The "lake of fire".

[8thdaypriest]

Revelation 20:7-9 describe Satan's release and his gathering of "the nations", and their attempted attack upon "the camp of the saints". 

CJB  Revelation 20:11 Next I saw a great white throne and the One sitting on it. Earth and heaven fled from his presence, and no place was found for them. 12 And I saw the dead, both great and small, standing in front of the throne. Books were opened; and another book was opened, the Book of Life; and the dead were judged from what was written in the books, according to what they had done. 13 The sea gave up the dead in it; and Death and Sh'ol gave up the dead in them; and they were judged, each according to what he had done. 14 Then Death and Sh'ol were hurled into the lake of fire. This is the second death - the lake of fire. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was hurled into the lake of fire. (CJB)

Revelation 21:8  But as for the cowardly, the untrustworthy, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those involved with the occult and with drugs, idol-worshippers, and all liars - their destiny is the lake burning with fire and sulfur, the second death." (CJB)

        Brimstone (#2303) is from the Greek word “theion.”  Yes - the first four letters “thei” tell us that this refers in some way to the divine.  Strong’s tells us, “brimstone was regarded as having power to purify.”  It was called “divine incense.”  When you smell exploding firecrackers, you are smelling sulfur in the gunpowder.  So brimstone smelled like burning sulfur.  

        John the prophet, in vision was shown the “lake of fire.”  He was searching for words to describe this awesome, brilliant, glorious “fire.”  It is a purifying fire.  It may NOT literally be fire in our sense of the word today.  It may not have smelled like sulfur, but John is using imagery which his readers could understand.  It is “divine fire” and it will consume the last trace of evil from the universe of God.

There are THREE "fire" events, described in Scripture.

1.  The "fire" which will consume the earth.  "The earth and the works therein will be burned up" (Peter).  This happens @ the SC, after Jesus has removed "those who are Christ's".   Mountains and islands sink.  In some places, the "elements melt with fervent heat".   'Brimstone" is melted rock.   According to Rev. 19:20, "the beast" and "the false prophet" are "thrown alive" into (a or the) "lake of fire".   They could simply be consumed in "fire" along with most of the earth.  This "fire" will leave an ash residue, which the redeemed will later "walk on" when they return to rebuilt on the earth. 

2.  The "fire of God" which will come down upon the Army of Gog/Magog.  This happens during the 8th millennium, AFTER the "rest of the dead" have been resurrected, educated in the things of God, governed by the "priests of God and of Christ", and most of them STILL choose to rebel.  If you read the account in Ezekiel, a CLEAN UP follows that battle.  Special teams are assigned to gather up the "bones" and bring them to a "city" designated for that purpose.  So the "fire" at Gog/Magog does NOT consume humans to ashes.  It is more like the "fire" that "consumed" Nadab and Abihu.   The text later says, "They carried them out by their coats." 

3.  The "lake of fire"  which is "the second death". The Devil and his angels will be cast into THIS "lake", as the Battle of Gog/Magog concludes.  

The "Great White Throne Judgment" FOLLOWS after the Gog/Magog battle, at least from the way Revelation 20 reads.   At the conclusion of this final judgment and review of the "books", (with the consent of all the redeemed) all of "the dead" whose names are NOT found written in "the Book of Life of the Lamb", are thrown into "the lake of fire". 

My question is, IF they are DEAD, in what sense are they "standing before God" ?   In what sense are they "thrown into" fire ?  I believe it is the RECORD of their lives, that stands before God.   And I believe that God (in the case of these individuals) will destroy that part of a human which He retains in order to later resurrect that individual.  It is NOT the physical body.  God does not need that in order to resurrect.  You could call it the "spirit".  It is the essence of that individual.  I call it God's "memory" of him.   The point is that this individual can NEVER be resurrected again. 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Matthew 28:2-4  A Legion of Roman soldiers “fell as dead men,” overcome by the glory of just the one angel, who came to call Christ from the tomb.

