So many people are self deceived

[Guest]

ok, how do i start.

i post this to hopefully help others, i get a lot of time to think about God and God doesn't give wisdom and understanding to hide it under a bush..

it has never sat right with me when people say "God led me to" "God gave me an impression" "God gave me this bible passage for you" - i have seen this done a lot, no group (even SDA's) are exempt. it finally came to me yesterday how i can talk to people about this.

just about everyone knows the story about the man who faced prison for something he didn't do, he prayed and believed that God led him to confess that he did the crime. Anyway, while he was in prison people took notice of his faith and eventually he turned a lot of convicts to God (very short outline here), and eventually the guilty person was found or confessed and he was released.

it sounds like God did indeed lead him, as he certainly used him mightily in the prison.
but the truth is that God did not lead him as he thought - this is why it is so important to know your bible,, God cannot lie, we are to be an image of Christ, God helps mold us into an image of Christ - God would never ask us to lie as the person did when he confessed he did it.

There is no doubting that God used him mightily when he was in there :-)

hope this helps someone else - and again, know your bible.

[barnz]

It's true we shouldn't lie, but I don't understand how that is related to people saying "God led me to" or "God gave me an impression" or "God gave me this bible passage for you?" Are you saying whenever someone says these things, they are always lying?

[Aliensanctuary]

 "God led me to" "God gave me an impression" "God gave me this bible passage for you"

Not to mention, "God told me" or "God's match for you". Maybe they are spoken in sincerity, but those kind of statements raise the red BS flags for me.

[phkrause]

Not to mention, "God told me" or "God's match for you". Maybe they are spoken in sincerity, but those kind of statements raise the red BS flags for me.

Why not?? God gave me my wife! Pretty much all in my life are a result of God's guidence!! Is that BS too????? By the way, its probably not God the Father or God the Son, but more likely God the HS!! Didn't Jesus say that his father would sent us the Comforter?? Or did he also lie and lets put in in your words "BS all of us??"

[hch]

...it has never sat right with me when people say "God led me to" "God gave me an impression" "God gave me this bible passage for you" - i have seen this done a lot, no group (even SDA's) are exempt...

On the other hand if God is in it we should beware of not giving Him the glory.

While driving to work, I thought "Wouldn't it be nice to have Ann's job?"

I was driving all over the place and the pay was not so great. Ann had a plush job with a salary.

Covetousness! I rebuked myself and prayed for forgiveness right then and there as I drove.

Adding "I don't know what put that thought in my head Lord, but bless Ann and if it is from You; Thy will be done."

That afternoon Ann knocked on my door, "I just resigned and your name came to mind.

I suggested you to the boss and he is open to having you apply if you are interested."

I didn't get the job. Then the man that got it left abruptly after only a few months, the boss that had passed me by called to offer me the job with an $8.00 raise above what Ann had been making.

God led me to that job. And I have no doubt that He has led me on other occasions. Does that mean that I cannot be self deceived? No! It only means that God leads in the affairs of men and we should follow and we should give Him the glory.

If we stop following or stop giving Him the glory, will He stop leading?

I don't want to try to find out. I'd rather have folks scratch their head when I say "God led me to" "God gave me an impression" "God gave me this Bible passage..." because I know He has done it for me and He will continue to do it for me if I will let Him lead.

 

[whbae]

Isn't it nice to have a strong faith to say that God is leading him in every way!

[Geoarrge]

Part of the problem is that if somebody develops a skewed characterization of God, and lets that imaginary character dictate life decisions, is the real God always going to intervene and correct that person right away?  If that person is acting in good faith, perhaps the situation will work out for good anyway, as in Chrysalis' example.  Still, does saying that God leads me in every way offer some kind of magical protection from having bad ideas? Will He be embarrassed to let me fail if I give Him credit for everything?  He doesn't seem to be bothered by seeing me accomplish nothing for ten years. 

[JoeMo]

I have had things happen to me that could ONLY be by God's leading.  Many times I don't even realize it until I look back on it in retrospect.  I'll sometimes do or say things that are very atypical for me; and wonder why I am doing it.  Later, I'll see the benefit and think "Hmmm; I wonder if God led me to do that?"  I will readily answer "YES!" and give Him the glory and thanks.  I'd rather just assume that it came from God rather than think how wonderful I am.  Keeps me humble and keeps God in control.

[Naomi]

That is a good testimony JoeMo ... thanks for sharing!  We often tend to overlook God's leading and sometimes what I consider minor miracles.  We look for the big flashes and overlook what saved us from being burned.

