The 144,000

[Martn]

Wow.  I must have been living in a cave for the past 65 years (with Doug Batchellor?), including the 25 years I was a Catholic.  I've investigated many interpretations of scripture; but this one is totally new to me.  I can't even begin to get my head around how you can even pull this out of scripture.  Suffice it to say that this is NOT what I believe.  Does anyone else out these find this rather - ahhh - "original"?  I've always thought (still very strongly think) that Revelation talks about a second coming where the elect are saved, the condemned are destroyed and satan bound; then the 1,000 years, then the resurrection of "the rest of the dead" and satan released from his chains, and finally the Great Day of God when all evil and death is finally and permanently destroyed. Silly me!

You never quite answered my question:

If the "ghosts" that torment people and haunt houses and pagan temples aren't demons, what are they?

The Catholic Church, a block away, just gave me this publication, "Revelation, A Divine Message of Hope," by the Catholic Information Service, Knights of Columbus. Pages 41 & 42: "First, says John, Satan is bound for a thousand years. And after this thousand year period he must be loosed for a little while. What is this thousand year period? With the Lord a thousand years is but a day (2 Pet. 3:8). This should not confuse us. If we are told that the Christian life on earth is a warfare, we are also told that the evil one cannot touch the children of God (1 John 5:18), that Christ has already invaded Satan's house and bound him (Matt. 12:29). Thus the thousand year reign is not something confined to the end of the world. It is now going on."

Sometimes I encounter even devout Catholics who haven't heard of this. Yes, it is strange I should know more about the religion than they do.

We are very plainly told that "many" Saints were resurrected along with Jesus.

Matthew 27:52.

If that resurrection wasn't first, then what was it, resurrection zero?

Since the "thousand years" (not a literal period) begins with the first resurrection, I don't see why there should be any cause for confusion. 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Well - that's interesting - to know the Catholic interpretation of John's message and vision.   So MCBGM, you're taking the Catholic position.  Is that correct? 

You said that MOST Christians believed (up until Darby) that the millennium began with the resurrection of Christ.  If what you gave us really IS Catholic doctrine.  And MOST believers WERE Catholic (until the reformation), then you could be correct.  That is how MOST Christian believers understood the millennium.  But that doesn't make it truth.

MOST Christian believers accepted images for 1400 years also - set up in their "churches".  Most accepted Easter.  MOST Christians believed that the Sabbath is Sunday. 

Doesn't make it so !!! 

[8thdaypriest]

MCBGM mentioned John Nelson Darby as the one who came up with the idea that the millennium will FOLLOW the return of Christ (pre-millennium-ism).   But Darby came along around 1835 or so.  There were several reformation teachers before Darby.   Did no one challenge the Catholic view, until Darby? 

As I understand it, Darby's view concerning the "rapture" came OUT OF his teaching called "dispensationalism" - which essentially said that God saves people by different means, depending upon WHEN they lived, and whether they were part of Israel.  Darby taught that Israel and "The Church" are two absolutely separate and distinct peoples of God.  He saves Israelites (Jews) "by works of the Law" and "the church" by grace.  Baloney - of course!!   The whole "rapture" teaching has the last "week" (of Daniel's 70 "weeks") brought forward to the last 7 years of this age.  Jesus will rapture out His church, and then go back to dealing with Jews - by works for 7 more years.

 

[8thdaypriest]

I found some history of views concerning the 1000 year reign of the martyrs (Rev. 20), in the NIV commentary, by Robert Mounce.   

Augustine - early 5th century, made the first serious effort to interpret Revelation 20 in a non-millennarian fashion.  He held that the 1000 year period was to be taken as the interval between the first advent and the final conflict.   Jesus BOUND Satan at His first advent.  The "first resurrection" was the spiritual birth of believers.   This sounds very similar to the Catholic view outlined by MCBGM.  

