being "Judgmental"

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

there's a difference between being judgmental vs pointing out the logical flaws in someone's actions and/or words...

 

[CoAspen]

Yes.....and........

[Jessie-Jess]

I agree to that, and yet you called my statement judgemental. Miss Pam, it seems pretty obvious that you're making this thread in response to my post, which you've already responded to in the thread, and this is the second time you've done something like this. Do you have a problem with me? Why don't you message me and talk to me about it instead? I try to defend a woman that I don't even know, who I believe is trying to follow her conscience. I show scripture. I point it out that people calling her a hypocrite seem like hypocrites to me, and people are judging her, and you turn it around to me and call me judgmental. I suppose that's fair. 

"You would better err, if you err at all, on the side of mercy and forbearance than that of intolerance." -Ellen White, TESTIMONIES FOR THE CHURCH, VOL. 4, PAGE 65.

"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." (Matthew 7: 2, NASB)

Whether or not the fact that I point out that someone else comes across as judgmental or hypocritical because they are accusing someone else of being so (in a way that seems harsh and hateful and unsympathetic when this person's life is being threatened and a Christian should at least pray for her and be understanding that she tries to do what God believes she wants her to do, what she believes is right, whether or not they agree that she is right, they should be at least understanding as Christians), doesn't change the fact that they are being judgmental and hypocritical also.

 

[bonnie]

there's a difference between being judgmental vs pointing out the logical flaws in someone's actions and/or words...

 

If you have a past that is less than it should be and most do is pointing out the flaws/sins of their past judgmental?If the past has been repented of and the life changed judgmental or just pointing out flaws?

If you past life has included unsavory or immoral behavior,was repented of are you forbidden to act on a belief concerning behavior you can no longer support?

Is someone that has had multiple sexual partners,married or otherwise somehow to be ridiculued when that behavior has changed?

If you feel strongly that actions you are ordered to take are you allowed to refuse to do so on religious grounds regardless of your past,or is that acting like a pharisee?

Edited September 4, 2015 by bonnie

[Jessie-Jess]

That woman, by the way, looks familiar, and so does the lady sitting next to her. I've canvassed (literature evangelism) in Kentucky before (isn't that where she is). It's possible that I have met her. I don't remember if she was kind to me or if she was cruel, like so many other "Christians" that I have met, who don't want to hear anything other than what they believe (many Christians were also kind and understanding and helpful, too and even encouraging). If she or the lady in her office hurt me, I don't remember nor hold it against her. If she received a book from me and if I prayed for her, I don't remember, but it's possible that she has been reading our  message and may be convicted by the Holy Spirit. You don't know her. Does anyone on here know her? I don't even know her, though it seems in my mind that I may have met her (I have met many people canvassing, so I do not know for sure). You don't know what God is doing on her heart. Nobody here does. I do know, however, that from what I read it seems like she is standing for what she believes is right, taking a stand on God's side. Whether she is right or wrong, no Christians should point fingers at her and call her hypocritical or whatever they call her. A Christian should at least be merciful, tolerant, understanding, and pray for her even if he or she cannot understand.

For all I know, she could become a powerful leader, believing what she is doing is right, taking a stand for Sunday worship in the last days in the time of trouble. She could actively oppose us, desiring to put us to death, following her conscience, but that is not for me to judge. She could be suffering alongside us in that future time, with us, assuming that we are faithful to God's cause. Only God knows. God knows her heart, and whether what she is doing is guided by Him or instigated by the devil. Who are we to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit (Mark 12:31)? 

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

 

If you past life has included unsavory or immoral behavior,was repented of are you forbidden to act on a belief concerning behavior you can no longer support?

Is someone that has had multiple sexual partners,married or otherwise somehow to be ridiculued when that behavior has changed?

If you feel strongly that actions you are ordered to take are you allowed to refuse to do so on religious grounds regardless of your past,or is that acting like a pharisee?

I wrote, "logical" flaws..  Perhaps that was overlooked.

[Jessie-Jess]

If you have a past of smoking, drinking, and doing drugs, and your kids want cigarettes, alcohol, and drugs, do you give to them? If so, why? And if not, why? 

