For the glory of God': Entire staff in Tenn. county clerk’s office resigns over same-sex marriage

[Aliensanctuary]

Too bad these county clerks and support staff aren't all Muslim. The govt. would likely be groveling in order to accommodate their religious beliefs.

There are still countries where it is a crime to be homosexual.

Edited September 7, 2015 by Aliensanctuary

[Robert]

The time has come when people  have had to leave their  jobs rather than violate their religious beliefs.   These government employees should resign.

 

Well, Greg, at first I rejected that she should resign as a matter of principle. 

Today I spoke with a co-worker who takes the same position that you do, i.e., get another job.  My co-worker said, "Rob, what if an obese person went to MacDonald's and ordered, but the employee refused him on the ground of gluttony/obesity. Would that employee have that right?"  His answer was "yes", but he would have to get another job.

 Well, my co-worker has a point. So for now (I'm still thinking this out) I think you are right...

Edited September 7, 2015 by Robert

[Gregory Matthews]

Robert, you are gracious.

[Gregory Matthews]

The protections, under the law, that a government official has differ from those that a person working for a private employer may have.  [NOTE:  I have personally been involved in such cases for years.  In this position, I have personally represented employees before administrative law judges.  Most, but not all, of these cases did not involve religious issues.  But, I often dwelt with such cases in their initial stages prior to being taken up by others.]

Further, in the case of the flight attendant, I believe that the airline may prevail.  That one is not a "slam dunk" for the employee.

In my comments, I am arguing from the status of the law, not the Bible. When I go before a  judge, the fundamental issue is the law.  The religious beliefs of the person are secondary.

 

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Just in case anyone is thinking:

1) No, I am not a licensed attorney.

2) No, I have never attended law school.

3) No, I never practiced law.  What I did, did not constitute the practice of law.  NOTE: I once had a friend, now dead, who made her living litigating FICA cases.  She was effective and law firms would hire her to litigate for them.  But she did not practice law and she was not a licensed attorney, as she had previously surrendered her license  as  an attorney.  But that loss of her license did not prevent her from litigating such cases.

4) Yes, I was trained directly by judges (and others) in the courts where I potentially represented clients.  One such seminar, conducted by several such Chief Judges, had a hundred people taking the training from those judges.  None of those people, like me, were lawyers.

5) I worked under a Federal program in which my services were provided to member clients at no charge to them.  But, the going rate for people, like me, in my area to represent people before those judges was $5,000.  NOTE: In similar cases, if taken by a licensed attorney, and won, the attorney could commonly be awarded  legal fees in the range of $70,000 to $100,000.  ANd I could cite actual cases where such was awarded.

 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2015 by Gregory Matthews

[B/W Photodude]

Just in case anyone is thinking:

1) No, I am not a licensed attorney.

2) No, I have never attended law school.

You should be OK, if you stayed at a Holiday Inn last night! 

[GayatfootofCross]

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/07/politics/kim-davis-same-sex-marriage-kentucky-governor/index.html

(CNN)Kim Davis, the Kentucky clerk who's refused to issue same-sex marriage licenses, on Monday asked the Kentucky governor to immediately free her from jail, according to court documents obtained by CNN.

"We would like them to release her from jail and provide reasonable, sensible accommodation so she can do her job," one of her lawyers, Horatio Mihet, said in a statement. "That would be taking her name off of marriage licenses in Rowan County and allowing her deputies to issue the licenses."

Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear's office said Monday he won't respond, noting that the conflict was a "matter between her and the courts."

 

Kentucky clerk faces judge in marriage debate 04:01

On Sunday, her lawyers appealed the contempt of court motion that sent her to jail five days ago. Her lawyers said they'd file arguments to back up their appeal later Monday or Tuesday.

Davis was reading the Bible in jail and "exudes gentleness and peace," Mihet said.

"Her spirits remain high," he said. "She was brought to tears when she heard that so many people outside the jail and around the country are praying for her."

Supporters of Davis rallied Monday outside the home of U.S. District Court Judge David Bunning, who found Davis in contempt of court, CNN affiliate WCPO reported, and also outside the jail where she's being held, CNN affiliate WSAZ reported.

Davis had refused to give licenses to same-sex couples after June's Supreme Court decision on grounds that issuing the licenses would violate her Christian convictions against same-sex marriage.

Bunning ordered her to jail Thursday, ruling she was in contempt of court for refusing to issue the licenses and not allowing her deputies to distribute them for her. He said Davis would remain behind bars until she complies.

Five of her deputies agreed Thursday to issue marriage licenses in her absence, and the Rowan County Clerk's Office began doing so the following day.

 

How long will Davis stay in jail?