Justin Martyr - middle of second century - said the properly instructed Christian was assured of bodily resurrection, to be followed by 1000 years in Jerusalem.  Irenaeus - near the end of the second century - believed in an earthly millennium during which the saints and martyrs would be rewarded. 

There is no reason to suppose that the period of "a thousand years" represented anything other than 1000 years - to John.   It is NOT allegory. 

QUESTION:  If martyrs for the name of Jesus, come to life and reign with Him as "kings and priests" for 1000 years, HOW could this 1000 years have begun back when Jesus was raised from the dead?  There WERE NO MARTYRS for the name of Jesus BEFORE His death and resurrection.   

[8thdaypriest]

I realize we have diverged away from the 144,000, to the question of the millennium. 

[Martn]

MCBGM mentioned John Nelson Darby as the one who came up with the idea that the millennium will FOLLOW the return of Christ (pre-millennium-ism). 

 

NO. That is not what I said at all. I said Darby was the first who came up with the idea of a third advent (based on the imaginings of a retarded girl), with a seven year period between the second and third advents, which later Adventists such as Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh-day Adventists replaced with the millennium. Up until the Adventist period, about 200 years ago, most Protestants and most Catholics, alike, believed the Second Coming would not happen until after the millennial period. Premillennialism was always a minority view. 

[Martn]

 

 

There is no reason to suppose that the period of "a thousand years" represented anything other than 1000 years - to John.   It is NOT allegory. 

QUESTION:  If martyrs for the name of Jesus, come to life and reign with Him as "kings and priests" for 1000 years, HOW could this 1000 years have begun back when Jesus was raised from the dead?  There WERE NO MARTYRS for the name of Jesus BEFORE His death and resurrection.   

Not allegory. Figure of speech. A "thousand years" was a figure of speech in use at the time, as we see in 2 Peter 3:8, meaning an indefinite period of time. John's is a book of symbolism and thus to read symbolically, unless of course topics addressed there are treated literally, in other parts of the Bible. We find the "thousand years" addressed elsewhere, however, never in literal terms, but always figuratively.

This seems off topic because it is forgotten that this, at least for me, has been in answer to the question of how the 144,000 could be the only ones who go to heaven when other people also are to be saved, on earth. I have not veered away from that, even though repeatedly asked to explain my views on the state of dead, something I would do only elsewhere.

The reason there are resurrected martyrs during the thousand years is because we are still living during the thousand years, right now, up until the Second Coming, at which the martyrs, the dead, are said to "rise first," not afterward.

Since the first resurrection was at the resurrection of Jesus (Matthew 27:52, 53), and since the "thousand years" begin with the first resurrection (Revelation 20:4, 5), how can there be any confusion over the idea that we are living through the "thousand years" right now, and that Jesus, therefore, returns for the second (not third) time at the end of the millennium?

[JoeMo]

MCBGM said:  "The 144,000 are indeed an exclusive club. Very few in number.  Are they the only ones who will be saved?   I don't think so.
I do believe, however, they are the only ones who get to go to heaven."

That is a position still taken by "orthodox" Jehovah's Witnesses, as I was told by a JW yesterday.  Is the little retarded girl you have mentioned earlier EGW?

[8thdaypriest]

QUESTION:  If martyrs for the name of Jesus, come to life and reign with Him as "kings and priests" for 1000 years, HOW could this 1000 years have begun back when Jesus was raised from the dead?  There WERE NO MARTYRS for the name of Jesus BEFORE His death and resurrection.  

[Martn]

QUESTION:  If martyrs for the name of Jesus, come to life and reign with Him as "kings and priests" for 1000 years, HOW could this 1000 years have begun back when Jesus was raised from the dead?  There WERE NO MARTYRS for the name of Jesus BEFORE His death and resurrection.  

The millennium is timeless.

Indefinite.

2 Peter 3:8

Could be a day. Could be an aeon. Both are the same with God. No matter how brief or long the reign, it is all as as though it were a thousand years. Even those raised at the very end of it experience nothing less than those raised at the beginning.