Because of David's sin with Bathsheba, he did not correct his children as he should have. What was the result? Do you know? Have you read about David's offspring? About the war and bloodshed in his own household? 

Edited September 4, 2015 by Jessie-Jess

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I agree to that, and yet you called my statement judgemental [sic] ....

**snip**

 they are being judgmental and hypocritical also.

**off topic**  However, I was making an observation on a statement that was made ... if someone doesn't want folks to comment on something he or she has written, then perhaps it shouldn't be written.  That is as polite as I can state the matter.

This isn't supposed to be another thread on the Kentucky County Clerk and her refusal to follow the laws of the land.  It was to be a topic on the difference between being judgmental vs pointing out logical flaws in behavior and/or words...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

If you have a past of smoking, drinking, and doing drugs, and your kids want cigarettes, alcohol, and drugs, do you give to them? If so, why? And if not, why? 

Because of David's sin with Bathsheba, he did not correct his children as he should have. What was the result? Do you know? Have you read about David's offspring? About the war and bloodshed in his own household? 

Off topic.

[bonnie]

If you have a past that is less than it should be and most do is pointing out the flaws/sins of their past judgmental?If the past has been repented of and the life changed judgmental or just pointing out flaws?

I wrote, "logical" flaws..  Perhaps that was overlooked.

Is it logical or even christian to condemn as a pharisee as has been done and a hypocrite once the past life is put behind a person?Is every decision concerning your religious conviction to be viewed thru the lens of the past life and then have ridicule heap on you?

Is it being a self righteous hypocrite to simply say I believe this is wrong to be a part of? Is that person being judgmental?

This woman has not condemned,has not wished for harm to come to any gay,has not prayed for hell fire and brimstone down on anyone? Her biggest sin as far as I can see is having a past life that was far less than it should have been and many seem bent on making sure God does not forget that as they certainly have no intention of doing.

Many real christians don't seem to have any difficulty judging and ridiculing

[GayatfootofCross]

we as a Church have enshrined our sin of Judgment.

They call it discernment and/or Gate keeping.

It has even become part of the Great Commission.

(how did that happen)

.

 

These things rip wheat out of the Soil.

I think the only thing we can do as a Body of Christ is to realize what our Judging has done and realize How we fall short ourselves in all kinds of evil.

The Grace we let God put in us ..is Thee grace that will spill out to others and they will know we Have been with JESUS.

When with JESUS... we will see what hurt we have done with all our discernment and gate keeping and scriptures to back it up... and bask in how Right we are.

God bless you all.

 

Jesus walked around with non Condemnation in His Eyes!

how can we be any different?

 

we do different cause we think it is our job to reflect a very different JESUS (the devil's version even slandered in Heaven)

I believe as we get closer to JESUS coming we will see HIM as He Is! ..and reflect that !

before we see HIm as He really is

 

Edited September 4, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[bonnie]

Would someone please define judging?

[bonnie]

Over the years I have been asked many questions concerning my refusal to do something or be part of something. At times it has been necessary to explain as a SDA I do not believe it appropriate for me.

I have been asked to do things on the Sabbath I won't do. Am I being judgmental to explain why I go to church on Sabbath,Am I condemning and judging those that worship on Sun?

I have refused pork products. Judgmental?

I have refused alcohol.Judgmental?

A couple of times I have had to insist that people clean up their language or they will have to leave? Judgmental?

I have been asked my view on gay marriage. I explain? Judgmental

Never have I informed anyone they are on their way to hell. When asked if I felt God would actually punish homosexual behavior I point them to what the bible says.Judgmental?

I have done the same with all the above questions.

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

what you do or don't do on the Sabbath, what you eat or don't eat, is simply a personal preference... it hardly constitutes a judgment on someone else.  If someone uses vulgar language in your home or in a private place where you are the controlling party, of course you have a right to dictate what you will or will not tolerate.  Explanations (not exclamations) of one's preferences are not judgments on anyone else.   Pointing out facts and/or logical flaws in someone's behavior or words is not being judgmental.

Being judgmental is applying one's own personal standards against someone else's (racially, spiritually, economically, and/or politically), and attempting to portray one's own as the superior standard.