 

Mihet said on CNN that Davis was "willing to stay in this jail as long as it takes in order for her to win back her constitutional rights not just for her but for Americans of all faiths."

On Tuesday afternoon, a rally in support of Davis is scheduled to be held outside the Carter County Jail =m where she's being held. Mike Huckabee, a Republican candidate for president, said he plans to visit Davis in jail before the rally.

Because of Huckabee's visit, five schools in east Carter County will close on Tuesday to alleviate traffic, said Sgt. Travis Steele with the City of Grayson. The closings will affect more than a thousand students, Steele said.

 

One of Davis's lawyers, Mat Staver, founder and chariman of Liberty Counsel, said Beshear could issue an executive order to solve the problem.

Who is Kim Davis?

 

Attorney: Kim Davis 'has no intention' of resigning 01:22

The legislature could pass a law removing clerks' names from the licenses, but it won't be in session until January.

But Beshear said last week he won't call lawmakers for a special session to deal with the issue, adding that to do so would cost "hundreds of thousands of dollars of taxpayers' money."

The governor added that he has no power to remove Davis from office.

In court papers, attorneys for Davis argued that she is unable to comply with the court orders because issuing same-sex marriage licenses "irreparably and irreversibly violates her conscience

 

Same-sex marriage showdown in Kentucky 02:52

Kim Davis has been divorced three times

A federal prosecutor said it was time for Davis and her county to comply with the judge's ruling.

"Government officials are free to disagree with the law, but not disobey it," U.S. Attorney Kerry B. Harvey said in a statement. "The county clerk has presented her position through the federal court system, all of the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. It is time for the clerk and the county to follow the law."

 

Supporters say Davis should not have to resign

 

 

Counsel: Ky. clerk wants her name off marriage license 03:18

Davis' lawyers said they were surprised when the judge ordered Davis jailed. They expected some other legal action, such as a fine.

Daniel Canon, an attorney who was working with the ACLU on the case against Davis, said his clients had not asked for Davis to be jailed. But now that she is, he said, there should be "some assurance that Ms. Davis is not going to continue to impose her religious beliefs."

Ryan Anderson, a senior research fellow at the Heritage Foundation, a Washington-based conservative think tank, said the legislature should remove clerks' names from the licenses as Davis has asked.

"Hopefully she'll get out of jail because the state of Kentucky will realize that there are compromises we can reach that will protect both the rights of gays and lesbians to receive marriage licenses and the rights of someone like Kim Davis not to have her name on that marriage license," he said.

Staver said Davis does not plan to resign. Anderson acknowledged that Davis could resign, but he said she shouldn't have to.

"We have a rich history in the United States of accommodating conscientious objectors," Anderson said. "Kentucky accommodates conscientious objectors for other types of licensings. ... The question should be: If we can accommodate someone, why shouldn't we?"

 

..........................................................

There is a lot of things to pray for.

One would be a wonderful Holy Bible Study for her tender conscience.

To really show Jesus just hanging out and loving on people (so outrageous).

To see Jesus moving His mouth with utterings of Serving/Blessing your Enemies (so outrageous).

To show God would be ok For Kim to grant them Licensees According to the Law of the Land. Its How HE is. A facet of love most don't even get a glimpse of. It doesnt take away Gods holiness. It is His HOLINESS. to Give Respect and Dignity.

Kim Davis Would have a very different Pic of GOD when coming into work.

http://clubadventist.com/forums/topic/62910-a-god-of-concessions-divorce-etclistislong/

.

as of now...Kim Davis has a very different pic of GOD and cannot violate her conscience.

She believes it to be the right thing to do.

 

 

2 Corinthians 10:5Amplified Bible (AMP)

⁵ [Inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the obedience of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One),

 

 

Edited September 8, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[GayatfootofCross]

I know a day is coming when humans who resemble their Father would gladly serve the Least of These.

Not cause it  is commanded but only cause the heart is getting ready for the Law of Heaven.

Now that's a Testimony to have in your profession, Glorifying GOD!

Blessings!

Kim Davies is out of JAIL!

[GayatfootofCross]

hmmm...

[Tom Wetmore]

Yep, ain't nothing more important than our guns!   

[GayatfootofCross]

it bears repeating

............................................................

http://religiousliberty.tv/opinion-the-christian-kingdom-is-not-of-this-world-so-why-dominate-this-one.html

 

Opinion: The Spiritual Dimension to the County Clerk's Refusal to License Same-Sex Marriages

Posted by Jason Hines / September 9, 2015

Photo: iStockPhoto.com

By Jason Hines, JD, PhD

For those who study and comment on religious liberty in this country, Kim Davis seems like the perfect storm. Her “stand” for her conscience brings together so many elements of the things that people who are concerned about religious liberty debate about, regardless of whether you would call yourself a liberal or a conservative in this field.