[hch]

In the book "None of these diseases" the author shows that if we follow God's health laws and do His will, God will bless His people with none of the diseases that plagued the Egyptians for example.

But as I recall when the book begins, the author is getting up from a ham dinner. The gist of the book is worthy of consideration, but from the onset, it would appear that the author was not practicing what he is preaching. Was it  self-deception or a lack of understanding every particular?

The tendency to self-deception is a human trait akin to: once saved always saved. God can and does lead His people. But humans can get proud and wander from the straight and narrow while thinking all is well.

I heard a sermon about a car on an icy road being pulled out of the ditch. The tow truck had blocked the road so Pastor Davidson had to stop and wait until the obstructing car was on its way. But when the tow truck got the stranded car on its way, he continued to block the road and make the preacher wait. The tow truck driver walked over to Pastor Davidson's car and asked if he would like to be pulled out of the ditch. Pastor Davidson said that he had stopped on the road to wait for the tow truck to finish, and he was not in the ditch. But when he got out of his car and looked, he discovered that while his car had idled on the road; due to the ice and slant of the pavement, his two right tires had imperceptibly slid into the ditch. He was happy that the tow truck driver had noticed his situation and offered help before leaving.

Sometimes it takes someone from outside of our perspective to point out our real state of being like the tow truck driver seeing Pastor Davidson's situation from a different perspective. But too often a situation arises where the self-deceived try to help the self-deceived to see their error (or those who they think are in error) and it does not go well.

 

 

 

[Gail]

Don't underestimate God's ability to work a good end to even a lie. I am in the church today because my first contact agreed to baptise my baby when I asked. He did qualify by offering me Bible studies first, but if he had refused me who knows where I would have turned.

I am reminded of Corrie Ten Boom's story of hiding Jews during WWII. Her sister would never tell a lie under any circumstances... When the Gestapo arrived and demanded to know where the refugees were hiding, the sister said, Under the table. They were under the floorboards. Corrie in a similar situation never betrayed her wards by her words, believing in the greater principle of saving lives of the oppressed. God honored BOTH women by helping them in their distress. That really spoke to me. 

[debbym]

i cannot take any responsibility for other's self deception, but i have heard a small voice behind me saying, "this is the way walk in it."

i cannot concern myself with all the voices other's may hear, some will say, Jesus is in the desert lets go hear him.  I have heard the warning to not go.

When the word of God speaks and anyone hears, and knows it is the voice of God saying, Behold it is I who stands at the door knocking, whoever opens the door and lets Him come in will live.

[Gerr]

"Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall."

"There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof is the way of death."

[Guest]

It's true we shouldn't lie, but I don't understand how that is related to people saying "God led me to" or "God gave me an impression" or "God gave me this bible passage for you?" Are you saying whenever someone says these things, they are always lying?

not at all, what i am saying is that quite often people are saying these things "are from God" when it is there own thoughts.

eg. if i explain something and then someone comes back with "God gave me this for you" i am very sceptical.... if someone comes up to me without knowing and says...... do you get my drift, the likelihood of it being their own thoughts is very high.

[Gail]

I agree

[Guest]

wow, there are a lot of good comments

please understand that the reason for this thread was not to invoke "i am right, you are wrong" debate - but rather point out how much people are lead by their own thoughts instead of - anyway, there can be a lot of damage claiming something is from God when it isn't. something may be true from the Bible but it may not be the right time for God's reveiling...... why does something have to be "from God" anyway, does it give more authority to the person telling it? i am always careful to say "the bible says this" or "this is not something God has told me, but i think this ---------- according to his word".

to give some examples - i had a vision from God that i didn't understand, i asked 2 christians (they knew their bible) , the first one said "God gave me" and proceeded to give a false interpretation (i had no idea but it didn't sit right with me), the second said "i think it means" and quoted the Bible, the second one hit the nail on the head and i knew instantly (i assume the Holy Spirit inside me) that it was right and correct.

thankyou for taking the time to listen and i hope this helps understand where i was coming from.

just out of interest, when i was a teenager i thought i heard God's voice (only once) and convinced myself - when i was in my early thirties i did hear God voice (only once) and i can tell you the first one was a lie and the second left no doubt - even though both were biblical.

thanks for listening.

