Was There An Athiest In The Mine?

[Dr. Shane]

Miners' Notes Reveal Their Final Moments

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"Tell all I'll see them on the other side," read the note found with the body of 51-year-old mine foreman Martin Toler Jr. "It wasn't bad. I just went to sleep. I love you Jr."

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The miner's father, Randal McCloy Sr., told The Associated Press that he believes "in his heart" that his son's mostly 50-something colleagues decided during their last, desperate hours to share their dwindling supply of oxygen with his son because he was the youngest of the group and had two young children.

"Those men were like brothers. They took care of each other," he said.

There was no immediate confirmation from officials that the men shared their oxygen.

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I doubt there were many athiests in the mine.

[cricket]

What if there was an unsure Christian in the mine? One that was unsure as to what he/she believed? One that went to sleep with hope, but with no surety as to eternity?

What if this note were just a...?

Oh, never mind.

What a question! What difference does it make now?!

[Dr. Shane]

I mourn for those left behind. Those that died, died a painless death and had time to make things right with God as they understood Him. The note obviously shows they were thinking about such things.

[cricket]

Atheist or not, people do think about these things when dying.

[Nicodema]

There are atheists in the world who have good hearts and love and care about others. Most of them, matter of fact.

[LifeHiscost]

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Nicodema said:

There are atheists in the world who have good hearts and love and care about others.

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[:"red"] "...and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?" [/] 1 Cor 4:7 KJV

[:"red"] "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." [/] James 1:17 KJV

[Nicodema]

Yes, and ... there are still atheists in the world who have good hearts and who love and care about others. There are plenty of atheists in this world whose character would put that of many Christians to shame.

[Naomi]

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puddles said:

Yes, some may have had a "death bed" conversion but as Chrys said, what difference does it make now?

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I am sorry if this comes across harsh. However, IMHO, it's certainly not in good taste for us to speculate on their personal relationships with God. .... what difference does it make now?

And, Nico, I couldn't agree more about the kindness and love of fellow humans than I've seen in many athiests.

Naomi

[Dr. Shane]

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Yes, some may have had a "death bed" conversion but as Chrys said, what difference does it make now?

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There is no shame in "death-bed" conversions. Such was that of the theif on the cross. In the Army we had a saying, there are no athiests in foxholes.

The issue isn't how kind athiests are. There is no rule to that. I suspect there are good and rotten athiests. The issue is, given time before death to consider all, how many actually remain athiests? I suspect that if some of the miners were mediocre Christians, they repented of much in those final hours. What a blessing to be given time to do so. Those that die in a sudden accident or terror attack do not have such time.

[bevin]

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What a blessing to be given time to do so. Those that die in a sudden accident or terror attack do not have such time.

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Caution: Catholic Theology At Work

Salvation does not depend on dying just after confession.

A previously saved person, dying suddenly after having just committed some sin, is not going to loose their salvation just because of that last minute slip.

What kind of horrible God would play such silly games?

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

This is true, however staring at death has resulted in true conversion. Such is the example of the dying thief on the cross. Simular conversions have taken place on the high seas during storms. Not all are true conversions, but many are.

[Nicodema]

Here's the thing. I could see myself living as an infidel, coming up to the point of death, and then, because I'm facing death, wanting desperately to repent and be converted, confessing every sin I could think of, and getting stuck on the fact that it's only because I'm afraid of death and therefore it's not valid. And dying in abject terror nonetheless.

But that's just me. Everyone else, of course, would tell themselves it's OK, God forgives you.

[Dr. Shane]

I think that is a valid point. Since we would not have Christ there assuring us that we would be with Him in paradise, we just wouldn't know.

I suspect there have been many such "conversions" on the high sea during a storm or in a foxhole during a fire-fight only to survive and prove the conversion false.

However I suspect that the notes these families recieved, indicating a faith in God, are of great comfort to them. It will be interesting to hear the story from the survivor if he recovers enough to tell.

