A John 3:16 Thought...

[Wingnut]

I know I could be utterly wrong but this is the scenario in heaven which I envision before the creation of man.

Christ: Wouldn't it be nice to have more beings like ourself around in heaven.

Father: Why, its been fine with just us since forever?

Christ:  But Daddy, think how much more exciting and fun filled it could be.

Father:  This is like getting a puppy.  If we go ahead with this you are going to have to show commitment and take care of all the mess.

Christ:  Father, I will, I will.

Father:  The only way I can be sure of your commitment, and that you are prepared to clean up the mess which surely will arise, is to be prepared to die for this project.  If you will commit to dying, and suffering along with them, then I will commit to the aggravation and totally commit to this project too.  And I agree with you, the final end would be as wonderful as you say.

Christ:  I will do it, I will die to show my commitment, because I know you can save me and raise me to eternal life again, just as you can them

 

Thus I see Christ as initiating this "project" but I don't have a scrap of proof for the above scenario, except it sounds more fair that Christ would be given a choice of dying, as opposed to being commanded to die by the Father.

[8thdaypriest]

The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. CH 222  {AUCR, April 1, 1901 par. 10}

2 Cor 13:14     The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen. 

Verses showing Jesus is not  also the Holy Spirit.

I will put my responses in red. 

Luke 1:41        And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost

"God is Spirit" (John 4) yes Jesus did NOT say that they would worship the Spirit.  Jesus said they would worship "the Father". 

I believe the Spirit IS the spirit of God the Father.  God the Father gave His spirit without measure to His Son, enabling the Son (after He was glorified) to also be omnipresent once again. 

Luke 11:13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" (Luk 11:13 NKJ)

We are to ASK the Father FOR the Spirit, and He will give His Spirit. 

Mark 1:10       And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:   1:11     And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.   1:12          And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness

John 1:32         And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 

Luke 4:1          And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness

Once again:  The Spirit - which descended, and the Spirit which drove Jesus into the wilderness, is the Spirit of the Father.  He went into the wilderness to commune with His Father. 

Luke 4:18        The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

John 3:34         For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure [unto him]. 

And WHO gives the Spirit?  The Father.  "How much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!" (Luk 11:13 NKJ)

In Jesus last public prayer, He prayed TO HIS FATHER (John Cpt 17).  

"Father, the hour has come.  Glorify You Son, that Your Son also may glorify You."  - no mention of the Spirit.  

"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent."   

Who is Jesus speaking with here?  Answer:  "Father".  He calls His Father, "the only true God".

v.5  "And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was."  (No mention of the Spirit also.)

v. 21  "You, Father, are in Me, and I in You"  (So the Spirit IN Jesus was His Father.)

SIX TIMES in this prayer, Jesus repeats "Father". 

And the last words Jesus spoke were "Father, into Thy hands I commend my spirit." 

In fact, Jesus NEVER spoke TO the Holy Spirit - only to His FATHER.

 There is another mediator "in the mix"

John 16:12       I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.  16:13   Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.  16:14   He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show [it] unto you. 

Jackson, I believe Jesus was speaking of HIMSELF, in third person as "He".  He did that a few other times too, speaking of himself as "the Son of Man" or as "he".  Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. (Mat 25:31 NKJ)

THE SOURCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

Acts 2:33  "Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received FROM the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He (Jesus) poured out this which you now see and hear." 

Jesus poured out the Holy Spirit!   He poured out the spirit AFTER receiving this spirit from His Father.  

John the Baptist said OF CHRIST, "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." (Matt 3:11, Mk 1:8, Lk 3:16). 

The Spirit proceeds FROM the FATHER, and is given to Christ, who then pours out this Spirit upon us.  We experience this Spirit as the presence of Christ.  

Ephesians 1:17 "that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him," (NKJ)

Ephesians 8:11 "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you." 

Galatians 1:1, and I Peter 1:3, say that God His Father raised Christ from death. 

Mark 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 
 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 
 3:30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit

To blaspheme against the Holy Spirit, is to deny that this Spirit is of God.  If one does this, He cuts himself OFF from the influence of that Spirit in his heart.  THAT is why this sin is unpardonable.  Not because the Spirit is a third divine being. 

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Rachel, one more thought on this point about Eusebius.

If Eusebius' rendering of Matt 28:19 cannot be traced to any Biblical manuscript, then an alternative explanation comes to mind. It runs like this.