The thousand years begin with the first --1st-- resurrection.

Revelation 20:4, 5

Not just the resurrection of Jesus alone. For MANY Saints were resurrected that day and came out of their graves along with Jesus.

Matthew 27:52, 53 

If that resurrection wasn't first, then what was it, resurrection zero?

[Martn]

Is the little retarded girl you have mentioned earlier EGW?

NO

[Martn]

That is a position still taken by "orthodox" Jehovah's Witnesses

I'm curious. Do Jehovah's Witnesses also believe in the asexuality of this class?

[Martn]

the asexuality of this class

In my minds eye they are completely genderless. Not male. Not female. Not she. Not he.

[8thdaypriest]

The millennium is timeless.

Indefinite.

2 Peter 3:8

Could be a day. Could be an aeon. Both are the same with God. No matter how brief or long the reign, it is all as as though it were a thousand years. Even those raised at the very end of it experience nothing less than those raised at the beginning.

The thousand years begin with the first --1st-- resurrection.

Revelation 20:4, 5

Not just the resurrection of Jesus alone. For MANY Saints were resurrected that day and came out of their graves along with Jesus.

Matthew 27:52, 53 

If that resurrection wasn't first, then what was it, resurrection zero?

I do not agree with you - that "The millennium is timeless."  "Timeless" means LESS - TIME, meaning without time.  Time certainly EXISTS.  We have the moon, and sun, and stars for times and seasons.  In the "new earth" we will have TIME.  All flesh - will go up to worship the LORD at His "appointed times". 

TIME was created.  God existed BEFORE time existed.  He is therefore said to be "from everlasting".  

And there is time - without END.  (That one describes the dominion of Jesus Christ  - once established at the judgment of Daniel 7.)  The Bible uses terms like "eternal", "everlasting", "forever and ever"  or "without end".   The redeemed receive "eternal life" - life that never ends.

"His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed." (Dan 7:14 NIV)

I do not believe that the "many saints" were resurrected at the moment that Jesus came back to life.   Jesus was the "firstfruits".  No other grain could be harvested UNTIL the firstfruits were presented at the Temple.   So - Jesus was raised FIRST, and He then resurrected the others.

 Every harvest had the SAME sequence of events.  FIRSTfruits - FIRST.   The Spring harvest of barley, was only the first of THREE harvests - and each harvest had its firstfruits.  And the "firstfruits" were presented before the LORD before the rest of the harvest could be gathered in.

[8thdaypriest]

The sequence of events in Revelation has Babylon falling (Rev. 18).  In Heaven a great multitude are shouting "It's time for the marriage of the Lamb, because His wife has made herself ready."  Jesus comes on a white horse, WITH "the armies of Heaven" (an image that the Rabbis believed would be fulfilled at Messiah's coming) to gather His bride.   The BEAST (with his armies) and the FALSE PROPHET try to fight against Jesus, but are defeated and thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20).  That's NOT something we have already seen!  THEN Jesus casts the Devil into the bottomless pit FOR "a thousand years". 

I guess you're going to say that this is all symbolism of Jesus defeating Satan at the cross.  I don't buy that. 

The BEAST and the FALSE PROPHET are thrown alive into the lake of fire, at the same event when Devil is "thrown into the pit".   If the BEAST has not yet been thrown into the "lake of fire" then Satan has NOT YET been imprisoned in the bottom less pit.

Many years AFTER Jesus ascended to Heaven, John was told concerning THE BEAST:

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 "There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 "And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. 12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 "These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 "These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."
 (Rev 17:8 NKJ)  The Ten Kings attack and burn the "harlot" (Babylon).  That is what causes her fall. 

