Robert Posted September 12, 2015 Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) "We see through a glass, darkly ; but then face to face" See what? Well, the subject of 1 Corinthians 13 is "agape". Why darkly? Because there are things in the Bible that darken our view of God. Many things I can reconcile, but then when it comes to the OT it gets a bit harder. Does anyone else understand my concern? Edited September 12, 2015 by Robert Quote
LifeHiscost Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 "We see through a glass, darkly ; but then face to face" See what? Well, the subject of 1 Corinthians 13 is "agape". Why darkly? Because there are things in the Bible that darken our view of God. Many things I can reconcile, but then when it comes to the OT it gets a bit harder. Does anyone else understand my concern? So what would be the problem with taking it up with the One Who has all the answers? 25 Cause me to tread in Thy truth, and teach me, For Thou art the God of my salvation, Near Thee I have waited all the day. Psalms 25 If you still feel someone other than yourself might be able to show something of Agape love in the O.T. you might investigate the book "The Great Controversy", particularly referencing the last eight chapters which focus in on the days we're living in, although the whole book gives the optimum opportunity to gain someone else's wisdom. God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
JoeMo Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 I do understand your concern, Robert. One of the churches I support is spending over a year studying the first 5 books of the Bible - the Law and the consequences of breaking it. We have found that in every case, God provides a way of escape from the consequences of sin; but the people never seem to choose that route; and therefore suffer the consequences. Does that sound like a model for the end times? God offers everything He has to give us a "Way" around the consequences of sin - even to the point of giving His only begotten Son to pay those consequences for all humanity. But many simply reject the offer of escape; and therefore pay the consequences. As it was in the beginning, so it shall be at the end. Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) "We see through a glass, darkly ; but then face to face" See what? Well, the subject of 1 Corinthians 13 is "agape". Why darkly? Because there are things in the Bible that darken our view of God. Many things I can reconcile, but then when it comes to the OT it gets a bit harder. Does anyone else understand my concern? I have the same issue of a schizoid tyrannical childish God I see darkly. When I was younger these things were put on the back burner but affected my Image of HIM in prayer and discussions. When I caused a scandal at church and dropped out ..it was inconceivable that God faced me ...not turned away from me. Then I came across sermons and books telling me a different GOD. I didn't grow up with this God for decades. It is magnified on the CROSS. Loving and serving and even washing the feet of His Enemy! God Facing you! No matter what u did or do or will do. God is right there. In love with you. I believe the Prophets of old and new, filter God thru their limited understanding and tiny box of culture and society. And subsequently tell a fragmented Picture in pieces and perceptions. But when JESUS came we saw THE FULL Revelation Of His Character Saying 'I am Meek and Lowly and I love my enemies and bless them as the sun and the rain falls on all. The Mightiest Omni Omni says He is meek and lowly with Non Condemnation in His All seeing eyes tells me I am missing too much in the old stories. I am missing HIM in my filter. I'm using my own society and church driven glasses when looking at HIM. My sinfulness and arrogance and ignorance and hiding lends me to see GOD as a God of War. Not Reconciliation or Peace. Did it give me the answers to genocide and plagues and misogyny and homophobia and Lightning boltz? a tiny bit. But not enough to combat every huge question. But a succulent enough to keep digging into THE WORD and finding the Most Beautiful Being in all the Universes! Who is worthy. #If you see Me you see the Father. John 14:9 Edited September 13, 2015 by GayatfootofCross pnattmbtc 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Robert Posted September 13, 2015 Author Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) If you see Me you see the Father. John 14:9 Right, and who did Jesus kill? Who did Jesus stone? I can't find any place in the NT where Christ does harm to anyone. But, we are told, that Christ is the God of the OT. For example, look at Luke 9:51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?" 55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them." It seems that the disciples were a bit confused themselves of the nature of God. 2 Kings 1:9 The captain went up to Elijah, who was sitting on the top of a hill, and said to him, "Man of God, the king says, 'Come down!' " 10 Elijah answered the captain, "If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!" Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men. Why was it okay to destroy men's lives in the OT, but in the NT preserve them? Isn't Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? Edited September 13, 2015 by Robert Quote
Robert Posted September 13, 2015 Author Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Lev 20:13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. The method of execution was by stoning. That's a bit barbaric to me. Why not a sword? Quick and painless. Now the next one is extra barbaric: 14 " 'If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you. 15 " 'If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal (BTW, what did the animal do?). Look, I understand the Jews chose to be under law and under law you sin you die. But the above is just plain torture. None of the above fits the image of Jesus in the NT. Look, I am not presenting these contradictions to cause believers to lose their faith. I'm trying to understand these contradictions.... Edited September 13, 2015 by Robert Quote