 

Eusebius was a representative of a church that did not know Jesus, but they were invoking His name. In the time of Eusebius (300'sA.D), untaught, untrained, people were coming into the ministry, and many of these "trusted in the magical virtue of ordination" to make up for their lack of knowledge. (Schaff vol.3, chp.5, sec 48.) Many also believed that by invoking the name of Jesus they would be able to perform miracles. (ibid. vol.2, chp.3 sec 40.)  It does not seem out of the question to me, that Eusebius and his church should produce "evidence" to support their beliefs and practices. By making Matt 28:19 into a text that focused primarily on the name of Jesus, they were able to cultivate a superstitious veneration for Jesus' name. The cloak of superstition shrouded the so-called Christian faith, and Jesus' name became part of  their magical "formulas". So to put Jesus' name alone into 'the great commission' would seem quite logical.

Stewart,

It doesn't seem ODD to you, that manuscripts of the Book of Matthew (pre-constantine) still exist today, but EVERY ONE OF THEM has the last portion of the text MISSING - the part with the baptismal formula???  I mean - how could THAT HAPPEN - unless all the manuscripts were rounded up (at the order of Constantine) and then the last portion was removed. 

[8thdaypriest]

I know I could be utterly wrong but this is the scenario in heaven which I envision before the creation of man.

Christ: Wouldn't it be nice to have more beings like ourself around in heaven.

Father: Why, its been fine with just us since forever?

Christ:  But Daddy, think how much more exciting and fun filled it could be.

Father:  This is like getting a puppy.  If we go ahead with this you are going to have to show commitment and take care of all the mess.

Christ:  Father, I will, I will.

Father:  The only way I can be sure of your commitment, and that you are prepared to clean up the mess which surely will arise, is to be prepared to die for this project.  If you will commit to dying, and suffering along with them, then I will commit to the aggravation and totally commit to this project too.  And I agree with you, the final end would be as wonderful as you say.

Christ:  I will do it, I will die to show my commitment, because I know you can save me and raise me to eternal life again, just as you can them

 

Thus I see Christ as initiating this "project" but I don't have a scrap of proof for the above scenario, except it sounds more fair that Christ would be given a choice of dying, as opposed to being commanded to die by the Father.

YUK!!!!

Jesus said plainly that He came to do THE WILL of His FATHER. 

[8thdaypriest]

Jackson quoted

2 Cor 13:14     The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, [be] with you all. Amen. 

“Our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son” (1John 1:3, 1John 2:24). (There is no mention of fellowship WITH the Spirit, just the fellowship OF the Spirit.)

All “the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hidden in the Father and the Son” (Col. 2:2-3).

I find I Corinthians 15:24-28 most compelling:

"Then the end will come, when he [Christ] hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

There's no mention here, that Christ will be subject to the SPIRIT.  He will be subject to His Father.  The Father is "the only true God" (Jn 17).  The Father will be "all in all".  

[8thdaypriest]

The Godhead was stirred with pity for the race, and the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit gave themselves to the working out of the plan of redemption. CH 222  {AUCR, April 1, 1901 par. 10}

This was 1901.  Before 1896 she wrote, "The Father and Son alone are to be praised." 

I believe that Mrs White erred here Jackson.  I believe she was influenced, and got off track.  She was NOT infallible.

I can give you more EGW quotations that put the Father as sovereign, and glorify only TWO divine beings, than you can quote to show there are three divine beings.

"Christ came to reveal to the world, in the sight of heavenly intelligences, the true character of the Father, adn to present his claims to the sovereignty of the universe."  S0T, Jn 13, 1895

If there ARE three divine beings, as you say, then they were NOT co-equal. 

Just look at "the LORD's prayer".  It's all about the Father, His will, His kingdom, and His name.

[pnattmbtc]

I know I could be utterly wrong but this is the scenario in heaven which I envision before the creation of man.

Christ: Wouldn't it be nice to have more beings like ourself around in heaven.

Father: Why, its been fine with just us since forever?

Christ:  But Daddy, think how much more exciting and fun filled it could be.

Father:  This is like getting a puppy.  If we go ahead with this you are going to have to show commitment and take care of all the mess.

Christ:  Father, I will, I will.

Father:  The only way I can be sure of your commitment, and that you are prepared to clean up the mess which surely will arise, is to be prepared to die for this project.  If you will commit to dying, and suffering along with them, then I will commit to the aggravation and totally commit to this project too.  And I agree with you, the final end would be as wonderful as you say.

