Social Darwinism

[Bravus]

'Social Darwinism' is a misunderstanding of Darwin, or a metaphor that is assumed to reflect back on the familiar concept used in the metaphor, but perhaps we can leave that on the side of our plate for the moment...

Social Darwinism is usually understood to mean a 'dog eat dog' view of the world, where everyone is on his or her own.

I find it interesting that, while so many Christians hate evolution as an explanation of biology, and also try to place the crimes of the Nazis at the foot of Darwin, Social Darwinism seems to be the economic philosophy they support, with their disdain for safety nets and expectation that the poor, vulnerable and disabled fend for themselves. Those on the left, while more often atheist (although there are many Christians on the left too), tend to value social support, safety nets and a hand up for those who are struggling. And it seems to me that the latter is what the Bible also advocates.

 

[Gail]

Jesus was revolutionary... But the OT did make provision for the poor that people would not consider today, such as the jubilee concept (returning all possessions forfeited by debt), refusing to charge interest on loans and giving a person in need whatever s/he asks for without question. Immigrants were to be well-treated, too, because the people of Israel were once foreigners and I'll-treated. They were not to forget what it feels like.

The theory is there... It is the people that don't want to abide by the precepts.

[Aliensanctuary]

Social Darwinism seems to be the economic philosophy they support, with their disdain for safety nets and expectation that the poor, vulnerable and disabled fend for themselves.

In the days of Christ, there was no taxpayer funded public assistance/largess given to generations of welfare families. If someone was unable to work to provide for their own food and shelter due to disability or age without any family support, they had to sit in public areas asking for donations. If that were done in the USA today, able-bodied welfare dads and moms might figure out a way to not have more babies they were unable to provide for, and, figure out ways to make some money to take care of their needs.

I believe that the "Christians/conservatives" want to get away from the year-after-year-after-year taxpayer support of able-bodied individuals. Of course, some of these individuals might turn to crime to support themselves, rather than finding and keeping jobs or getting an education to increase their likelihood of finding work.

Who here would like to donate some money to purchase cellphones for those living on welfare. You can send  your monthly checks to me and I will forward them to the nearest welfare office. That's what some welfare agencies are already doing, according to one report, providing cellphones and cell service for free to their "clients". I suppose free internet service is coming soon, but only for welfare recipients.

[CoAspen]

So are you saying that Christ changed his careplan for people from that of the  OT to a nocare plan in the NT??

You seem rather disdainful of those down and out suggesting that they are deadbeats.

In case you missed Gails post....

 But the OT did make provision for the poor that people would not consider today, such as the jubilee concept (returning all possessions forfeited by debt), refusing to charge interest on loans and giving a person in need whatever s/he asks for without question. Immigrants were to be well-treated, too, because the people of Israel were once foreigners and I'll-treated. They were not to forget what it feels like.

[Bravus]

I agree with Gail: both the OT and the NT make massive provision for social safety nets, and this seems to be God's heart.

[Aliensanctuary]

I find it interesting that, while so many Christians hate evolution as an explanation of biology, and also try to place the crimes of the Nazis at the foot of Darwin, Social Darwinism seems to be the economic philosophy they support, with their disdain for safety nets and expectation that the poor, vulnerable and disabled fend for themselves. Those on the left, while more often atheist (although there are many Christians on the left too), tend to value social support, safety nets and a hand up for those who are struggling. And it seems to me that the latter is what the Bible also advocates.

[I find it quite unremarkable that, because so many atheists hate creation as an explanation of biology, Social Darwinism, the wage earners vs. the welfare recipients, seems to be the economic philosophy they support, with their disdain for fiscally responsible safety nets and expectations that others, in addition to the poor, vulnerable and disabled, need not fend for themselves. Those on the Right, while more often Christian (although there are many Christians on the Left too), tend to value social support, safety nets and a hand up for those who are actually struggling because of age or disability. And it seems to me that the latter is what the Bible also advocates.]

It seems that back in the OT and NT days it was more of an individual responsibility to help the poor, who really were poor, and not by governmental taxation. Today, the politicians and bureaucrats have created a massive, wasteful welfare system that far too many have taken advantage of, charging it all to the taxpayers who have infinitely deep pockets. Sure, there are the truly needy, the poor, vulnerable and disabled who are unable to work or support themselves who should be helped, but government casts a very wide net that also welcomes the dishonest, the lawbreakers, the unqualified, and the system abusers. I believe the political Right has a goal to cut the able-bodied freeloaders off of public welfare, which I fully support.

So, we as taxpayers, right or left, atheist or Christian, willingly or not, presently support those who cannot or will not work, not by dropping money into the cups of beggars, as in some other countries or times, but by deductions from our paychecks.

We can always send money to the save-the-children fundraisers, but only a small percentage of our contributions are actually used to benefit the intended recipients. The rest goes for salaries and administrative expenses, as I understand it.