Davis has made a decision according to her conscience, has had the willingness to not only follow it through, but also to go to jail for it. I am surprisingly both outraged by and sympathetic to her plight. I would love to talk about the legal ramifications of what she is doing (and I still might do that briefly), but tonight my mind turns primarily to the spiritual consequences of Davis’s actions.

A quick note about the politics and the law, however. I am somewhat sympathetic to Davis from a political perspective. It must be tough when the law changes on you in such a fundamental way (at least for her). When Davis was elected to this position, upholding the laws of the land did not violate her conscience in any way. Now doing her job is a violation of her conscience in this particular respect. The fact of the matter is, however, that she is by law and agent of the state and as such has no recourse but to either fulfill her duties, resign her post, or go to jail. All of those options are valid. (Oddly enough, Justice Scalia agrees with me about this.)

As a Christian, there are three things that bother me about the stance that Davis has taken.

First, I am not sure that Davis’s actions are the best way to fulfill the Gospel Commission, which is the charge given to every Christian. Before Jesus left Earth, He told His disciples, “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you…” Now I could be literalist and argue that Jesus did not command the disciples in anything regarding signing marriage licenses, but I don’t think I need to make that point to see the flaw in Davis’s modus operandi. If the command that the Messiah, the founder and leader of our faith, gave us was to make disciples, our decisions as Christians in our interactions with others should be guided by this principle.

In other words, when we interact with someone who is not of our faith, our eye should be towards how best to exemplify Christ and His character to this person.

When we interact with someone who is not of our faith, our eye should be towards how best to exemplify Christ and His character to this person.

 

I have always found instructive the words of Ellen G. White on this question. In the book Ministry of Healing, she writes, “Christ's method alone will give true success in reaching the people. The Saviour mingled with men as one who desired their good. He showed His sympathy for them, ministered to their needs, and won their confidence. Then He bade them, 'Follow Me.'[1]

Christ did not think of Himself in ministering to people, but thought of others first. Unfortunately, there is an inherent selfishness in the type of freedom of conscience practiced by Davis and those who believe as she does about the freedom of religion, that thinks of themselves and their rights first and foremost above the rights of others. Davis thought first and foremost of her conscience and freedom to exercise her beliefs over the consciences and freedoms of those who she was called to serve. Even so, I am somewhat sympathetic to Davis’s plight. I don’t know that I would want a ton of people telling me how to act on my beliefs either. However, I am convinced that we ruin Christ’s reputation (and by extension make it harder to assist in the creation of disciples) when we present Christ as a God who seeks to constrain, restrict, and hate instead of showing Him to be the God of love and freedom that He is.

Second, it seems to me that everyone on Team Davis has forgotten the golden rule. Even people who are not Christians are familiar with the golden rule.[2] In Matthew 7:12 it is stated as, “Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.” And while it is clear that Davis did not seek to treat those same-sex couples applying for licenses the way she would want to be treated if she were in a similar situation, I am more fascinated about the context of the golden rule. The statement in Matthew 7:12 starts with therefore because it is the concluding statement of a section of the text that begins with “Do not judge so that you will not be judged.” In that same speech Jesus also warns against the hypocrisy of removing a mote from someone else’s eye while a beam exists in your own. These two principles are things we all as Christians should think about before we condemn the LGBT community for wanting to be a part of the secular form of an institution that straight Christians have been destroying long before anyone else showed up and asked to join the club. If there is blame to be handed out for the downfall of marriage, it belongs to straight Christians who weakened marriage through sinfulness and infidelity. It is high time for the church in this sense to remove the beam from its own eye on the issue of marriage before we attempt to remove the mote from the LGBT community’s eye, if one even exists on this question.

 

The quandary that Davis found herself in is emblematic of the very reason why Christianity does not work best in conjunction with secular power.

Finally,the quandary that Davis found herself in is emblematic of the very reason why Christianity does not work best in conjunction with secular power. The Gospel of John records the story of Jesus on trial before Pilate prior to His crucifixion. When Pilate asks Jesus if He is King of the Jews, Jesus responds, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” Sometimes I think we as Christians have forgotten what we should be fighting for. We are fighting (if that is even the right word) to introduce humanity to a separated Savior who only desires a new relationship with the beings He created. The kingdom we ultimately serve is not in Rowan County, Kentucky or even the United States. We are members of a Kingdom that is not of this world. It makes me wonder why we spend so much time trying to dominate this one.

 

 

 

[1] Pgs. 143-44.

[2] As they should be – the principle can be found in some form or another in over 20 world religions.