Ever been to an AA meeting?

[Stan]

I was invited to one, and was amazed of the people. It was an open mic or something like that, where a speaker from another group came in and shared her story. As I looked around the room I saw those with struggles that I would not want to ever have, yet they were at peace over the peace they had found, and success. It was very moving to say the least.

 

I knew of an adventist Church that would host a NA meeting Saturday midnight, was told if they can make it through Saturday night, they can usually make it through the rest of the week..

 

I was asked if our Church could ever be as open and accepting as they are. I think the answer is a clear no.

 

ANYONE else attended something like that?

[phkrause]

No I have not

[joeb]

Never been to an AA meeting, but have been to years of NA meetings.  The openness you see in AA or NA meetings comes from a group of people who have a common experience.  That is where the acceptance comes from, and the courage to speak out.  Most of those same people would be very hesitant to speak out like that under different circumstances, or in a group made up of people without the same common experiences.  That common experience is what creates the acceptance, for everyone that is a member knows exactly what the speakers are going through. 

To expect people that have no common experience to draw on to have the same understanding and experience is foolish for only heart experience can create the acceptance you see in an AA or NA meeting.  Everyone there knows and understands the pain, heartache, and self-destructiveness from personal experience.   That said, I have found individuals within the church who are just as accepting and understanding of the problems an addict faces.  Do they have the same experiences?  No.  But, they have a common understanding when they see sin as the underlying problem and acknowledge their own addiction to sin. 

You will not find a significant difference between the response from many inside the SDA church and those from other denominations and the reason for that is the lack of common experience that says there can be no heart knowledge of the issues.  To expece someone who has never been an addict to understand the issues and the weaknesses is an unreasonable expectation.  Only those with a great ability to generalize from one set of circumstances to another can even come close to understanding, and from thence to accepting.    

That said, even within the AA and NA people you will find a lot of human cruelty and intolerance once you get outside of the common experience they share.  Many of them will refuse to associate with the very people they will support inside a meeting once they are out in the "real" world.  They share the same dislikes, prejudices, and judgmentalism that the rest of humanity has within it.

I'm sort of a rarity in that I will talk about the pain, the issues, etc... that lead to addiction.  The reason isn't because I'm courageous, but because I learned a long time ago that I just don't care what people think of me.  If someone can be encouraged by hearing/reading of someone else who has the same common experience they have, then anything anyone else has to say is just so much noise.  If they want to excoriate me, talk behind my back, refuse to associate with me, etc... I just don't care.  As long as I do what my conscience tells me is the right thing to do, consequences be hanged.  The only person whose love and acceptance I crave is God's.  I learned at a young age the human race is pretty unreliable and people will always let you down.  Only God has never done me dirt.    

[Gail]

We all have something...  Blessed is the one fortunate enough to have found some others understanding enough to trust with life's burdens. Even one friend can make a difference in the courage another rustles up for the day.

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, back in the days when I worked in a alcoholism treatment unit, I attended AA meetings.  I have often said that I wish that the same openness and honest confession and supportiveness among fellow strugglers could be found in church.  I think that was a very real part of what we can see in the NT church.

[Gail]

One thing that helps to make people real is persecution. When life is tough then people feel their dependence on those with whom they share their worldview.

[teresaq]

Yes. In person and online. In the SDA church and out. Too bad the SDA church really doesn't get the rotation of "leaders" bit. :( But that may not be across the board. Our abuse program is also something, a start. Too bad they are so hidden for the most part. :( http://www.adventistrecovery.org/article/56/resources/get-started-and-involve-your-church

I have found no hindrance whatsoever to practicing the program in my personal life. I think if we are stuck on the addiction part we can be blind to seeing how it is really pure bible put in a step format and life-changing. I practiced it to some degree over the decades since late 70's but not as deep as I should. Still it did work continual changes in me. Now I have found reason to "get serious" and boy am a I double timing. Still some faults are fighting to the death for survival, I swear! LOL Step One I am a sinner. I am powerless over being a sinner. I am powerless over sinning. Step two God can and will help me if sought. Step three I think I'll let Him. "It is God Who works in me both to will and to do." And boy does He if I just stay in surrender mode.

There seem to be degrees in practice, those/we who want to go all the way, and those who want to go just as much as they/we have to, much like church. This is just one instance where it seems to me that God had to bypass the church entirely to be able to reach people. Now how sad is that!