[Aliensanctuary]

 "God led me to" "God gave me an impression" "God gave me this bible passage for you"

Statements like these can be used to manipulate others into submission or gullibility. None of us have a 2-way communications link with YHVH, yet, so we should look with a jaundiced eye at anyone making these bold claims of privileged communication. If we actually had a "face-to-face" encounter with YHVH we would likely not make these kind of claims.

Or did he also lie and lets put in in your words "BS all of us??"

?????? 

BS can also mean "Baloney Sandwich". Today's religions serve far too many toxic Baloney Sandwiches.

[hch]

Isn't it nice to have a strong faith to say that God is leading him in every way!

When all is said and done: there are only two leaders.

If  God is not leading, Satan must be leading.

[pnattmbtc]

So many people are self deceived.

I'm so glad I'm not one of them. 

[JoeMo]

 what i am saying is that quite often people are saying these things "are from God" when it is there own thoughts.

I am one who firmly believes that God talks to us.  Yet, I agree wholheartedly that many times what people think is from God actually IS their imagination!  There is a risk factor to saying "God told me" or "God showed me".  It is difficult many times to tell the difference between your own self-voice and God's voice.  To proclaim that something comes from God is a matter of faith; and it involves risk.  There are indeed people who use "God told me" to manipulate others and cut off all challenges.  How do you disagree with God?  But I believe that many people who pull the "God showed me" card are sincere; but end up being sincerely wrong.

At the risk of incurring the wrath of some of the saints out there, how many examples are there in EGW's writings where she said "God showed me"; and it i is in error (or at least appears to be).  The one that comes to mind is when she said tha God showed her that some present would never see death.  If that is true, there are some REALLY OLD Adventists out there somewhere.

When I believe that God has given me a word for someone else and He orders me to deliver it; I usually start my delivery with "This might be my imagination, but I think God just showed me ..."  Sometimes I'm wrong; it WAS my imagination.  But sometimes I'm correct; it WAS God. At any rate, I'm willing to take the risk of looking like a deluded moron when I am convicted that God says "Go tell them".  Take a look at some of my older posts out there if you don't think I'm willing to look like a moron.  God's message is more important than my dignity.

Edited July 7, 2015 by JoeMo
correct misspelled words

[pnattmbtc]

Actually what happened is she said an angel said some present would never see death.  One interpretation is that Christ could have come in this time period, but didn't (for example, because of a lack of cooperation).  As I recall, around 1903 or 1904 she wrote that Christ was bitterly disappointed that His coming didn't happen.

[JoeMo]

Actually what happened is she said an angel said some present would never see death.  One interpretation is that Christ could have come in this time period, but didn't (for example, because of a lack of cooperation).  As I recall, around 1903 or 1904 she wrote that Christ was bitterly disappointed that His coming didn't happen.

Whether it was an angel or God, if the angel wasn't an evil angel he would be telling the truth from the throne.  I have a hard time believing that Jesus thought He would be coming to earth; but that He was mistaken.  Jesus don't make mistakes like that.

Edited July 7, 2015 by JoeMo
correct misspelled words

[pnattmbtc]

Here's the food for worms quote:

I was shown the company present at the Conference, Said the angel: "Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus." Ellen G. White,1 Testimonies, p. 131-132. May 27, 1856.

The other one, about Christ's being disappointed, will be harder to find.  It's not at all surprising to me, but one's view of the future will make a difference as to how one views such things.

[B/W Photodude]

I have a hard time believing that Jesus thought He would be coming to earth; but that He was mistaken.  Jesus don't make mistakes like that.

Perhaps the Father continues to be the only one who knows the day and hour.

[pnattmbtc]

 what i am saying is that quite often people are saying these things "are from God" when it is there own thoughts.

This is quite an interesting subject.  The first course I took at the Seminar was on Revelation and Inspiration, and the professor made the point that we often think in terms of inspiration being a combined product (human and divine) whereas revelation is only divine.  He made the point that both revelation and inspiration are a combined product.

The Spirit of Prophecy tells us that God is not on trial in either logic or rhetoric in the Bible.  The Bible is a book we know to be inspired, and yet we should be guarded even here, in terms of how we should be referring to God's logic or rhetoric, or, by inference, thoughts.  How much more so in our own lives.

Just from the standpoint of language, the very moment God humbles Himself to communicate to us, He is confined by our language, a product of a merely human mind, and after thousands of years of sin.  That God can communicate with us so eloquently is a tribute to His greatness, but we can hardly ascribe to God what we, as humans, think (in terms of being God's own thoughts, I mean; certainly our having certain thoughts we can ascribe to God, as being involved in the process that led to our having such thoughts).