So - many years AFTER Jesus ascended to His Father, one "head" of the BEAST existed,  and another "head" was "yet to come".  And the "ten kings" had NOT YET attacked and burned "the harlot Babylon.  THAT MEANS the BEAST still existed.  The BEAST had not been consumed in "the lake of fire" - NOT YET.  And that means the Devil had NOT YET been imprisoned in the "bottomless pit".  And THAT MEANS the 1000 years had not started. 

[brotherly love]

The sequence of events in Revelation has Babylon falling (Rev. 18).  In Heaven a great multitude are shouting "It's time for the marriage of the Lamb, because His wife has made herself ready."  Jesus comes on a white horse, WITH "the armies of Heaven" (an image that the Rabbis believed would be fulfilled at Messiah's coming) to gather His bride.   The BEAST (with his armies) and the FALSE PROPHET try to fight against Jesus, but are defeated and thrown into the lake of fire (Rev. 19:20).  That's NOT something we have already seen!  THEN Jesus casts the Devil into the bottomless pit FOR "a thousand years". 

I guess you're going to say that this is all symbolism of Jesus defeating Satan at the cross.  I don't buy that. 

The BEAST and the FALSE PROPHET are thrown alive into the lake of fire, at the same event when Devil is "thrown into the pit".   If the BEAST has not yet been thrown into the "lake of fire" then Satan has NOT YET been imprisoned in the bottom less pit.

Many years AFTER Jesus ascended to Heaven, John was told concerning THE BEAST:

The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 "There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 "And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. 12 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 "These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. 14 "These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful."
 (Rev 17:8 NKJ)  The Ten Kings attack and burn the "harlot" (Babylon).  That is what causes her fall. 

So - many years AFTER Jesus ascended to His Father, one "head" of the BEAST existed,  and another "head" was "yet to come".  And the "ten kings" had NOT YET attacked and burned "the harlot Babylon.  THAT MEANS the BEAST still existed.  The BEAST had not been consumed in "the lake of fire" - NOT YET.  And that means the Devil had NOT YET been imprisoned in the "bottomless pit".  And THAT MEANS the 1000 years had not started. 

What is the text trying to communicate to the original intended recipients of the epistle of revelation? The riddle given in revelation is connected to the phrase that the recipients would be able understand the vision with "wisdom"

⁹ “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. ¹⁰ They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. ¹¹ The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

How much wisdom could a first century persecuted bride in Asia minor muster in order to understand a 21 century beast and harlot? The text does not say that with speculation the riddle could be solved. Speculation takes us off the pages of the text and into the imaginations of other people, and has always been 100 percent wrong, 100 percent of the time.

If you want to understand the riddle of the epistle to 7 churches in revelation 17, you have to stay in the text, and the first step is to understand that Jesus points to a former persecution by a Syrian madman, and uses this to illustrate a persecution that would mimic this historic castasprophy that alsmost wiped out the faithful assembly of the old testament.

[8thdaypriest]

brotherly love

I agree that no one has "figured it out" - YET.  The best we can say is that persecution IS coming.  And Jesus ultimately WINS.  There are LOTS of CLUES. 

I don't think we should just ignore the Book until the time comes for those prophecies to come true.  We need to know what it says, so that WHEN the time comes, we will recognize the time, and the Evil "false prophet".   

[brotherly love]

This came up in a casual conversation.  Are the 144,000 made up of males and females?

 

I know there is very little said about this elite group.  Interested in a response.

Some will tell you that this is an elite group. For example: JW lore will try to twist the scripture that there is an elite heavenly class and a common earthly class according to the 144,000. Dispensationalists and Christian Zionists will twist the scripture by claiming that there are two classes of people composed of Jews and non Jews.

The reason I say "twist" the scriptures is because the common thread spun by both of these camps is one of elitism of different groups of faith. The text is trying to communicate relationship-not elitism.

There has only been one covenant community, one faith and one church connected by the cross. One church of faith on one side of the cross that went through the cross and out the other side. One church that looked forward to Jesus, and the church that looks back at the first Advent. One church.