[Aliensanctuary]

My thinking is that some Sabbath School classes should be modeled after the AA methodology. Discussing the canned SS lessons will probably never affect a person's life in the way that baring your pain, your sorrows, your failures, and your successes to your peers can. SS is merely repetitive, external fluff, but sharing the secrets of your life and being held accountable for changes in behavior and attitude in a small group can transform you, sometimes requiring tears and hankies. One wouldn't necessarily have to meet on Sabbath in small groups, but it would be more convenient. This has already occurred in the past. Just put the SS lesson on the back burner and get on our hands and knees and cry out to God to change us for the better.

Although we can't read minds like Jesus Christ did, we can affect others by keeping and eye on them and encouraging them to be overcomers of the addictions that plague so many of us.

Yes, I have attended a few AA meetings in the past, not because I was addicted to harmful substances, but as a part of marriage counselling. At the time, I couldn't really relate to the type of people who attended. I might do better, now, after having a body grinder take off a few of my rough edges. Those meetings tend to create networks of encouragement. It's a great benefit to add a spiritual dimension using scripture and the teachings of Christ.

[GayatfootofCross]

Years ago, Chere Peters , the Host of CELEBRATE RECOVERY on  3ABN ...came to a big SDA Church for a weekend Seminar (a few towns away from me)....And that Church started a 12 step group to meet every Thursday Night. The Ministers wife set the tone. If someone was being real and sharing a deep pain. She would panic and had to give you a "Jesus loves U" sticker or sign. Like that would make everything go away. And God forbid you would talk about the same real pain next week.

. It was her missionary Christian job to fix you (many good Christian mindsets when it becomes too uncomfortable  ...just sayin). Of course the SDA Christian Culture also had to correct you with scriptures. Cross Talking* is a strict no no in many 12 step groups. But not here! Along with the constant accessing of everyone's spiritual walk of the general group was always taking place. God, our Christian Culture can be so TOXIC.

We started with like 15 people and by the time it ended it was down 3. ..so unsafe. Towards the end it just got real shallow and tense. I confronted the Ministers wife with a  letter I wrote (very early on about Cross Talk and the importance of not quoting bible verses/principles when someone shares something in their lives not measuring up to the 28   fundamental believes). And it went over her head. Towards the end I became more direct about just letting people share and sit quietly and not judging**. Of course by that time I was so irate by her constant spiritual abuse.. it showed in my eyes and voice. Then she had a real problem with me. So What! .. I was trying to save this supposed Ship in the Harbor ! I needed a Christian group that  I can actually feel SAFE in.  When I stopped going .. the group quit altogether cause it was down to TWO PEOPLE!

 Few people did speak up very timidly thru this eight month period. But I was more brazen cause this Church was a few towns away and I didn't go to this Church to face the weekly concussions/gossip. Also I know how 12 step groups supposed to look like. It was so bad. and tragically so sad. What a mess.

Another thing I witnessed was the Church Politics of holding office and gossip. A Lady told me she stopped going cause there was a real issue of her husband's neglect and whatnot(list is long)  but couldn't talk about it cause her mother in law is sitting right there. We all were stifled for one reason another.

I remember one night I'm giving a Praise Report of  of my sisters childhood boyfriend/neighbor who got cancer just after he became a Christian (as a very young adult) and he died still with an addiction to chewing tobacco. And what an amazing funeral Service/Witness to my non Christian parents (they watched this cowboy grow up)  we had ! Well The Ministers Wife got irrated cause he didn't have the victory and calling into question his salvation (?) and went on about the evils of blah blah and soon another Lady joined in too.  Calling sin by it's right name! Looking back I see it was a divergent tactic to prevent talk about the real stuff in our lives. Talking about others works very well. Sound familiar anyone?

The 12 Step Principles are biblical and we all our Sinners and come short and have JESUS as our Higher power. but in the wrong hands it can take you down.

 

*Cross Talk refers to people speaking out of turn, interrupting someone while they are speaking or giving direct advice to someone in a meeting.

** She didn't think she was judging..how dare 
I say that to her.. When someone tries to fix you  you can bet they JUDGED you first. And more than one person told her that it wasn't our job to fix people but to listen and to look for identifying with them in their stories and learning from another in our beautiful tragic commonality ..well anyhoooooooo

Edited October 5, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[GayatfootofCross]

btw..typing my above post brought up my frustration (yeah it shows) and lack of healing in what i thought was going to be very helpful in my growth

being the working poor and spending so much gas every week for 8 (?) months and working long dog days at a job i already drove a lot to get too (in a different direction) was a great deal of sacrifice and holding out the hope for so long i can be with like minded SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST CHRISTIANS made me stick around so long ... beating a dead horse

thanku for listening. I left out alot btw

alot alot

one of the church members in that 12 step group was featured  on CELEBRATE  RECOVERY on 3ABN years later. She became a good friend to Cherie Peters in all this.