Acts 9:3-4  On the Damascus road, Saul the persecutor was blinded by this glory.

2 Thessalonians. 2:8-9  When Jesus returns, the wicked will be slain
                                “with brightness of His coming.”

Daniel 7:9-10  A “fiery stream” comes forth from the Ancient of Days.

Hebrews 12:29  “For our God is a consuming fire.”  

Deuteronomy 4:24  “For the LORD your God is a consuming fire.”

    Deuteronomy 9:3  “Therefore understand today that the LORD your God is He who goes over before you as a consuming fire. He will destroy them and bring them down before you . . .”

    WHO WILL “DWELL WITH THE DEVOURING FIRE?”

    Exodus 33:20  “But He said, You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.”

    Isaiah 33:14-17  “The sinners in Zion are afraid; Fearfulness has seized the hypocrites: ‘Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?’  He who walks righteously and speaks uprightly,’”

Isaiah 43:2   “. . . when you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned.”

Revelation 22:4  “They shall see His face, and His name shall be on their foreheads.”

    NOTE:  We will “see His face” and will not be consumed.  The saved will receive immortal spiritual bodies, and will live “in His presence.”  

    This is why “flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God”(1 Cor. 15:50).  

    The angels are spirit beings - beings of high energy.  This is why evil angels must be destroyed in “the lake of fire.”  It was “prepared for the Devil and his angels” because they could not be destroyed by physical means.

 

[8thdaypriest]

I have heard it suggested that God will resorb into Himself, that which first came forth from Him.  Sort of a matter/energy thing, where matter does not cease to exist.  It is conserved as it changes form.  A novel thought.  Unprovable of course. 

[8thdaypriest]

FOREVER AND EVER

NIV  Revelation 20:10  And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

    For human beings, the “lake of fire” is “the second death.”  But Satan, and his angels are spirit beings.  They have never “died.”  So the lake of fire would not be a “second death” - for them. 

    The Greek phrase translated as “forever and ever” (eis tous aionas ton anionon) literally means: “unto the ages of the ages.”  It is an idiomatic phrase and is difficult to translate directly into English.  It all depends on the context.  When “age” is used in connection with physical human beings, then it can mean a human lifetime.   If the human has been given “immortality” then that lifetime would be without end.  It can mean a period of time, as in Matthew 13:39,40 & 49 (from creation, or from Christ to the Second Coming).  When the subject is God or Jesus, it means eternity without end (Matt. 13:39). In the Old Testament, we have many examples where “forever” means only the life-time of an individual.

The meaning of the Hebrew ‘olam (translated “forever” - #05769) changes with the subject.  
    Here are a few verses where “ ‘olam” clearly does NOT
    convey an unlimited past, or an unlimited future:

Genesis 6:4: “of old” - meaning of the far distant human past
Exodus 21:6: “for ever” - meaning for the rest of his life
Deuteronomy 32:7: “the days of old” - meaning distant human history past
Deuteronomy 33:15: “the everlasting hills”
Joshua 8:28: “forever” - meaning it has not changed since the day it was destroyed
1 Samuel 27:8: “from of old” - meaning distant human past
Proverbs 22:28: “the ancient” - speaking of a landmark set up in the distant past
Isaiah 42:14: “a long time” - meaning for a long period of time

    So how can we understand “unto the ages of the ages?”  
    Quite simply - we cannot!   

    I understand that the “spirits” of rebellious unrepentant human beings will be instantly consumed in the lake of fire, and from that point they can never be resurrected to continue life.  I understand that only God has immortality (I Tim. 6:16).  He sustains life, and can therefore give life without end, to those whom He chooses.  

    I cannot believe that our Divine Father would sustain the life of any created being simply for torture.  There would be no purpose to such.  Perhaps the “ages” come to an end, when Satan is finally consumed.  Beyond that is simply eternity. 