In revelation, John is given a description of a Lion, and looks and sees a Lamb. In the same manner John is given the description of 144,000 and then looks and sees a great multitude. Like the Lamb and the Lion, this is a different vantage point of the same entity. One vision is that of Jesus and the other vision is the full compliment of the people of God-not an elite group. We dont claim that the Lion and the Lamb are to different entities, and neither is the 144,000 and the great multitude.

Revelation 21 picks up on this theme of the whole compliment of the assembly of God before the cross and after the cross

“Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” ¹⁰ And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. ¹¹ It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. ¹² It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. ¹³ There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. ¹⁴ The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

The description is of the church before the cross, the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles who symbolize true Covenant Israel going out to the world not contained by borders of culture-the whole compliment of the people of God. The rest of Chapter 21 carry this pattern further:

¹⁶ The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia^[c] in length, and as wide and high as it is long. ¹⁷ The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits^[d] thick.^[e]

As for the 144,000 of great multiutude being only men, or virgins, this also is about relationship-not literal Jewish men or virgins

Revelation has the thread of the exodus spun through it. Moses was foretold that there would be others raised up like himself, and one would be greater than himself-they should listen to Him. Harlot Israel did not listen to both Moses not Jesus, but faithful Israel did listen to both.

In the exodus, unfaithful Israel made themselves a golden bull/beast. Those who were faithful to Moses/God stood beside him. In the same manner faithful Israel stand beside the Lamb.

Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

In the Exodus, those who were unfiathful had judgment poured out on them, and this is the thrust of Revelation-judgment was coming soon on unfaithful Israel depicted as a harlot.

This is a very quick summary, but please stay in the text and dont let others gather you around themselves by their own speculations and imagination-they have been 100 percent wrong 100 percent of the time

 

 

 

 

 

[brotherly love]

brotherly love

I agree that no one has "figured it out" - YET.  The best we can say is that persecution IS coming.  And Jesus ultimately WINS.  There are LOTS of CLUES. 

I don't think we should just ignore the Book until the time comes for those prophecies to come true.  We need to know what it says, so that WHEN the time comes, we will recognize the time, and the Evil "false prophet".   

So then the epistle of revelation were completely meaningless to the original intended audience and clairvoyance,divination, speculation and imagination are needed-not wisdom in order to figure it out? I did not say nobody has not figured it out-I am trying to prompt you to stay in the pages of the text so you can figure it out with wisdom-not speculation

You are right, Jesus always wins, and the pattern of the bible is to give quickly coming events in order to encourage the faithful. We can take this message and apply it to every event for the universal church in every epic of time under persecution.

Edited June 22, 2015 by brotherly love

[JoeMo]

I'm curious. Do Jehovah's Witnesses also believe in the asexuality of this class?

I did a cursory Google search on this; and couldn't find any info on this.  The majority of the references I saw seemed to state that there JWs believe that only the 144,000 go to heaven (without regard to gender or age).  They also believe that the window for heavenly citizenship closed in 1935.

Other denominations believe that the 144,000 will be exclusively men (Because they did not defile themselves with women) or exclusively women (because they are virgins.  I found absolutely no references is the first 200 listings under "Gender of 144,000" on Google of the 144,000 being genderless.  I infer that a "genderless" 144,000 is NOT what most (or even a lot of) people believe.  Ipersonally believe that the 144,000 are "special" (like maybe Jesus' personal entourage?); but heaven will be populated by a multitude that is as numerous as the grains of sand.

Rev. 3: 7-8 refers to a gate that Jesus opens that no one can shut.  I infer this gate to be the gate of heaven.  If Jesus opens it, what's to keep others beside the 144,000 out? If the gate is not heaven's gate, what is it?

Edited June 22, 2015 by JoeMo

[Martn]

Laypersons often make the mistake of assuming events in Revelation are presented in chronological order. They are not, as has been well documented too many times to count. Obviously in fact, the same ideas are repeated over and over and over again. Each segment is but a more detailed retelling of same event presented previously.