Christ:  I will do it, I will die to show my commitment, because I know you can save me and raise me to eternal life again, just as you can them

 

Thus I see Christ as initiating this "project" but I don't have a scrap of proof for the above scenario, except it sounds more fair that Christ would be given a choice of dying, as opposed to being commanded to die by the Father.

Jesus said, "When you have seen Me, you've seen the Father."  From the Spirit of Prophecy, had the Father come instead of Christ, the history of what happened would have been no different.

Both Father and Son have the same character. 

[Wingnut]

Jesus said, "When you have seen Me, you've seen the Father."  From the Spirit of Prophecy, had the Father come instead of Christ, the history of what happened would have been no different.

Both Father and Son have the same character. 

If you have seen my black cat then you have seen a black panther.  But when you see them in person, you will know the difference.

[Wingnut]

YUK!!!!

Jesus said plainly that He came to do THE WILL of His FATHER. 

Everything that is allowed to happen in heaven or on earth is the will of the father.  Even everything Christ does.  "Out Father who art in heaven ...THY will be done..."  

[pnattmbtc]

If you have seen my black cat then you have seen a black panther.  But when you see them in person, you will know the difference.

You think the black cat could say, "When you've see me, you've seem the panther"?

[GayatfootofCross]

If you have seen my black cat then you have seen a black panther.  But when you see them in person, you will know the difference.

 Hi Wingnut! GBU! and interesting name.

(there are a many interesting names here)

There is no difference!

 

... and that is the GOOD NEWS!

 

#Father Himself loves you John 16:27

 

[Wingnut]

 Hi Wingnut! GBU! and interesting name.

(there are a many interesting names here)

There is no difference!

 

... and that is the GOOD NEWS!

 

#Father Himself loves you John 16:27

 

Thanks.  My name comes from my love of paragliding which I gave up after flying into a rock and being unable to walk properly for two years.

I think your quoting 1 Cor 15:24-28 clinches it how much greater the Father is than the Son.

As does the Father telling the Son to sit on His right hand till He (the Father) makes his enemies his footstool.

As does the following...  I have always assumed that the glory of the sun refers to the Father, and the reflected full moon glory that of the Son.  The other day there was a hazy sunrise and I could not tell if the object in the sky was sun or moon since you could stare at it with no difficulty.  It turned out to be the sun.  Likewise I see this as if you have seen the one you have seen the other, but the one is greater in glory (brightness) than the other.

 

1 Corinthians 15:41 | Read whole chapter | See verse in context

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

Thanks.  My name comes from my love of paragliding which I gave up after flying into a rock and being unable to walk properly for two years.

I think your quoting 1 Cor 15:24-28 clinches it how much greater the Father is than the Son.

As does the Father telling the Son to sit on His right hand till He (the Father) makes his enemies his footstool.

As does the following...  I have always assumed that the glory of the sun refers to the Father, and the reflected full moon glory that of the Son.  The other day there was a hazy sunrise and I could not tell if the object in the sky was sun or moon since you could stare at it with no difficulty.  It turned out to be the sun.  Likewise I see this as if you have seen the one you have seen the other, but the one is greater in glory (brightness) than the other.

 

1 Corinthians 15:41 | Read whole chapter | See verse in context

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory

 

 

hmmmm..

[8thdaypriest]

Singular pronouns indicating possession, source, or relation, are used extensively with the word spirit throughout Scripture.  The Holy Spirit is called “His spirit,” “My spirit,” “the spirit of the Lord,” “the spirit of God,” “the spirit of Him” or “Your spirit.”

This suggests that the Holy Spirit is the omnipresence and power of the Father and/or of Christ.  In Matthew 12:18,  Luke 4:18, and Romans 8:11, the Spirit is “the Spirit of the Father.”  1 Peter 1:10-11 refers to the “Spirit of Christ” as the inspiration of Old Testament prophets.

Even if you consider Revelations messages to the 7 churches, each message IS CHRIST SPEAKING.  The command is given "Hear what the Spirit says", but Christ is the one speaking.

To Ephesus:  "These things says He who . . . "walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands:" (2:1)  Who is this?  Jesus.

To Smyrna:  "These things says" the One "who was dead and came to life." (v.2:8)  . . . "Be faithful unto death and I will give you the crown of life." (v.10)  Who is speaking here?  Jesus!

To Thyatira:  "These things says the Son of God"  (2:18).