Rachel Cory, prophecyviewpoint.com

Edited May 23, 2015 by 8thdaypriest

[brotherly love]

 

My question is, IF they are DEAD, in what sense are they "standing before God" ?   In what sense are they "thrown into" fire ?  I believe it is the RECORD of their lives, that stands before God.   And I believe that God (in the case of these individuals) will destroy that part of a human which He retains in order to later resurrect that individual.  It is NOT the physical body.  God does not need that in order to resurrect.  You could call it the "spirit".  It is the essence of that individual.  I call it God's "memory" of him.   The point is that this individual can NEVER be resurrected again. 

 

​The problem with annihilation is that the final enemy of God is placed under Jesus's feet. That enemy is death. To have God annihilating people "forever" does not have Jesus defeating death-it makes Him the wellspring and agent of death. The dead are those who are not born from above with life.

In another topic way back, you wrote a quick point on nobility and shame-this is where you will find your answers if you combine all the references on the topic

Edited May 24, 2015 by brotherly love

[8thdaypriest]

Well brotherly love, I'm just glad to know that someone read what I posted.  Thanks

[8thdaypriest]

Thanks to you too Stan!

[brotherly love]

Well brotherly love, I'm just glad to know that someone read what I posted.  Thanks

​It was a good post, I urge you to study the related verses with righteousness and shame-this spans the Bible and pulls the subject together instead of prooftexts going back and forth between the anniilation, universal salvation and hellfire camps.

It also brings the mysteries of the cross into sharper perspective

[8thdaypriest]

Actually, I have a study in progress on HONOR and SHAME.  Those are the two opposites through Scripture. 

[brotherly love]

Actually, I have a study in progress on HONOR and SHAME.  Those are the two opposites through Scripture. 

​If you ever want to bounce the ball back and forth on this just let me know.

[pnattmbtc]

Hi 8th day.  I think you started this post in regards to a comment of mine.  Thank you.

Kevin H. has done a lot of research in regards to his fire historically in the SDA church.  As I recall, from the very beginning, there have been differences of opinion as to whether the fire is literal or not.

[8thdaypriest]

Hi 8th day.  I think you started this post in regards to a comment of mine.  Thank you.

Kevin H. has done a lot of research in regards to his fire historically in the SDA church.  As I recall, from the very beginning, there have been differences of opinion as to whether the fire is literal or not.

​When I read the prophecies of the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem, I understand that this was dual prophecy.  The "fire" that burned Jerusalem was literal.  And the "fire" that will "burn" up this earth after the SC may also be literal.  Both WERE the "fire of God".  "Fire" that He allows, by means of His appointed "avenger" - Babylon was one such avenger, AND "fire" that emanates from His own divine person (His glory) - BOTH are described as "fire".  The context usually helps, but is not always conclusive. 

[pnattmbtc]

Reminds me of this: 

The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil; (Isa. 33:14, 15)

[Aliensanctuary]

I picture the Lake of Fire as a deep pit, located east of Israel, with surging, exploding, lava at the bottom. Visitors will indeed look into the fiery pit with horror, yet with gratitude, that it is the end of Evil.

[pnattmbtc]

brotherly love: The problem with annihilation is that the final enemy of God is placed under Jesus's feet. That enemy is death. To have God annihilating people "forever" does not have Jesus defeating death-it makes Him the wellspring and agent of death. The dead are those who are not born from above with life.

I agree with your words, but I'm not sure what you mean by them.  I'll explain how I see things, and you can comment if we're seeing things the same way, or if you had something different in mind.

I understand that sin causes death, so God's "annhiliating" the wicked is allowing them to reap the cunsequences of their own choice.  Death is defeated when sin ceases because without sin there is no death.

God could not have allowed this process to have happened sooner, before the cross especially, because the consequences of sin would not have been understood, and it would have been misunderstood as something like God doing something to those who chossed Him, like revenge.

[pnattmbtc]

I picture the Lake of Fire as a deep pit, located east of Israel, with surging, exploding, lava at the bottom. Visitors will indeed look into the fiery pit with horror, yet with gratitude, that it is the end of Evil.

Yikes!