Edited October 5, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[LifeHiscost]

btw..typing my above post brought up my frustration (yeah it shows) and lack of healing in what i thought was going to be very helpful in my growth

being the working poor and spending so much gas every week for 8 (?) months and working long dog days at a job i already drove a lot to get too (in a different direction) was a great deal of sacrifice and holding out the hope for so long i can be with like minded SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST CHRISTIANS made me stick around so long ... beating a dead horse

thanku for listening. I left out alot btw

alot alot

one of the church members in that 12 step group was featured  on CELEBRATE  RECOVERY on 3ABN years later. She became a good friend to Cherie Peters in all this.

One thing I and my spouse pray for just before attending either midweek prayer meeting or Sabbath school on Sabbath morning, is to bless the members of the group that is meeting together and to help us to speak as the Holy Spirit gives us the words He would have us voice as well as letting us know when to be silent. Then claim this promise for all involved.

23"In that day you will not question Me about anything. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask the Father for anything in My name, He will give it to you. 24"Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full. 25"These things I have spoken to you in figurative language; an hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figurative language, but will tell you plainly of the Father.…John 16

I'm sure Jesus prayed for these same things and you know how they treated Him. If we are true to the Word, what are we to expect, without complaining?

12Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. 13But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.…2 Timothy 3

God is Love!  Jesus saves!  

[GayatfootofCross]

btw  The Ministers Wife meant well.. She is a product of our SDA Christian Culture. And did not understand the 12 step process. Cause our Church (in General)  do not understand the Holy Grail of Growing up Together  in Christ)

Transparency, Connection, Safety, and Accountability that leads to Healing.

Many think we are accountable to each other or it is job to preach at each other.  without the other stuff...... NOPE! that is Spiritual Abuse.

It is Rampant in our Churches

 

how dare we think we are called to speak into each others lives without those Four things firmly placed in ours and others hearts

so ignorant and arrogant

Edited October 5, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[lazarus]

I attended an AA meeting to observe for a class I was taking some years ago. I had the immediate feeling that this is how a prayer meeting should be. Folks were accepting, respectful, eager to hear, and receive the experiences of others. They treated me as if I had been there a thousand times before. The meeting room as grubby and smelly but I felt comfortable. I said nothing for the whole meeting but three people came to me and offered their numbers just in case I needed anything. It was humbling and inspiring.

We have much to learn.

[joeb]

My thinking is that some Sabbath School classes should be modeled after the AA methodology. Discussing the canned SS lessons will probably never affect a person's life in the way that baring your pain, your sorrows, your failures, and your successes to your peers can. SS is merely repetitive, external fluff, but sharing the secrets of your life and being held accountable for changes in behavior and attitude in a small group can transform you, sometimes requiring tears and hankies. One wouldn't necessarily have to meet on Sabbath in small groups, but it would be more convenient. This has already occurred in the past. Just put the SS lesson on the back burner and get on our hands and knees and cry out to God to change us for the better.

Although we can't read minds like Jesus Christ did, we can affect others by keeping and eye on them and encouraging them to be overcomers of the addictions that plague so many of us.

Yes, I have attended a few AA meetings in the past, not because I was addicted to harmful substances, but as a part of marriage counselling. At the time, I couldn't really relate to the type of people who attended. I might do better, now, after having a body grinder take off a few of my rough edges. Those meetings tend to create networks of encouragement. It's a great benefit to add a spiritual dimension using scripture and the teachings of Christ.

I agree, but with a caveat.  That caveat is that all SS classes ought to be taught like that. 

I've taught SS classes and in my classes there was close to 100% participation.  If someone didn't speak out I asked them what they thought.  I made religion personal and relevant with everyday life and we went far beyond the scope of the quarterly.   I'm pretty proud, yes Robert, proud of the fact that there were several people baptised because of my classes.  Some were people who had left the church and started attending SS again and some were people who had had no previous contact with Adventism.  I know of no better feeling than that which comes from helping someone find a relationship with God.

On Sabbaths where there was no church service due to campmeeting or other local large SDA events we still held our SS class and those classes would last quite a bit longer than a normal class.  We'd start at the normal time and sometimes not end until 1:30 or 2:00 in the afternoon, and everyone stayed the entire time. 

[LifeHiscost]

  Some were people who had left the church and started attending SS again and some were people who had had no previous contact with Adventism.  I know of no better feeling than that which comes from helping someone find a relationship with God.

