bonnie Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 Local Office Depot Defends Employees’ Refusal To Make Copies Of Anti-Abortion ‘Hate Material’ September 11, 2015 1:46 PM (Photo by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images) SCHAUMBURG, Ill. (CBSLA.com/AP) — A suburban Chicago woman is accusing Office Depot of religious discrimination, saying employees told her that making copies of an anti-abortion prayer violated company policy. Last month, Maria Goldstein, a Roman Catholic, asked employees at an Office Depot location in Schaumburg, Ill., to make 500 copies of “A Prayer for Planned Parenthood”, the Associated Press reported. The prayer was composed by the Rev. Frank Pavone, national director of the anti-abortion group Priest for Life. It calls on God to “Bring an end to the killing of children in the womb, and bring an end to the sale of their body parts. Bring conversion to all who do this, and enlightenment to all who advocate it.” The prayer also includes statistics about abortion in the U.S. and decries “the evil that has been exposed in Planned Parenthood and in the entire abortion industry.” Company spokeswoman Karen Denning tells the Chicago Tribune that Office Depot prohibits the copying of material that advocates “the persecution of certain groups of people,” among other criteria. She says the flier “contained material that advocates the persecution of people who support abortion rights.” But Goldstein says the handout (PDF) was part of a weeklong prayer and fasting campaign that aims to change opinions on abortion. Pavone issued a statement Thursday in defense of Goldstein. “I am proud of Maria Goldstein for standing up for her rights, and I call upon Office Depot to reconsider this decision by evaluating more carefully the words of the prayer and the intent of its author,” Pavone said. The group also called on its supporters cross the country “to bring the prayer to Office Depot outlets in their own communities to have it copied.” The St. Thomas More Society, a pro-life legal firm, sent a letter (PDF) Thursday to Office Depot asking for clarification on the company’s policy of refusal of service for customers. In the letter addressed to Office Depot CEO Roland Smith, attorney Thomas Olp states: “We suggest that you consider what your position would be if our client were black and your employees refused service because of her race. In that case it would not be hard to see how unreasonable that refusal of service would be.” In response, an attorney for Office Depot responded with a letter dated Sept. 11 (PDF) stating the company considers the handout and other similar content “hate material” and denies the decision was at all related to Goldstein’s religion. “Office Depot’s decision was not based in any part on the fact that the message here is couched in terms of Ms. Goldstein’s religious beliefs. In other words the language at issue would violate Office Depot’s policy regardless of the content surrounding it,” the letter states. Attorneys say store associates gave Goldstein “the option of printing the flyer at one of our in-store, self-service copy machines”, which she declined to do, according to the letter. If the company doesn’t respond in five days, Olp plans to file complaints with the Cook County Human Rights Commission and Illinois Department of Human Rights. “The best resolution would be that they would say `This was unjust. You were discriminated against because of your religion’ and then admit this was wrong,” Goldstein said. “I’d appreciate them printing the flier. The statistics are still valid and the prayer is still valid.” Office Depot is based in Boca Raton, Florida. Last May, the company announced plans to close about 400 stores across Southern California and other U.S. locations. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Office Depot Defends Employees’ Refusal To Make Copies Of Anti-Abortion ‘Hate Material’ September 11, 2015 1:46 PM (Photo by Justin Sullivan/Getty Images) SCHAUMBURG, Ill. (CBSLA.com/AP) — A suburban Chicago woman is accusing Office Depot of religious discrimination, saying employees told her that making copies of an anti-abortion prayer violated company policy. Last month, Maria Goldstein, a Roman Catholic, asked employees at an Office Depot location in Schaumburg, Ill., to make 500 copies of “A Prayer for Planned Parenthood”, the Associated Press reported. The prayer was composed by the Rev. Frank Pavone, national director of the anti-abortion group Priest for Life. It calls on God to “Bring an end to the killing of children in the womb, and bring an end to the sale of their body parts. Bring conversion to all who do this, and enlightenment to all who advocate it.” The prayer also includes statistics about abortion in the U.S. and decries “the evil that has been exposed in Planned Parenthood and in the entire abortion industry.” Company spokeswoman Karen Denning tells the Chicago Tribune that Office Depot prohibits the copying of material that advocates “the persecution of certain groups of people,” among other criteria. She says the flier “contained material that advocates the persecution of people who support abortion rights.” But Goldstein says the handout (PDF) was part of a weeklong prayer and fasting campaign that aims to change opinions on abortion. Pavone issued a statement Thursday in defense of Goldstein. “I am proud of Maria Goldstein for standing up for her rights, and I call upon Office Depot to reconsider this decision by evaluating more carefully the words of the prayer and the intent of its author,” Pavone said. The group also called on its supporters cross the country “to bring the prayer to Office Depot outlets in their own communities to have it copied.” The St. Thomas More Society, a pro-life legal firm, sent a letter (PDF) Thursday to Office Depot asking for clarification on the company’s policy of refusal of service for customers. In the letter addressed to Office Depot CEO Roland Smith, attorney