Robert Posted September 13, 2015 Author Posted September 13, 2015 Now my favorite: John 8:3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" Who gave the law to Moses - was it not Christ? What did the law state? Lev 20:10 " 'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. So in the OT a woman caught in adultery got stoned (and I don't mean she smoked pot). She died a horrific death. Now, back to our story in John chapter 8: 7 When they (the teachers of the law and Pharisees) kept on questioning him (Jesus), he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." a] Did Jesus say, "Go now and leave your life of adultery or I'll stone you!"? No! b] Did the woman ask for pardon? No! Jesus gave it to her freely. c] Why, in the OT, could sinners stone sinners? Isn't that a bit self-righteous? Quote
LifeHiscost Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 Lev 20:13 " 'If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads. The method of execution was by stoning. That's a bit barbaric to me. Why not a sword? Quick and painless. Now the next one is extra barbaric: 14 " 'If a man marries both a woman and her mother, it is wicked. Both he and they must be burned in the fire, so that no wickedness will be among you. 15 " 'If a man has sexual relations with an animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal (BTW, what did the animal do?). Look, I understand the Jews chose to be under law and under law you sin you die. But the above is just plain torture. None of the above fits the image of Jesus in the NT. Look, I am not presenting these contradictions to cause believers to lose their faith. I'm trying to understand these contradictions.... Jesus in the N.T. 1The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. 3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.....Revelation 1 … 12Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. 13And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!'" "Yes," says the Spirit, "so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."....Revelation 14 …23Just then there was a man in their synagogue with an unclean spirit; and he cried out, 24saying, "What business do we have with each other, Jesus of Nazareth? Have You come to destroy us? I know who You are-- the Holy One of God!" 25And Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Be quiet, and come out of him!"…Mark 1 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.... 18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.....John 1 8Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10“Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11“Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. .....John 14 33Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons. 42Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes? 43Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. Matthew 21 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!!
JoeMo Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 I think something changed at the cross and resurrection. The Father sacrificed Jesus on the cross - and Jesus agreed to be sacrificed - as an offering for the sins of all mankind. Since that time, we are no longer under Law, but under grace. We have been reconciled to God. God is not going to punish believers for sins that He already punished Jesus for. That being said, what about those who refuse reconciliation? There will come a time soon when the barbarism of the Old Testament will be the law of the land again. At that time, Jesus will come (as a Warrior King this time) and set His people free once again. The destruction of the wicked and the rock they live on will make the God of the Old Testament look gentle and merciful. Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) Right, and who did Jesus kill? Who did Jesus stone? I can't find any place in the NT where Christ does harm to anyone. But, we are told, that Christ is the God of the OT. For example, look at Luke 9:51 Now it came to pass, when the time had come for Him to be received up, that He steadfastly set His face to go to Jerusalem, 52 and sent messengers before His face. And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him. 53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?" 55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them." It seems that the disciples were a bit confused themselves of the nature of God. 2 Kings 1:9 The captain went up to Elijah, who was sitting on the top of a hill, and said to him, "Man of God, the king says, 'Come down!' " 10 Elijah answered the captain, "If I am a man of God, may fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty men!" Then fire fell from heaven and consumed the captain and his men. Why was it okay to destroy men's lives in the OT, but in the NT preserve them? Isn't Jesus the same yesterday, today and tomorrow? I agree with the quandary that many a saint have here with your three last posts and Thread (ive been writing this for 6 hours in between many phone calls and i think people can guess I can't type and can't write) The Ultra violent culture of the Canaanite World is "if someone kills your daughter ..you strike back and kill the whole family..if they come back and wipe out your family and friends THEN you come back and wipeout their village" And God comes and says EYE for EYE ..not Eye for Head. Leading them closer to the IDEAL as a society. God working within the brute, sword carrying (now we have peeps in parts of the U.S carrying arms in full view) Society. THE IDEAL is to Reflect JESUS in LOVING ON BLESSINGS FOR SERVING AND DYING FOR YOUR ENEMIES ..uhh not eye for an eye...baby steps.. Abraham fought war, David very blood thirsty ( one hundred foreskins for a Bride's father). Violent men everywhere ruling . Jacob sons destroy a city over sister raped (Cannanite influence). It seems like when Moses conveyed God's rules for a Theocracy ..the people had no problem with throwin rocks with jeers and scorn (look at the Stoning of Stephen centuries later) at the offending party. It was right up their ally and rich history. I can't conceive of this but we don't have to look far to see that in the modern with