copays, special foods, increased electric bill for home medical equipment on TOP of losing 2/3 of our income... well... it was too much.

I agree that there are those who abuse the generosity of others, and we do well to avoid being taken advantage of. But there are others, who truly need the help and the only sign you will ever see they need it, is if you notice their absence, or ask them to find out.

Clio

[Clio]

Quote:

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lazarus said:

Clio,

Your story really tugs at my heart too. There are no easy responses. I can see the pain and disappointment in your words.

As an SDA Pastor I apologise for what you have experienced. Many of our churches are perhaps more concerned with maintaining orthodoxy and business as usual rather than meeting needs.

I regret the times when I didn't visit when I know I should have. When I have been caught up with so many other things than the welfare of my people.

Thank you for sharing your story. God have used it to speak to our hearts.

---

Then He has Blessed you and me too.

Clio

[Gerr]

Clio, I am deeply sorry to hear about this but I am not surprised. I have never been in ANY SDA church where there is an organized mechanism to help our own church members who are destitute. The church that I have been attending the last 6 yrs is slowly coming around to be more helpful to fellow members who are in need. Our pastor is very good at visiting people who are sick. When one of our members had heart surgery, he went almost 50 mi one way practically every day to see her. When I had surgery he came to see me at the hospital which was more than 50mi away from where he lives. I used to go with our head elder to visit the shut-in members. Now he has moved and it has fallen on my shoulders to continue this.

In the past, when someone dropped in at the church asking for help, they would be referred to the "Community Cupboard" to which the area churches contribute to, and to which our church contributed $200/mo. And in the past, when our ouwn members who were in need came to ask for help, some people in the church, usually from the Women's Ministries, would privately call on people to help and people would usually come through. We even did this for someone who was not SDA but was attending our church. We haven't seen her since she got our help.

Just recently, another member who was having trouble making ends meet asked for help. It was brought up in the church board meeting. There were a number who objected because "it would be opening a can of worms", i.e. opening the door for anybody and everybody to come in to ask for help. I argued from Isa 58 that the spiritual health of the church is proportional to how the church treated the destitute in her midst. During that same meeting, one of the items discussed was the need for a food warmer (to be used to warm food during potlucks) which cost $3000. I was a tad angry and pointed out that there was something wrong with that picture, i.e. a church more concerned about a $3000 food warmer than the needs of destitute human being.

Here is what our board decided. We are setting up a fund to which people who are touched to contribute to. And it is one of the regular items boldly marked in the tithe/offering envelope. This is to be used strictly for our needy members. We set it up this way so that the burden does not fall just on those who are being called. Furthermore, some of those who have been called to help in the past were in no position to help either and have been embarrassed. We also decided that we would investigate or look into the finances of the one asking for help to see if there is something we could do to help them manage their resources better. Also, any request for food or for cash of $200 or less, would be given with no questions asked, but anything more would trigger the issue of checking into their finances.

Gerry

[Clio]

You know... I keep hearing, $$$$ from so many. The kind of help I asked for and needed, wasn't so much money, as for someone willing to give time and energy to help me do something Mike had always done and that I didn't know how to do.

I was basically a widow with a still living husband... just... he couldn't get out of bed.

Jesus has always made our money stretch, as long as I fulfilled my part of trusting in Him and accepting what He gives.

I think the precautions your church is taking is wonderful, because Jesus doesn't want His people taken advantage of either.

But what about those whose car needs some basics... like oil checking, power steering fluids checking, anti-freeze set up for winter, or who needs some carpentry skills and can pay a little, maybe not market rate, but something, and has the materials? What about someone who needs a snake run through a septic line, but doesn't know how to operate one and can afford to rent one, but not pay a plumber? What about someone to plow a driveway and clear snow?

I'm not talking about monetary help. There's never enough money to go around and it just causes the kinds of problems you talk about. Isaiah 58 is wonderful, but Isaiah 54 is better. At least for me.

I think that we, as a nation, tend to throw money at problems instead of what might really be needed. After Mike and I lost our ranch and associated businesses, we didn't stop helping others, just because financially we were less able. Just the form of help changed. Instead of money, or paying a bill for them, we shared what we had, be it food, labor, clothing, even our home.

There are many who we never saw or heard from again afterwards, but we are not called to reap the harvest, just to be sowers. And who knows, maybe those seeds will bear fruit for the Kingdom of Abba. We didn't help them with any expectation of a return, just they needed help and we had something that would help.

Still, if money is something that your church is financially able to offer, then the system you have developed seems sound and like it should work.

I asked for money twice. Once when the 10% of the cost of the perscription Mike needed was $284 and I only had about $50 till payday, and once when Mike first got sick, and his income went from twice mine to zero overnight. I needed an additional $50 to cover my electricity. I have since paid both of those back.

No... financial help is not the kind of help I'm talking about.

Clio

[Nicodema]

It's either that (nobody helps), or the provision of a few material wants done with a brisk "well that's over, we can cross that off our list" feel. Yes sometimes I've seen that real spirit of caring, too, but like Gregory said, it doesn't ameliorate or excuse the reality of its absence elsewhere.

However, I'm not here to gripe. I wanted to ask, Clio, is there anything I can do for you right now? Please send me a private message. I'm only too happy to share what I have and help any way I can.

Nico