On Sabbaths where there was no church service due to campmeeting or other local large SDA events we still held our SS class and those classes would last quite a bit longer than a normal class.  We'd start at the normal time and sometimes not end until 1:30 or 2:00 in the afternoon, and everyone stayed the entire time. 

Praise God!   

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[debbym]

yes.  I listened to a confession of murder at an AA meeting.

[GayatfootofCross]

" yes.  I listened to a confession of murder at an AA meeting. " - debbym

 

wow! You don't see usually see that in Church!.... Unless your St. Paul!

 

 

# If we don't take our cue from St.Paul in Church or Even Jesus with his Disciples.. where do we take our cue from?

 

Edited October 9, 2015 by GayatfootofCross
uhhh..nevermind

[Gail]

Yes, I can see that it didn't form as planned! Will I ever know what Paul said?

[ChildofChrist]

Once for AA then again several times for another group that followed the same handbook geared towards the interest of the group...for SA. While there were mostly women there, I had wondered if our church would be so inclined to meeting the needs of the community by 'hosting' a meeting place. I believe of all the churches I've been to visit, perhaps 2 of them would.

Thing is, most victims only require a few months to get over the hurtles. But to keep the group available, one would really need to attend that once or twice a month meeting to keep the cohesiveness so new victims could visit and find the support needed.

[BigMark]

I went to a few meetings to help me quit pot. I put the principles into my life and have been sober since 1/1/1997. I don't go to meetings either. I think it works but you have to do the steps. I don't like saying "I'm a pot addict". I'm not, at least not anymore thanks to the power of Jesus. It's too negative. 

[BigMark]

There are certain sins that are nothing but a joke to many people. Anger issues, food addictions, etc. Bring these up in SS class and you'll think they're watching a Seinfeld show by the way they'll be laughing. In answer to you original question Stan, no, I do not believe that our church will ever be that accepting. 

[BigMark]

Once for AA then again several times for another group that followed the same handbook geared towards the interest of the group...for SA. While there were mostly women there, I had wondered if our church would be so inclined to meeting the needs of the community by 'hosting' a meeting place. I believe of all the churches I've been to visit, perhaps 2 of them would.

Thing is, most victims only require a few months to get over the hurtles. But to keep the group available, one would really need to attend that once or twice a month meeting to keep the cohesiveness so new victims could visit and find the support needed.

I was in SA for awhile myself. I ended up being cured by Jesus. BTW, the church I attend in Longwood FL had an AA meeting once a week for awhile. They don't meet anymore. I don't know what happened though.

[GayatfootofCross]

There are certain sins that are nothing but a joke to many people. Anger issues, food addictions, etc. Bring these up in SS class and you'll think they're watching a Seinfeld show by the way they'll be laughing. In answer to you original question Stan, no, I do not believe that our church will ever be that accepting. 

I see you are new! God Bless you and look forward to more of your posts. It is not easy being honest about ourselves to others in a Church setting. I hope this is indicative of your future sharing.

I am blessed by what I read so far from you.

[BigMark]

I was on the site before under another handle, but something got messed up, so I started over. Yes, what you read is the real me! 

[Ted]

I have been an AA from 1976 to 1979, then continuously since February 3, 1986. Decided that I needed to do some more "research". February 15, 1986 was the day I was commissioned a police officer.  I went out hung-over and realized that booze and police work didn't mix.  I wouldn't be able to help my partner if the situation ever went south.  So I stopped.  And stayed stopped.

The comments about AA are spot-on.

Alcoholics take their disease seriously, for "To drink is to die."  AA has probably saved more lives than, ... oh, you know.

AA has one-liners. There is an Android app called "Slogans" that delivers, well, slogans. Examples:

"The will of God will never take you where the grace of God will not protect you."

"One step at a time."

"God is never late."

The "Big Book" of Alcoholics Anonymous shows its way to recovery.  As we say at AA: "The Big Book costs about the same as a fifth, but it lasts a lot longer."  The first time I read the Big Book, I thought: "They're telling my story! I don't have to put on a front. I can be honest."  Things that could/would never come out in church, owing to behavioural expectations.  In AA meetings I heard people being honest.  One memorable meeting was a youth meeting with candle light. It was in the basement of a Lutheran church. One 13-year-old girl told of tricking for booze and drugs. Another man told of a friend who blew out his brains with a .38.  Real people, real problems, ...and most importantly... real solutions. You find the gamut of human emotion at an AA meeting, from the lowest to the highest.

Probably the most important part of the Big Book is Chapter 5, "How it Works". link(Chapter 5)

I (heart) AA!