If you say that the Spirit is a third divine being, who communicates the words of Christ to our minds, then you HAVE put another MEDIATOR - in between.  Then it's God (the Father) who communicates with us THROUGH His Son, who then communicates with us THROUGH God (the Holy Spirit).   This leaves no mediator BETWEEN God and man. 

It's God - Christ - God - man.  

But I Timothy 2:5 says it's God - Christ - man. 

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Paul said, “There is One God, the Father, of Whom are all things, AND One Lord Jesus Christ, through Whom are all things” (1Corinthians 8:6). 

He also wrote, “one God and Father of all, Who is above all, and through all, and in you all” (Ephesians 4:6).  This is only possible if God IS spirit. 

We were created by the Father,  through the Son   (1Cor.8:6,  Eph.3:9, Col.1:12-16, Heb.1:1-3).

    The family is named after the Father.  

        Ephesians 3:14,15  [Paul writing] “For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ’ of Whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named.”

NEVER any mention of bowing knees to the Spirit. 

     Those who enter the heavenly mansions will have the name of the Father AND of the Son written in their foreheads (Rev. 14:1, Rev.3:12).  

Why not also the name of the Holy Spirit?

        Revelation 3:12  “He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more.  And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God.  And I will write on him My new name.”

And WHO is the God of Christ?  His Father !

The Father is the God of Christ (Jn. 20:17, Rom. 15:6, 1Cor. 11:3, 2Cor. 1:3, 2Cor. 11:31, Eph. 1:3, Eph. 1:17, Col. 1:3, Heb. 1:9, 1Pet 1:3, Rev. 1:6).

Edited October 3, 2015 by 8thdaypriest

[8thdaypriest]

We are reconciled to the Father through the Son (Col 1:19-20).

There is no mention of reconciliation TO the Spirit. 

[8thdaypriest]

Christ was “sent by the Father” (John 5:23, 5:30, 5:36, 5:37, 6:39, 6:44, 6:57, 8:16, 8:29, 8:42, 10:36, 12:49, 17:21, 20:21, 1John 4:14).  

    Never did Christ say that He was sent by the Spirit.
 
    The Father glorified Christ, the Father gave Christ authority, the Father is the “Only True God,” the Father sent Christ, the Father was glorified by Christ, the Father assigned Christ His work, and Christ existed with the Father [no special mention of the Spirit also] before the world existed (John 17:1-5).

[8thdaypriest]

We “abide in the Son and in the Father” (1John 2:24).

No mention of abiding IN the Spirit.

[8thdaypriest]

John 17:1 & 3  “Jesus spoke these words lifted His eyes to heaven, and said: ‘Father [first person] the hour is come. Glorify Your Son [second person] that Your Son also may glorify You [first person], . . . And this is eternal life, that they may know You [first person],  the only true God, and Jesus Christ [second person] Whom You [first person] have sent.’”

Where is a THIRD PERSON in this?

[8thdaypriest]

Christ stated that no one, not even the Son Himself, knew the day or the hour of His return to earth, but the “Father only” (Matt. 24:36).

Why wouldn't the Spirit also "know", if indeed He is a third co-equal divine being? 

Either "the Father" is TWO divine beings, Father and Spirit,  OR there are only TWO divine beings - God our Father, AND the Lord Jesus Christ. 

[8thdaypriest]

God so loved the world that He [singular] gave His [singular] only begotten Son” (John 3:16).

    If “God” is three co-equal divine beings, then one of that Trinity could assume the role of a Son, but you could not say that a Father “gave His Son.”

    Did the Apostolic writers intend to mislead?  I don't believe so.  I understand the Bible as it reads.  Jesus Christ was and is the begotten Son of God our Father.  That is who He is.  That understanding is the foundation of our faith.

If something I've said has peaked your curiosity, then follow this link to a compilation of articles on this subject at my website.  These articles are Bible only.  I published the collection with all the EGW quotes many years ago as "The Persons of God".  Blessings, Rachel

http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Collected Trinity studies.pdf

Edited October 3, 2015 by 8thdaypriest

[stinsonmarri]