Naturally words pile up to bury (cover over) one basic fact:

The millennium begins at the FIRST resurrection --of the Saints. Revelation 20:4, 5.

In no uncertain terms we are told this already happened --2000 years ago. Matthew 27:52. 

The very instant Jesus died --even before he himself came back to life-- there was a great earthquake which opened up the graves so that "many bodies" of the Saints arose (not just a few, but many), though they of course waited in place until Jesus also arose. (Old harvest schedules do not completely apply therefore.)

Matthew 27:52

If that resurrection wasn't 1st, then what was it?

 

Edited June 22, 2015 by MCBGM

[JoeMo]

 

In no uncertain terms we are told this already happened --2000 years ago. Matthew 27:52.

The very instant Jesus died --even before he himself came back to life-- there was a great earthquake which opened up the graves so that "many bodies" of the Saints arose (not just a few, but many), though they of course waited in place until Jesus also arose. (Old harvest schedules do not completely apply therefore.)

If that resurrection wasn't 1st, then what was it?

 

If this happened at Jesus' resurrection, why does John (who wrote about it decades later) refer to it as a future event? Where does it say in scripture that those who were resurrected were the 144,000?  I agree that it was a special resurrection; but so were the resurrections of several people that Jesus raised from the dead while He was alive.  Where does it say that any of them were taken to heaven?  Did Lazarus go to heaven with Jesus or did He die the first death all over again?  David was a man after God's own heart; and the apple of His eye; but Peter clearly states in Acts (written AFTER Christ's death and resurrection) that David is still in his grave (Acts 2:22-35).  Surely a biblical hero like David would have been among the 144,000.  I think you are isolating proof texts out of context here rather than making logical conclusions from the preponderance of scripture.

Edited June 22, 2015 by JoeMo

[brotherly love]

I found some history of views concerning the 1000 year reign of the martyrs (Rev. 20), in the NIV commentary, by Robert Mounce.   

Augustine - early 5th century, made the first serious effort to interpret Revelation 20 in a non-millennarian fashion.  He held that the 1000 year period was to be taken as the interval between the first advent and the final conflict.   Jesus BOUND Satan at His first advent.  The "first resurrection" was the spiritual birth of believers.   This sounds very similar to the Catholic view outlined by MCBGM.  

Justin Martyr - middle of second century - said the properly instructed Christian was assured of bodily resurrection, to be followed by 1000 years in Jerusalem.  Irenaeus - near the end of the second century - believed in an earthly millennium during which the saints and martyrs would be rewarded. 

There is no reason to suppose that the period of "a thousand years" represented anything other than 1000 years - to John.   It is NOT allegory. 

QUESTION:  If martyrs for the name of Jesus, come to life and reign with Him as "kings and priests" for 1000 years, HOW could this 1000 years have begun back when Jesus was raised from the dead?  There WERE NO MARTYRS for the name of Jesus BEFORE His death and resurrection.   

Then God owning the cattle on a thousand hills stops after 1001 hills? There is no reason to suppose that the textual term means anything more than 1000 hills. There is a difference of a literary device and allegory. Metaphor is used to highlight the text, while a person using allegory massages the text and the only interpretive tool is the imagination of the reader.

[8thdaypriest]

I did a cursory Google search on this; and couldn't find any info on this.  The majority of the references I saw seemed to state that there JWs believe that only the 144,000 go to heaven (without regard to gender or age).  They also believe that the window for heavenly citizenship closed in 1935.

Other denominations believe that the 144,000 will be exclusively men (Because they did not defile themselves with women) or exclusively women (because they are virgins.  I found absolutely no references is the first 200 listings under "Gender of 144,000" on Google of the 144,000 being genderless.  I infer that a "genderless" 144,000 is NOT what most (or even a lot of) people believe.  Ipersonally believe that the 144,000 are "special" (like maybe Jesus' personal entourage?); but heaven will be populated by a multitude that is as numerous as the grains of sand.