One can be judgmental about mores within a culture.  Those mores may not be acceptable in other cultures.  They may not be acceptable as a universal more, such as ISIS terrorism.  Very few will deny a personal judgmentalism against ISIS.

Other mores are less definable.  Religious mores are slippery, and while they are a part and parcel of most cultures, in the US and most other European nations, they aren't to be meshed with civil laws.  If they are, then something like Sharia law develops, where a few dictate what everyone should believe.

I don't think that's such a grand idea, though some might disagree.

[bonnie]

Being judgmental is applying one's own personal standards against someone else's (racially, spiritually, economically, and/or politically), and attempting to portray one's own as the superior standard.

If I refuse to take part in something,if I refuse as part of my employment does that show an an attempt to portray one's own as a superior standard?

I understand if I try to force my standard of behavior on another. If I simply refuse to comply with something I am not comfortable with am I attempting to show my standard superior?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

If I simply refuse to comply with something I am not comfortable with am I attempting to show my standard superior?

that would be subjective, and only you would know the honest answer... imho

[JoeMo]

Being judgmental is applying one's own personal standards against someone else's (racially, spiritually, economically, and/or politically), and attempting to portray one's own as the superior standard.

I'm glad I read on before I posted.  This is EXACTLY what being judgmental is.  Saying "Please don't talk like that here; there are children" (stating a preference") is much different than saying "How can you talk like that in front of children? You are disgusting!" (judgmental and condemning).

[bonnie]

 

According to one dictionary, the "nearest" word that describes "judgment" is "fault-finding."  (Word Web Dictionary). It is a very apt description, as many Bible texts would attest to as they admonish against judging others. But there is certainly a case for judging wherein one decides if something is right or wrong, as in John 7:24 where Jesus says to "judge righteous judgment." 

I think we are seeing this kind of thing happening in the political and legal systems of our respective countries today. History does repeat itself.

Thank you.That is about the best description I have here here so far. Pretty clear and concise

[Aliensanctuary]

Being judgmental is more like a personal attack, while logical fallacies are a little less personal. Being judgmental towards someone tends to wound their spirit and rouse them into fighting back in kind by turning on the flame throwers and blasting away. Discussing flaws in logic tends to depersonalize the argument by saying "this isn't " instead of "you aren't ".

I have experienced a few personal attacks in CA, mainly in one forum in particular. I finally reached the point of saying to myself, "So what, I know that I'm not a brain-washed scientist with important-sounding degrees. Go ahead and insult me and belittle me if that makes you feel better about yourselves". If someone wants to stomp me into the ground for my ideas, I can just ignore them or go somewhere else. Life's too short to spend it bickering with someone over nuances or trivia.

It's Self that rises up with bared, flesh-ripping fangs and claws to defend itself against personal attacks. Once Self is dead, personal attacks and insults whiz past their target, likely frustrating the shooter for the missed shot.

[Gregory Matthews]

 "The Bible teaches that one should keep the Sabbath holy."

 "People who do not keep the Sabbath holy will not be saved."

"If you do not keep the Sabbath holy, you will not be saved."

All three of the above statements are judgmental.  One is appropriate.  Two are not appropriate and are beyond what God has given us to personally decide.

  

[Outta Here]

Of your three statements, I see only the last as being judgmental. But, that's just how I see it....others may not agree.

[Tom Wetmore]

When our personal beliefs result in actions or words that effect other people negatively, there is a risk of being perceived as being judgmental.  It is imposing our personal mores, beliefs , etc., on another.  While not a flawless indicator of judgmentalism it may provide a cautionary in how we relate to and conduct ourselves around others.

 

I think Paul was speaking to this sort of thing when he wrote about dietary standards in the NT church where there was quite a disparity of standard and practice among the Jewish and Gentile believers. Read the whole chapter of Romans 14 to get the context for this summary statement that he makes in verse 22 - "You may believe there’s nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who don’t feel guilty for doing something they have decided is right." (NLT)

[Gregory Matthews]

We make a judgment when we decide what the Bible teaches and the claim that it may have on our life.

God expects us to make personal judgments.

We are not expected to make a judgment as to the salvation of another.  We do not know their standing before God.  We do not know the extent to which the Holly Spirit may have led them.