videotaping beheadings in that very region* . Like its some badge of honor. ............................................... A God of concessions is at work among us! I put this Thread up below. http://clubadventist.com/forums/topic/62910-a-god-of-concessions-divorce-etclistislong/ Moses Laws of Society: Not the IDEAL! GOD is trying to come down among us by being us in shadows and forms.Identifying with the Culture to lead us higher. God strikes Hard and people obey with mouths and rebel. God strikes Light as a feather and we are grateful and rebel.God gives miracles..we testify and take advantage of it and rebel. God shows fireworks and Visions and we are awed and rebel. God gives handiwork of Creation and we admire and rebel. No matter what GOD did ...we rebel. We see JESUS GOD in the OT saying over and over again 'I desire Mercy not scapegoating/sacrifice". THE IDEAL! .. THE IDEAL is always presented in between the scriptures of OK have it your way but I will still work with a human king loving Israel (dethroning GOD)or a Punitive Church or a foolish individual. God STILL works within your society/church/person/brain/family/work. Together and seperate Here Now ..A very imperfect illustration: Forgive the Morbidity Christian Missionaries come upon a cannibalistic tribe that practices female circumcision and child sacrifices and the Missionaries have to gain trust and watch the plain evil for a ridiculous amount of time before any safety and love and trust is established to move into teaching or any semblance of Authority to somehow intervene in these practices . So they pick one to start teaching about cannibalism .. Like uhh ... Don't eat me and its not good to eat others but the tribe still wants flesh ( divorce, violence,power, habits etc. NOW . ) so ..OK The MISSIONARIES say " you can eat their flesh after they die of accidental causes or bad health. So some figure 'Hey the Christian Missionaries told us not to eat each other unless dead already ..and everything else is ok and that is The Missionaries will for us forever!" and the prophets of old tribe write it all down while looking at the glass darkly and very nearsighted. We are that tribe. The more answers anyone can give raises even more questions that all may be solved till We See HIM as HE is! ... or Our Judgement of GOD at the Second Resurrection. ....................... * this nowhere reflects 'us' good american is better than 'them' violent middle eastern Thinking on my behalf We in America (me) can still use violence of words and accusations on the internet -same spirit behind it and besides ..My Dad's Grandfather came to America from the Middle East in the early 1900's I told this story before here; Someone at my work, seeing my Last Name, remarked after 911..'You're not that,You look American!' I replied as he turned on his heel " I am American." I found this book awhile back and want to read it http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Violence-Scripture-Bible-Christian/dp/0281074208/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1442140388&sr=1-2&keywords=how+to+read+the+bible+and+still+be+a+christian Edited September 13, 2015 by GayatfootofCross Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
Robert Posted September 13, 2015 Author Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) See what you think of the following video: Edited September 13, 2015 by Robert Quote
Robert Posted September 13, 2015 Author Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) He has "hell" wrong, but other than that this video helps me a bit.... And what happens after death he has wrong too, but I like his message. Okay, the children died, but they will ultimately be in heaven. Edited September 13, 2015 by Robert Quote
GayatfootofCross Posted September 13, 2015 Posted September 13, 2015 (edited) He has "hell" wrong, but other than that this video helps me a bit.... And what happens after death he has wrong too, but I like his message. Okay, the children died, but they will ultimately be in heaven. i will be listening to this when i can give it full attention in the first few minutes i can tell he speaks my language and i will be all over it! thanku very much for this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! as my sis says "he is of our TRIBE' Edited September 13, 2015 by GayatfootofCross Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
GayatfootofCross Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 He has "hell" wrong, but other than that this video helps me a bit.... And what happens after death he has wrong too, but I like his message. Okay, the children died, but they will ultimately be in heaven. Thank you Robert! GBU! This guy is dynamite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Inside of 1 moment when i turned it on when i was busy I knew I knew He Found the Real Pic of GOD! OMWG : Oh My Wonderful God He will go viral in my FB world. Many points he made I heard on the GOOD NEWS TOUR on the internet. a few years ago And was instantly transfixed at a Pic of God I never heard of. It literally lightened the LOAD. Robert 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet
LifeHiscost Posted September 14, 2015 Posted September 14, 2015 See what you think of the following video: I didn't have time to get into it past seven minutes but am happy to admit the gentleman knows what Love in a world gone largely to the god of this world, is sometimes forced to do, rightly in the name of justifiable protection for God's own children..\ 33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country: 34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it. 35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another. 36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise. 37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. 38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. 39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him. 40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen? 41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.....Matthew 21 God is Love! Jesus saves! GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Lift Jesus up!!