Rachael What you stated THREE CO EQUAL  ALMIGHTY BEINGS is not the trinity which means a piece of the a whole a tri! The Adventist Church did not believe in the trinity but still thought THEY were persons and this word stands for human beings only! You are right with your first concept. But people always looking out of away to said that Matthew 28:19 was false. The Bible from the very beginning always use the plural word ELOHIM but most won't to over look this. Also, the Bible said let US make into OUR OWN IMAGE not any person ridiculous this is. You see if something need to be explain look for facts. John Chapter 17 tells quite clearly that THE SON came in THE FATHER'S NAME and did everything to GLORIFY HIS FATHER. The OT prove very clearly even by a converted heathen king that all things were done by all THREE! Dan 3:25; Chapter 4. Nebuchadnezzar, first see and identifies the exact IMAGE of THE SON of ELOHIM. Even his magicians knew that only THE HIGH and LOFTY BEINGS that did not dwell with flesh could only truly read men's thoughts! Nebuchadnezzar also spoke of THE HOLY SPIRIT and the word "o"f is not in the Hebrew language. THE NAME YAHSHUA is of THE FATHER as here Prov. 30:3, 4 speaks about BOTH NAMES. All through the Bible show proof that THREE ALMIGHTY BEINGS exist and YAHSHUA respects HIS FATHER, that even when you pray you must HALLOWED THE FATHER'S NAME. The original Syriac and Peshitta states this:

 From these examples we can clearly see that the Old Syriac and Peshitta are directly related to each other apart from the Greek textual tradition. The Old Syriac and Peshitta are part of the same Aramaic scribal textual tradition and neither was translated directly from the Greek. By James Trimm

It is also know by many Biblical scholars that the NT was written in Hebrew that was destroyed both by the Rabbi and the Catholic Church. The latter to erase Judaism! The Bible no matter what is consistent and I accept as I always will do what is written and factual!

 

Blessings and happy Sabbath! 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Rachel, what are you trying to show by your last 8 posts?  You appear to be trying to make 2 points. One, that members of the Godhead are not equal in authority, and two, that the Holy Spirit is not a "personage" of the Godhead.

The Bible is clear that the Father has preeminence in the Godhead. See 1 Cor 11:3, 15:28 and john 14:28. So what does this Bible truth have to do with whether there is a Trinity or not.

Or were you making the point that if all in the Godhead were co-equal there could not be a Trinity?

Also when you paraphrase Mrs White please give book and page so I can see the context.

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

I am trying to say that there ARE only 2 divine personages - God our Father AND Jesus Christ, His son. 

I believe that God beget a Son - in His express image - BEFORE anything was created.  This Son became the agent of His Father, in creation, in mediation, in redemption. 

The Son existed in the SAME FORM as the Father - as spirit, but He took the form of the created being, in order to facilitate communication.  He first took the form of an angel, and later took the form (and the nature) of a man. 

When Jesus returned to heaven after His resurrection, He was glorified by His Father.  He received the Father's spirit - "without measure".  Jesus then poured out His own presence - what you would call "the Holy Spirit". 

His spirit presence, is NOT another divine being, in the sense that we should worship another being.  In Scripture - we are only to worship God our Father, AND Christ His Son. 

The Spirit IS Christ - in another form.  In fact - The Son of God, has taken more than one form.  1. Spirit  2. form of an angel 3. form of a man and 4. form of Spirit again.

Which is why I quoted I Cor. 15:45, which says "the last Adam became a life giving spirit:.  Jesus BECAME the Holy Spirit - with us. 

"Cumbered with humanity, Christ could not be in every place personally; therefore it was altogether for their advantage that He should leave them, go to His father, and send the Holy Spirit to be His successor on earth.  The Holy Spirit is Himself, divested of the personality of humanity, and independent thereof.  He would represent Himself as present in all places by His Holy Spirit, as the Omnipresent."  Manuscript Releases Vol. 14, pg 23, pr3 (1895)

I'm giving a few EGW quotes, just to show that her writings really DID change, on the subject of the Holy Spirit, AFTER 1896, when her underwriter (Marion Davis) heard Herbert Lacey at a Camp Meeting, down in Australia.  Lacey bragged to Froom, that his words "third person of the Godhead" were included in the Desire of Ages.   Now - just HOW the change in her writings came about, is debatable. 

Early references to the Holy Spirit as "it" were changed in later published writings, by the Review and Herald - to "he". 

