Are you a Vegetarian?

[Lauralea]

It is not a salvation issue, but at times those who try a vegan diet and have other nutrient restrictions or concerns need some help from a nutritionist to make it work. Otherwise they may not feel their best, and I have had times when I needed to use technical information about nutrition to make it work for me, and would not have been able to do it in the best way without that knowledge.For example I had chemotherapy years ago and osteoporosis as a result but as able to reverse it with the right lifestyle and nutrients including supplements so my bones are now normal.

Edited August 29, 2015 by Lauralea

[B/W Photodude]

How did you reverse your osteoporosis?

[Deaconess]

Okay, I just can't find it in me to resist!!!        Osteoporosis is reversed by sisoropoetsO.     I deserve the rotten tomatoes for this one!   

 

[Lauralea]

I took calcium citrate malate, which is patented because it is absorbed much better, (Calcimate Plus at GNC) 3 tablets 2x a day. Also vitamin D3, got adequate protein, exercised, and not underweight.

[JoeMo]

For the environmentalists (didn't say wackos!) out there, it is said that cows are one of the number one causes of the gases that cause "global warming." I don't really believe in global warming, but cows are polluters. Cows produce significant amounts of methane gas via flatulance!

Cattle are second in methane emissions only to termites.  The methane emitted by termites in the metabolism of cellulose exceeds all other natural emissions.

[B/W Photodude]

Cattle are second in methane emissions only to termites.  The methane emitted by termites in the metabolism of cellulose exceeds all other natural emissions.

You learn somethin' new everyday!

[B/W Photodude]

Stop Torturing Chickens for McNuggets

https://www.change.org/p/worse-than-pink-slime-hidden-camera-exposes-nasty-secret-behind-mcdonald-s-chicken-mcnuggets

 

[Gail]

I am really enjoying this discussion!!

My father, aged 90, had severe back pain due to deterioration that no one is attempting to touch. He did have cortisone shots but now they give him a B-12 injection and it works so much better for him

[Naomi]

You usually do not receive enough Vit B if you are a vegetarian so the supplements are vital. Mother was not a vegetarian but had severe deterioration in her spine. As your father has found the B-12 Injections are awesome pain relievers. I tend to be always very low on V-D and find that taking the heavy prescription along with daily over the counter relieves much of my chronic pain.

[Lauralea]

I am really enjoying this discussion!!

My father, aged 90, had severe back pain due to deterioration that no one is attempting to touch. He did have cortisone shots but now they give him a B-12 injection and it works so much better for him

Thanks for sharing- I looked this up and was surprised to find out that there is a connection between low B12 and back pain. Another thing that helps back pain that is arthritis related is taking a glucosamine and MSM supplement. These increase the body's production of hyaluronic acid, which helps your joints move smoother, and have been shown to alleviate back pain. Interestingly, those with celiac disease may need more hyaluronic acid if they eat wheat even if they have no digestive symptoms because the body releases the acid into the gut. For vegans, they are available online at Swanson. Using the 2 together has really helped me, even though my pain started after a really bad car accident and was brought on by sitting for long periods on chairs with no back support. Now I no longer have a problem.

 

[Lauralea]

PS not encouraging those with celiac to eat a lot of wheat in the post above- just saying it may be affecting them another way as well.

[B/W Photodude]

Thanks for sharing- I looked this up and was surprised to find out that there is a connection between low B12 and back pain. Another thing that helps back pain that is arthritis related is taking a glucosamine and MSM supplement.

Glucosame and chondroitin has a lot of mixed results when you start going thru the different studies. Some people report benefits and others don't. Back pain is something I have been interested in as it is something I have endured thru a lot of years and ultimately contributed to me leaving bedside nursing. The three hundred pound stroke patients were just getting to hard to lift!

I have not found glucosamine et al, to be of any benefit.

But these things are helpful, IMHO:

1. Maintain your weight at the recommended level. Weight above your recommended levels will contribute to back pain, along with knee pain and disorders of the feet.

2. When your back hurts, continue to get exercise. Resist the urge to take to the bed. I have found that the more I took it easy, the more I hurt. Of course there will be times when pain is just off the chart hurting. So, this is a do your best recommendation.

3. One thing to keep in mind is back pain can hurt almost more than anything else and the doctors will be unable to find a specific fix for it. Time works well. Ice pack and warming pads can be your friends. Avoid anti-inflammatories as able. The ibuprofen class meds while helping with some discomfort, over time are not good for your renal function. Some studies have shown no real benefit from tylenol for back pain. Limit use of tylenol to max of 2600 mg/day. Tylenol bottles may allow higher, but the government is now recommending lower amounts due to potential liver toxicity.  I still wonder why the tylenol pill manufacturers increased the size of a tylenol pill. (I trust this one is unnecessary, sort of, but do not take tylenol with a hangover.) 

4. If your health plan allows or you can afford it, see a physical therapist. Have them outline a plan of core strengthening exercises. Also learn how to lift without using your back. Consider joining a gym and lift weights. If unsure how to lift safely, see a trainer for a couple of sessions. Weightlifting not only strengthens your muscles, but also increases bone density. This could help later with those old age collapsing vertebral bodies.

5. See a chiropractor. It used to be there was tension between medical doctors and chiropractors, but that is going away. A book of neuroscience recently put out (I knew the editor and some of the contributors!) made this statement, "Depend on your physical therapist and your chiropractor to maintain your back." Also consider deep tendon massages if things feel tight. My last chiropractor was absolutely amazing.

6. Avoid surgery if at all possible. Even if you really like your doctor, get a 2nd opinion before even considering surgery. Chances are, surgery may not help your pain levels anyway.