pnattmbtc Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) I agree with the quandary that many a saint have here with your three last posts and Thread (ive been writing this for 6 hours in between many phone calls and i think people can guess I can't type and can't write) The Ultra violent culture of the Canaanite World is "if someone kills your daughter ..you strike back and kill the whole family..if they come back and wipe out your family and friends THEN you come back and wipeout their village" And God comes and says EYE for EYE ..not Eye for Head. Leading them closer to the IDEAL as a society. God working within the brute, sword carrying (now we have peeps in parts of the U.S carrying arms in full view) Society. THE IDEAL is to Reflect JESUS in LOVING ON BLESSINGS FOR SERVING AND DYING FOR YOUR ENEMIES ..uhh not eye for an eye...baby steps.. Abraham fought war, David very blood thirsty ( one hundred foreskins for a Bride's father). Violent men everywhere ruling . Jacob sons destroy a city over sister raped (Cannanite influence). It seems like when Moses conveyed God's rules for a Theocracy ..the people had no problem with throwin rocks with jeers and scorn (look at the Stoning of Stephen centuries later) at the offending party. It was right up their ally and rich history. I can't conceive of this but we don't have to look far to see that in the modern with videotaping beheadings in that very region* . Like its some badge of honor. ............................................... A God of concessions is at work among us! I put this Thread up below. http://clubadventist.com/forums/topic/62910-a-god-of-concessions-divorce-etclistislong/ Moses Laws of Society: Not the IDEAL! GOD is trying to come down among us by being us in shadows and forms.Identifying with the Culture to lead us higher. God strikes Hard and people obey with mouths and rebel. God strikes Light as a feather and we are grateful and rebel.God gives miracles..we testify and take advantage of it and rebel. God shows fireworks and Visions and we are awed and rebel. God gives handiwork of Creation and we admire and rebel. No matter what GOD did ...we rebel. We see JESUS GOD in the OT saying over and over again 'I desire Mercy not scapegoating/sacrifice". THE IDEAL! .. THE IDEAL is always presented in between the scriptures of OK have it your way but I will still work with a human king loving Israel (dethroning GOD)or a Punitive Church or a foolish individual. God STILL works within your society/church/person/brain/family/work. Together and seperate Here Now ..A very imperfect illustration: Forgive the Morbidity Christian Missionaries come upon a cannibalistic tribe that practices female circumcision and child sacrifices and the Missionaries have to gain trust and watch the plain evil for a ridiculous amount of time before any safety and love and trust is established to move into teaching or any semblance of Authority to somehow intervene in these practices . So they pick one to start teaching about cannibalism .. Like uhh ... Don't eat me and its not good to eat others but the tribe still wants flesh ( divorce, violence,power, habits etc. NOW . ) so ..OK The MISSIONARIES say " you can eat their flesh after they die of accidental causes or bad health. So some figure 'Hey the Christian Missionaries told us not to eat each other unless dead already ..and everything else is ok and that is The Missionaries will for us forever!" and the prophets of old tribe write it all down while looking at the glass darkly and very nearsighted. We are that tribe. The more answers anyone can give raises even more questions that all may be solved till We See HIM as HE is! ... or Our Judgement of GOD at the Second Resurrection. ....................... * this nowhere reflects 'us' good american is better than 'them' violent middle eastern Thinking on my behalf We in America (me) can still use violence of words and accusations on the internet -same spirit behind it and besides ..My Dad's Grandfather came to America from the Middle East in the early 1900's I told this story before here; Someone at my work, seeing my Last Name, remarked after 911..'You're not that,You look American!' I replied as he turned on his heel " I am American." I found this book awhile back and want to read it http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Violence-Scripture-Bible-Christian/dp/0281074208/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1442140388&sr=1-2&keywords=how+to+read+the+bible+and+still+be+a+christian I have this one: http://www.amazon.com/Disarming-Scripture-Cherry-Picking-Violence-Loving-Conservatives/dp/0692307265/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442608038&sr=8-1&keywords=derek+flood. It's pretty interesting; worth reading. Great is his other book, "Healing the Gospel". Edited September 18, 2015 by pnattmbtc GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
pnattmbtc Posted September 18, 2015 Posted September 18, 2015 Now my favorite: John 8:3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law, Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" Who gave the law to Moses - was it not Christ? What did the law state? So in the OT a woman caught in adultery got stoned (and I don't mean she smoked pot). She died a horrific death. Now, back to our story in John chapter 8: 7 When they (the teachers of the law and Pharisees) kept on questioning him (Jesus), he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 11 "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin." a] Did Jesus say, "Go now and leave your life of adultery or I'll stone you!"? No! b] Did the woman ask for pardon? No! Jesus gave it to her freely. c] Why, in the OT, could sinners stone sinners? Isn't that a bit self-righteous? This is a great topic to discuss. A quick simplistic answer is that the Bible records how people perceived things, or, perhaps better stated, the things which were written reflect how the writers perceived things, which may not always be how Jesus perceived them. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God.
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