Thomas Olp states: “We suggest that you consider what your position would be if our client were black and your employees refused service because of her race. In that case it would not be hard to see how unreasonable that refusal of service would be.” In response, an attorney for Office Depot responded with a letter dated Sept. 11 (PDF) stating the company considers the handout and other similar content “hate material” and denies the decision was at all related to Goldstein’s religion. “Office Depot’s decision was not based in any part on the fact that the message here is couched in terms of Ms. Goldstein’s religious beliefs. In other words the language at issue would violate Office Depot’s policy regardless of the content surrounding it,” the letter states. Attorneys say store associates gave Goldstein “the option of printing the flyer at one of our in-store, self-service copy machines”, which she declined to do, according to the letter. If the company doesn’t respond in five days, Olp plans to file complaints with the Cook County Human Rights Commission and Illinois Department of Human Rights. “The best resolution would be that they would say `This was unjust. You were discriminated against because of your religion’ and then admit this was wrong,” Goldstein said. “I’d appreciate them printing the flier. The statistics are still valid and the prayer is still valid.” Office Depot is based in Boca Raton, Florida. Last May, the company announced plans to close about 400 stores across Southern California and other U.S. locations.
Outta Here Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 I can see some of the wording in that flier to be considered hate speech: committed, evil, corruption, grisly... I, personally, think their audience would be better reached with a mere statement of facts and omission of the overall tone of judgment. rudywoofs (Pam) 1 Quote
bonnie Posted September 12, 2015 Author Posted September 12, 2015 I can see some of the wording in that flier to be considered hate speech: committed, evil, corruption, grisly... I, personally, think their audience would be better reached with a mere statement of facts and omission of the overall tone of judgment. There isn't any call to violence . There isn't any call whatsoever to persecute anyone.Committed does not mean hate. I am sure those that support abortion on demand have a more sanitized word than grisly they would like to see used. Grisly is appropriate word to use for late term abortions. Besides office depot was not being called to endorse something. This group wasn't advocating anything illegal whatsoever. Prayer for the Conversion of Planned Parenthood Join in prayer and fasting Aug. 22-29 Lord for whom all things are possible, We are confronted once again today with the evil of the abortion industry and the corruption found in the world's largest abortion business, Planned Parenthood. Lord, we pray for all who plan to be parents, and we ask your mercy on those who teach others to reject parenthood. In light of your Word, Lord, we affirm today that children are a blessing from you, and that the origin of all parenthood is likewise in You, the God of life and love. Therefore, Oh God, we stand against the evil that has been exposed in Planned Parenthood and in the entire abortion industry. We stand today for the triumph of truth over falsehood, of light over darkness, and of life over death. Bring an end to the killing of children in the womb, and bring an end to the sale of their body parts. Bring conversion to all who do this, and enlightenment to all who advocate it. Close the doors of the death camps in our midst, and open the doors of your mercy and healing! Close the grisly trade in baby body parts. And open the abundant gifts of your salvation and life! Hasten the day when our land will no longer be stained with innocent blood, and when the bodies of all your children will be raised from the dead and set free forever. We pray in the name of Jesus the Lord. Amen! Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted September 12, 2015 Author Posted September 12, 2015 As I have mentioned before I make products for the physically and mentally handicapped,many young adults. While I am perfectly willing to make and provide products for anyone that has a true need for them I do not do so for those I do involved in what I consider deviant behavior. I have had to get very direct with some that keep pushing. I have been accused of hate speech and being judgmental. So be it. I simply will not be a part of it. This is one of the milder requests which I consider a form of child abuse. This involves a 17 year old boy. Bonnie I have seen some cute little baby girl outfits. I want to order some baby girl outfits for my teenage son to wear with his diapers. I have let his hair grow long enough to be able to put it in ponytails with ribbons. I have talked with his grandmothers and we all agree that he would look very cute in short baby girl dresses with matching diaper cover panties that could be seen under his baby girl dresses. Can you make up some baby girl outfits for him . Others are far more direct in their choice of language and requests . I try to avoid conflict by simply saying I do not provide that service and here are those that do. To the petty and vindictive that is not acceptable. At times I have been as direct telling them I personally feel it is wrong and do not want any part of it.Then the that is hate,you are judging,you don't have any right to. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Outta Here Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 Dear Bonnie, my response is off topic, but I want to say thank you for refusing their request and for trying to help that young man avoid such indignities. Happy Sabbath. Quote