[Outta Here]

I guess that's why we have ADRA and our local Adventist Community Services....and other local outreaches our church supports to help those in need. 

[Gail]

In this I agree with what Aliens. is saying- that the responsibility for the poor should be an individual one.

Here in a different country we view welfare differently. It and our health care system were created as one way to help the poor. So we gladly contribute towards that effort. Churches are a big help, too, but it still doesn't substitute for an attitude for personal support for them on our part.

In the OT mandate a person was NOT to ask whether this person was lazy or whether he would spend the money on drugs or cellphones. If they had a need and asked they were not to be refused.

[joeb]

As usual, Bravus, you filter everything through your ideological lens before you begin to reason. 

1.  God didn't set up a dog-eat-dog system.  He doesn't work that way.  

2.  Christians, at least those who put Biblical principles before political ideology, believe in the system God set up, both economically and socially: Individualism and capitalism.

3.  Individualism stresses personal responsibility, personal morality, and liberty of conscience.  Capitalism is compatible with that. 

What you want is to make the government the conscience for everyone.  You want it to tell everyone what to do.  How much money they can make.  How they can spend what they earn.  What is moral and what isn't.  And on and on.  You deny it every time I start posting what socialist governments do, but the fact remains that what I posted above is exactly what you want. 

You don't think people are capable of thinking on their own and making good decisions so you want the government to make those decisions for them.  That, Bravus, is the very spirit of totalitarianism.  You've denied it again and again, but your denials ring false in light of opening post on this thread, and other posts you have made.  You want government to do what YOU think is right, and run right over the top of those who disagree with you.  That's the socialism that YOU are for.

Socialism is not compatible with personal responsibility, personal morality, and liberty of conscience.  What's going on in this country right now tells that story very well, as the government is making arbitrary decisions as to what is moral and what isn't.  And what it decides isn't moral it suppresses, even though that suppression goes against the sincerely held beliefs of individuals.  That is the story of socialism everywhere it has been.  It doesn't put an end to the evils of human nature.  Far from it.  The exact same faults are found everywhere in this world.  Racism, greed, hatred, selfishness, etc....  All of those evils exist in great quantity in Australia.  They also exist in the same quantity in all the socialist states of Europe.  Just like they do in the US.  No form of human government can extinguish them.  All socialism does is create a monstrously large monopoly and focus all the power in just a very few hands.    And every government always accrues power to itself so the more power you give it to begin with the the worse the situation gets.  Power corrupts, and that is something you socialists always forget. 

[bonnie]

Social Darwinism seems to be the economic philosophy they support, with their disdain for safety nets and expectation that the poor, vulnerable and disabled fend for themselves.

 

For those that consider truth important it is interesting they repeat this falsehood every chance they get. Maybe repeating it over and over will make it sound more truthful?

You can search C/A from beginning to end or  and you will not find any conservative that believes or has said the underlined.Total fabrication. Nor is it true in the general public

Truth should be important to liberals as well

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CoAspen]

Christians, at least those who put Biblical principles before political ideology, believe in the system God set up, both economically and socially: Individualism and capitalism.

 Would you provide the Biblical backup statements for the above quote? Not the man made practices, but any principle outlined by God. Just so we are on the same page...the defs. are below.

capitalism
noun
an economic and political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state.

socialism
noun
a political and economic theory of social organization that advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

individualism

noun
1 the habit or principle of being independent and self-reliant.
• self-centered feeling or conduct; egoism.

So please give us the the Bible words of Christ , in context, where he taught this.

 

[Bravus]

Gail clarified something I should have: I was not talking about what the Bible says, I was talking about what modern right-wing 'Christians' say. My view is that what they say is incompatible with what the Bible says. I have no beef with what the Bible says. I actively like and support the system God set up (hint: it's not capitalism).

[bonnie]

Gail clarified something I should have: I was not talking about what the Bible says, I was talking about what modern right-wing 'Christians' say. My view is that what they say is incompatible with what the Bible says. I have no beef with what the Bible says. I actively like and support the system God set up (hint: it's not capitalism).

Can you please provide a few statements,links or names  of what right wing christians say,ones that promote.. disdain for safety nets and expectation that the poor, vulnerable and disabled fend for themselves. 

[phkrause]

Gail clarified something I should have: I was not talking about what the Bible says, I was talking about what modern right-wing 'Christians' say. My view is that what they say is incompatible with what the Bible says. I have no beef with what the Bible says. I actively like and support the system God set up (hint: it's not capitalism).

I didn't even think that people needed a hint about capitalism! It is most definitely not something that God setup in the old testament!!

[Geoarrge]

The moral thing to do is to look after the poor, vulnerable and disabled to whatever degree satisfies your own conscience.

Don't try to dictate your neighbors' moral obligations. That is the path to tyranny.