joeb Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 Since I can't read your mind, I can't disagree that anything I say would disagree with what you're thinking. So I can't answer your question as to how it disagrees with your view, unless you explain what your view is. Thanks for mentioning the DA Chapter. That's not one I can just say out of my head what it says. I know best the two I mentioned, and the "Gethsemane" and "Calvary" chapters. And "Unto You a Savior". Those are the ones which come to mind immediately. What an amazing book. However, I'm also very fond of "The Great Controversy". The chapter "The First Great Deception" really helped tremendously how I view things. Also the first chapter on the destruction of Jerusalem around p. 37 IIRC. But so many other chapters too. I used to listen to the book read audibly, which helped fix it in my mind. I told you I'm big on free will. How many times do I have to say it? How texts talking about how God wanted something other than He got behavior-wise from the Israelites and Jews are supposed to educate_me/make_me_change_my_position on free will baffles me. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
pnattmbtc Posted June 5, 2015 Posted June 5, 2015 joeb, you haven't articulated your position. You did write this, however: I've taken part in debates concerning it and have seen parts of it I agree with and parts of it I have to reject based upon the plain word of God. From this I inferred something, perhaps incorrectly (I have no way of knowing until you articulate a position), which was the basis for my citing the quote in Isaiah. Let's try things this way, if you'd like to have a discussion. Which parts of it are you rejecting, and why? Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
Moderators Gerr Posted June 18, 2015 Moderators Posted June 18, 2015 Would you call God omniscient if He didn't? Quote
pnattmbtc Posted June 18, 2015 Posted June 18, 2015 It appears this question is addressing the title of the thread, "Does God know every detail of our future?" I think everyone agrees that God knows the future as perfectly and completely as it can be known. The difference of opinion does not concern God's knowledge of the future, but the contents of that knowledge. In other words, it's an ontological question, not an epistemological one. My first in this thread, the seventh post, discusses this idea in some detail if you'd like to take a look. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
joeb Posted June 20, 2015 Posted June 20, 2015 joeb, you haven't articulated your position. You did write this, however: From this I inferred something, perhaps incorrectly (I have no way of knowing until you articulate a position), which was the basis for my citing the quote in Isaiah. Let's try things this way, if you'd like to have a discussion. Which parts of it are you rejecting, and why? Sorry about not answering sooner, but I forgot about this conversation and just now found it again. It's been several years since I was involved in those debates and to tell the truth I cannot recall the exact points of agreement and disagreement now I just remember having some points of agreement and some of disagreement. I do know I'm much more in agreement with it than I am with Calvinism. I'm not sure I want to re-study the subject again so for now I'll just let the matter drop. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
pnattmbtc Posted June 22, 2015 Posted June 22, 2015 Sorry about not answering sooner, but I forgot about this conversation and just now found it again. It's been several years since I was involved in those debates and to tell the truth I cannot recall the exact points of agreement and disagreement now I just remember having some points of agreement and some of disagreement. I do know I'm much more in agreement with it than I am with Calvinism. I'm not sure I want to re-study the subject again so for now I'll just let the matter drop. Ok. Something I liked from Richard Rice's perspective is he starts out not dealing with time aspects per se, such as how God sees the future or what the future is like, but deals with the reality that God experiences things in time, such as emotions. If the Greek idea were true, that God was timeless, then God could experience nothing involving a sequence, a before - now - after, so things like thinking or experiencing emotion would be impossible. And indeed, the Greek idea was that God could not experience emotion. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
joeb Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 Ok. Something I liked from Richard Rice's perspective is he starts out not dealing with time aspects per se, such as how God sees the future or what the future is like, but deals with the reality that God experiences things in time, such as emotions. If the Greek idea were true, that God was timeless, then God could experience nothing involving a sequence, a before - now - after, so things like thinking or experiencing emotion would be impossible. And indeed, the Greek idea was that God could not experience emotion. The Bible clearly eliminates this idea. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville
pnattmbtc Posted June 23, 2015 Posted June 23, 2015 The Bible clearly eliminates this idea. One would think so, but some read these statements as anthropomorphisms. Similarly with I think it's Isaiah 5 where God says that He didn't expect Israel to bring forth wild grapes, it doesn't mean He didn't really expect it, but something else, but is expressed as an anthropomorphism. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
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