bonnie Posted September 12, 2015 Author Posted September 12, 2015 I appreciate your response. However the issue is what is hate speech? The woman that sent this particular request did back off at my response,not everyone does. I typically try to keep my response as No I do not provide that. For a lot of those requesting bizarre and what I consider products for their deviant sick fantasies it is like waving a red flag. The fact that I provide custom work leads them to believe it should include them. When does the definition of hate speech change and does it change with who happens to be involved? According to the article Office Depot would likely accuse me of hate speech and refuse. There have been those that have pushed and when received an answer they did not want to hear leveled the same accusations as Office Depot. When pushed to explain why I would custom make a specific article for a young teenage girl and not for a gay man,the answer is considered hate speech. That is really their problem. They can and do cause a sizable headache for many of us just because they are told no and it does not sit well with them. Who has the right to "judge them" etc. To go after those that dare to refuse them serves a purpose that dealing with those that gladly accept such orders. They already have them in their deviant corner Hate speech has really come to mean that certain groups are hearing something they don't like. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Outta Here Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 From Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry "Hate Speech" is a term often used by liberals in their attacks on Christians. Anything that does not agree with the liberal viewpoint is sometimes labeled as hate speech and ridiculed. But, what really is hate speech? dictionary.com, "speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation." usaeducationguides.com, "A term for speech intended to degrade, intimidate, or incite violence or prejudicial action against someone based on race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. The term covers written as well as oral communication." definitions.uslegal.com, "Hate speech is a communication that carries no meaning other than the expression of hatred for some group, especially in circumstances in which the communication is likely to provoke violence. It is an incitement to hatred primarily against a group of persons defined in terms of race, ethnicity, national origin, gender, religion, sexual orientation, and the like. Hate speech can be any form of expression regarded as offensive to racial, ethnic and religious groups and other discrete minorities or to women." To me, some of the language in that prayer is language that is intended to degrade and intimidate people who are not like-minded regarding abortion (generally a religious mind-set). CoAspen 1 Quote
Aliensanctuary Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 Just another black eye for religion when "prayer" is used as a weapon to attack others for their beliefs or actions. Jesus told us to go into our closets and pray in secret. The lady should have taken the option offered and copied the flyer herself, unless she really wanted to make a "scene". Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 14, 2015 Moderators Posted September 14, 2015 I have read the flyer that Office depot was asked to print. I have also read the Planned Parenthood Annual Report and will make a couple of comments: 1) I do not believe that the flyer consists of "hate speech." 2) I do believe that it contains statements that are half-truths. NOTE: I do not plan to get into a discussion of this point. 3) The fundamental question raised is what does the statute and case law say as to the rights of Office Depot to refuse to print it? 4) I am leaning to the positon that Office depot did not violate any law in refusing to print the flyer. NOTE: I am aware that Office Depot is rethinking its position on this. Quote Gregory
bonnie Posted September 14, 2015 Author Posted September 14, 2015 Just another black eye for religion when "prayer" is used as a weapon to attack others for their beliefs or actions. Jesus told us to go into our closets and pray in secret. The lady should have taken the option offered and copied the flyer herself, unless she really wanted to make a "scene". That would have been the best option but where is the hate speech used as a reason for not printing the flyer? It is frequently stated that what a business or person personally believes to be wrong is not to be considered,only the civil law is relevant. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Outta Here Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) If I said, "Bonnie, people who think like you do and act like you do are evil," would you find my statement to be hateful? Would you find it hateful if I said you needed enlightenment? Edited September 14, 2015 by Aubrey Quote
bonnie Posted September 14, 2015 Author Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) If I said, "Bonnie, people who think like you do and act like you do are evil," would you find my statement to be hateful? lol, Where have you been? Not quite that direct but Actually I would believe that is your opinion. One you are entitled to hold. Many people believe abortion to be evil. Others think little of it. Just because something is said that a group or others don't want to hear does not make someone evil. Would I send something like that out? Of course not. That is a far cry from labeling something I wouldn't do Hate speech Edited September 14, 2015 by bonnie Outta Here 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Outta Here Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) Okay. Well, I don't know where I've been, but I would find it hateful if someone said that to me, or about others like me. Maybe I'm too sensitive. So, that's why I see the flyer as hate speech. (I admit it...I am rather sensitive about life in general.) Also, I hope you realize I don't think you're evil....it was just a question. Edited September 14, 2015 by Aubrey Quote
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