7. Avoid CT scans whenever possible. Back pain can wait for an MRI. Some oncologists today will state that up to 5% of all cancers today are due to radiation from radiological scans and procedures. Sometimes when the pain continues for awhile but your physician says there is no need for a scan, trust him/her on that. 

8.  A good diet is highly encouraged. Meat eating is thought to contribute to decreased bone density.

9. Don't just take my word for it! As always, discuss these things with your personal physician. Nothing is here is meant to interrupt your relationship with your physician. Also, do your own research.

The earlier in life you start, the better. If your spine is collapsing when you are in your 70s or 80s, it may be mostly too late. 

[phkrause]

Excellent points BW, especially about the lifting with our legs and not our backs. I see to many not bending those knees, and definitely weight lifting is of great worth, especially for woman!

[Naomi]

It is difficult to retrain yourself to lift with our legs and not our backs, but the rewards are well worth the effort put into the learning curve. 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

There is a lot of truth is what photodude said:

The following comes from "evidence based medicine."

 

Glucosame and chondroitin has a lot of mixed results when you start going thru the different studies. Some people report benefits and others don't.

[B/W Photodude]

It is difficult to retrain yourself to lift with our legs and not our backs, but the rewards are well worth the effort put into the learning curve. 

 

Having a severe back injury has it's way of making you retrain yourself to lift carefully. Unfortunately, been there / done that.  

[Lauralea]

Glucosame and chondroitin has a lot of mixed results when you start going thru the different studies. Some people report benefits and others don't. Back pain is something I have been interested in as it is something I have endured thru a lot of years and ultimately contributed to me leaving bedside nursing. The three hundred pound stroke patients were just getting to hard to lift!

I have not found glucosamine et al, to be of any benefit.

But these things are helpful, IMHO:

1. Maintain your weight at the recommended level. Weight above your recommended levels will contribute to back pain, along with knee pain and disorders of the feet....

 

 

I like your list of suggestions. BTW, the clinical trial I was refering to was Glucosamine and MSM together . At least one double blind placebo controlled study did show glucosamine and MSM were effective together for osteoarthritis pain, with an 80% reduction in pain after 3 months. So that combination, for that condition, evidently was effective for most people in that study.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17516722

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24274358

[ChildofChrist]

Not really!! I have a book, which is still in Massachusetts storage, and not sure of the name of the book. Written by Dr JM Hoffman, many years ago. If I figure out the name I will post it. Not even sure if its still in print.

Was it on Hunza? I have it or at least used to have, it is packed away somewhere. When they came to the Miami Temple in the early 80s I attended their programs. I've always been a vegetarian. But when listening to them talk, I realized that black pepper would cause gall stones. (When I lived with an aunt for a few months, the taste was obtained.) Well, the dear aunt had gallstones and surgery. And she was very liberal in the use of pepper. I switched to cayenne in modest amounts. I have been vegan, but currently that is not possible. I don't 'drink' milk by the glass full but will have a few ounces in food a couple times a week. While another friend introduced me to soy milk, given the choice, almond or coconut is preferred.

 

[ChildofChrist]

"Glucosame and chondroitin has a lot of mixed results when you start going thru the different studies. Some people report benefits and others don't....I have not found glucosamine et al, to be of any benefit."

 

I believe that God has distributed many of His healing blessings all around the world. AND that our old links to the old places have a bearing on what works for each person. What works for people in Africa or India etc, may not work for me/you.

I realized that over the years, people would rave about this or that and give testimony of the positive results they obtained. When I would try it, it just didn't happen. A short number of years ago, I tested an item that came from Africa and found that it was not for me. And whether happenstance or not, I developed another problem; a trade that I wish could be undone.

I tried glucosamine also but as I learned more about it, I stopped. 

[phkrause]

Was it on Hunza? I have it or at least used to have, it is packed away somewhere. When they came to the Miami Temple in the early 80s I attended their programs. I've always been a vegetarian. But when listening to them talk, I realized that black pepper would cause gall stones. (When I lived with an aunt for a few months, the taste was obtained.) Well, the dear aunt had gallstones and surgery. And she was very liberal in the use of pepper. I switched to cayenne in modest amounts. I have been vegan, but currently that is not possible. I don't 'drink' milk by the glass full but will have a few ounces in food a couple times a week. While another friend introduced me to soy milk, given the choice, almond or coconut is preferred.

 

No it was not on Hunza! It had a green cover. Actually thinking about it now, my Mom might have a copy of it at her house.

[LifeHiscost]

Excellent points BW, especially about the lifting with our legs and not our backs. I see to many not bending those knees, and definitely weight lifting is of great worth, especially for woman!

Some few years back  I started thrusting my behind back whenever bending over to pick anything up, no matter the weight. I worked in an industry where quite weighty items, as well as being too wide to allow bending the knees forward, along with the haste demanded for the task not permitting time to follow proper physical protocol, and I avoided almost all back pain of any consequence until maybe 10 years before retiring, at which time I read an article about the need to keep the body well hydrated for optimum performance.

Right about that time I had just started experiencing back pain that was severe enough, and chronic, to make me start drinking about 32-42 fluid ounces first thing each morning with the hope that it would affect the synovial fluid in my vertebrae for the better. In approximately 3-5 days the pain disappeared and only shows up on occasion when I forget the needed regular amount and usage.

If one is taking any significant amounts of water on a daily basis, I would suggest distilled water or filtered, that chlorine or fluoride not become more of a problem than an aching back.

God is Love!  Jesus saves!  

[phkrause]

Veggie bliss

When you’re planning a meal, vegetables are probably an afterthought. But they can actually be the star of the show. It all starts with expanding your understanding of the possibilities when it comes to cooking them.