[John317]

I doubt it too, although I know that some atheists do die as atheists. Nietzsche, Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin did, and so did millions of communists during the Russian revolution and in other wars. If people are determined to, they are quite capable of living and even of facing death without God. Jim

[LifeHiscost]

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Naomi said:

And, Nico, I couldn't agree more about the kindness and love of fellow humans than I've seen in many athiests.

Naomi

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[:"red"] "Therefore we must give the more earnest heed to the things we have heard, lest we drift away. For if the word spoken through angels proved steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just reward, how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him, God also bearing witness both with signs and wonders, with various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit, according to His own will?"

For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren[/]

Hebrews 2:1-4,10,11,16-18

[:"red"] "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." [/] Galatians 3:29 KJV

It seems from these words, primarily directed to believers,

the essential element is to be Christ's. And if one is His the aforementioned Scriptures allow the sanctification necessary for eternal salvation which is worked out in the life by Divine prerogative as attested by the words above, [:"red"] "He who sanctifies" [/]

(sanctify: set apart to a sacred purpose) Webster's Ninth Collegiate Dictionary

Blessings!!

[cricket]

We should never be ashamed to call atheists our brethren.

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: " . . . given time before death to consider all, how many actually remain athiests?"

I deal with people who go to their death without a belief in God. There are plenty of such who accept death as a normal part of life, and are ready and willing to die.

[Robert]

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Nicodema said:

There are atheists in the world who have good hearts and love and care about others. Most of them, matter of fact.

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And they reject their need of Christ because of their "good hearts and love"....This is the apex of legalism and self-righteousness. Not giving you a hard time, Nico....Just stating a fact. The best that man can do is polluted with selfishness....We need Christ's selfless righteousness. Hence no one goes to the Father [who is in heaven] except through Jesus Christ.

[ChildofChrist]

I recall when my mother-in-law was in hospital a few years back (18) and she knew that she would not be leaving on her own two feet. Her kidneys shut down from years of alcohol abuse...and lungs were filling with fluid due to her tobacco use. Her eldest son came in with his Baptist preacher. My ex left the room.

During the funeral there was this story of her deathbed conversion...except, IMO, he was only comforting his church member and himself.

Mom was raised an Mormon and she rebelled in her mid-teens and resisted her aunt's 'charity attempts' for decades after that.

When I was with her, I never attempted to preach but to set a Christ-like example. She even witnessed the answer to prayer while on vacation one time and acknowledged it.

She had the opportunity to met Christ. I won't know the real results until He comes back.

[Gerr]

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QBJFN said:

What if there was an unsure Christian in the mine? One that was unsure as to what he/she believed? One that went to sleep with hope, but with no surety as to eternity?

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[:"blue"]Does uncertainty = lost? See the Publican in the Temple.

Does certainty = saved? See the Pharisee in the same Temple. [/]

Gerry

[Gerr]

What I don't understand is this, we have gadgets in airports to detect dangerous chemicals & biologicals, dynamite, radioactive materials, with all our technology, don't they have anything in the mines that detect the build-up of dangerous gases?

Gerry

[Gerr]

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bevin said:

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What a blessing to be given time to do so. Those that die in a sudden accident or terror attack do not have such time.

---

Caution: Catholic Theology At Work

Salvation does not depend on dying just after confession.

A previously saved person, dying suddenly after having just committed some sin, is not going to loose their salvation just because of that last minute slip.

What kind of horrible God would play such silly games?

/Bevin

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[:"blue"]And what if with that last deliberate sin the formerly saved person actually had decided to leave God forever and would rather enjoy the pleasures of sin now than wait for the pleasures of heaven in the by and by? [/]

Gerry

[Robert]

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ChildofChrist said:

She had the opportunity to met Christ. I won't know the real results until He comes back.

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Christ takes sinners where they are at....He accepts them with all their baggage and confusion. He looks at the heart, not performance. If the latter, none of us would make it...none of us. Write that down!

Rob

[Dr. Shane]

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don't they have anything in the mines that detect the build-up of dangerous gases?

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Yes they do, but when miners are trapped, there is no way to get the gases or miners out.

[cricket]

Not all atheists think like that Robert.

Think what you want, but it's not true.