Rev. 3: 7-8 refers to a gate that Jesus opens that no one can shut.  I infer this gate to be the gate of heaven.  If Jesus opens it, what's to keep others beside the 144,000 out? If the gate is not heaven's gate, what is it?

The "gate" may be the way to eternal life. 

 Matthew 7:14 "But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (NIV)

[8thdaypriest]

Some will tell you that this is an elite group. For example: JW lore will try to twist the scripture that there is an elite heavenly class and a common earthly class according to the 144,000. Dispensationalists and Christian Zionists will twist the scripture by claiming that there are two classes of people composed of Jews and non Jews.

The reason I say "twist" the scriptures is because the common thread spun by both of these camps is one of elitism of different groups of faith. The text is trying to communicate relationship-not elitism.

There has only been one covenant community, one faith and one church connected by the cross. One church of faith on one side of the cross that went through the cross and out the other side. One church that looked forward to Jesus, and the church that looks back at the first Advent. One church.

In revelation, John is given a description of a Lion, and looks and sees a Lamb. In the same manner John is given the description of 144,000 and then looks and sees a great multitude. Like the Lamb and the Lion, this is a different vantage point of the same entity. One vision is that of Jesus and the other vision is the full compliment of the people of God-not an elite group. We dont claim that the Lion and the Lamb are to different entities, and neither is the 144,000 and the great multitude.

Revelation 21 picks up on this theme of the whole compliment of the assembly of God before the cross and after the cross

“Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” ¹⁰ And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God. ¹¹ It shone with the glory of God, and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal. ¹² It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. ¹³ There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. ¹⁴ The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

The description is of the church before the cross, the 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles who symbolize true Covenant Israel going out to the world not contained by borders of culture-the whole compliment of the people of God. The rest of Chapter 21 carry this pattern further:

¹⁶ The city was laid out like a square, as long as it was wide. He measured the city with the rod and found it to be 12,000 stadia^[c] in length, and as wide and high as it is long. ¹⁷ The angel measured the wall using human measurement, and it was 144 cubits^[d] thick.^[e]

As for the 144,000 of great multiutude being only men, or virgins, this also is about relationship-not literal Jewish men or virgins

Revelation has the thread of the exodus spun through it. Moses was foretold that there would be others raised up like himself, and one would be greater than himself-they should listen to Him. Harlot Israel did not listen to both Moses not Jesus, but faithful Israel did listen to both.

In the exodus, unfaithful Israel made themselves a golden bull/beast. Those who were faithful to Moses/God stood beside him. In the same manner faithful Israel stand beside the Lamb.

Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.

In the Exodus, those who were unfiathful had judgment poured out on them, and this is the thrust of Revelation-judgment was coming soon on unfaithful Israel depicted as a harlot.

This is a very quick summary, but please stay in the text and dont let others gather you around themselves by their own speculations and imagination-they have been 100 percent wrong 100 percent of the time

 

 

 

 

 

I liked your interpretation.  I agree that the 144,000 may represent all of the redeemed people of God.  The ENTIRE New Jerusalem is "the wife" of "the Lamb". 

An Israelite man was FORBIDDEN by God's Law, to remarry a woman he had divorced.  A high priest was ONLY to marry a "virgin daughter of Israel".  He was forbidden to marry "a widow".

Jesus is our High Priest.  He is the High Priest of Israel (all 12 tribes).  He "divorced" the 10 Northern Tribes.  The 2 Southern Tribes were "widowed" when their LORD died.  How can those He divorced ever become part of His bride?   HOW?  The LORD wipes away "her" history - wipes clean her record of sins and divorce and widowhood.  That renders "her" a virgin - once again.  And "she" (redeemed Israel) can "marry" the High Priest - Jesus.