"The Holy Spirit is promised to all who will ask for it.  When you search the scriptures, the Holy Spirit is by your side, personating Jesus Christ."  (Letter February 6, 1894) The Paulson Collection of Ellen G. White Letters, pg 101, pr.3

"When Christ entered within the heavenly gates, He was enthroned, amid the songs of millions of angels.  As soon as this ceremony was completed, the Holy Spirit descended upon His followers in rich currents according to Christ's promise, and they were no more orphans.  How quickly Christ fulfilled His promise, and sent from the heavenly courts the guarantee of His love!  After his inauguration, the Spirit came and Christ was indeed glorified, even with the glory which He had from all eternity with the Father.  During His humiliation upon this earth, the Spirit had not descended with all its efficacy; and Christ declared that if He went not away, it would not come, but that if He went away, He would send it.  It was a representation of himself, and after he was glorified it was manifest."  Signs of the Times, May 17, 1899, pr.3

I AGREE completely with the quotes I just gave.  I believe that the Holy Spirit Comforter, is a manifestation of the presence of the omnipresent Christ.  It is Christ with us. 

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

CHRIST AND THE FATHER

"Christ and the Father would redeem the fallen race."  Signs of the Times, Feb. 17, 1909, pr9

"Before the foundations of the earth were laid, the Father and the Son had united in a covenant to redeem man if he should be overcome by Satan . . . When upon the cross He cried out, 'It is finished.' He addressed the Father."  Desire of Ages, pg 834 (1898).

"The plan of salvation, devised by the Father and the Son, will be a grand success."  (Signs of the Times, June 17, 1903, pr2)

"Before the fall of man, the Son of God had united with his Father in laying the plan of salvation."  (R&H, Spt 13, 1906, pr.4)

"A covenant has been entered into by the Father and by the Son to save the world through Christ." (Signs of the Times, Oct. 10, 1892, pr.1)

"At what infinite cost to the Father and to the Son we the merciful, wondrous prevision made for our redemption!"  (Signs of the Times, Aug. 12, 1908, pr3.)

CONTRAST THE ABOVE STATEMENTS WITH THE FOLLOWING

"Our sanctification is the work of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.  . . . Cooperate with the three great powers of heaven who arew working in your behalf. (MS11, 1901) Sot Jn 19, 1901, pr.4

"The three dignitaries and powers of heaven pledge themselves that every facility shall be given to us if we carry out or baptismal vows. . . (MS 85, 1901) Bible Commentary Vol 6, pg1075

"The three powers of the Godhead have pledged their might to carry out the purpose that God had in mind, when he gave to the world the unspeakable gift of his Son."  RH, July 18, 1907, pr3

"The three powers of the Godhead, the Father,  Son, and Holy Spirit, are pledged to be their strength and their efficiency in their new life in Christ Jesus." (Australasian Union Conference Record, Oct. 7, 1907, pr9)

"When you went down into the water and were baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these three great powers of heaven pledged themselves to give you power and grace to resist every temptation to dishonor God."  Manuscript Releases Volume Nineteen, pg.235, pr2, written Feb 5. 1907)

EVERY statement that refers to "three persons of the Heavenly trio" or "three great powers of heaven", or "three dignitaries of heaven" was written between 1900 and 1910 - a window of 10 years.    The "third person of the Godhead" statement was written in 1896 by Herbert Lacey.  It was included in Desire of Ages. 

[8thdaypriest]

Here are a few more on the Holy Spirit:

"Christ, in His mediatorial capacity, give to His servants the presence of the Holy Spirit."  Testimonies for the Church Volume Seven, pg30.

Christ gives the Spirit.

"He [Christ] now claimed the gift of the Spirit, that He might pour it out upon His disciples (SW Nov. 28, 1905) Bible Commentary Vol. 6, pg 1055, pr.2

Christ gives the Spirit. 

"All are to remember that they are in the presence of Christ, and in no case are they to utter a word that will grieve the Holy Spirit."  Notebook Leaflets from the Elmshaven Library, Vol. 1, pg 46, pr.1 (December 10, 1905). 

The Holy Spirit IS "the presence of Christ" - NOT a third divine being. 

Here is one by Prescott.  I totally agree with his statement.

"Plainly the coming of the Comforter is the coming of Jesus in the Spirit. . . . We have a Comforter or Advocate in Heaven, Jesus Christ the righteous, there present in a bodily form, just as he ascended from this earth, and we have in our hearts the same Jesus in the Spirit, the other Comforter who is just Jesus' other self."  Prescott 1928 Radio Broadcast

I have many more Jackson.   I searched the EGW database for years, collecting every statement I could find, on the Father and Son, and later (1900 to 1910) the "three beings". 

What I found was a CLEAR CHANGE from two divine beings, to three divine beings.  

In Scripture, there are only TWO beings - Father and Son.  What I found in Ellen White's writings caused me to realize that she was NOT infallible, and HAD made mistakes.